261 réponses à ce sujet

[ZoliCs]

@Zolics: Looks pretty solid although again your not going to be able to mitigate incoming damage by holding constant threat. I haven't experimented with Bodyguard a whole lot so I'd be curious what your experience is. I can see the synergy if Bodyguard can hit on your Guard and if the %damage you soak for your teammates is significant.

Yes, that's why I thought I'll pick up Bodyguard to save my fragile teammates

Also I just unlocked her so no experience with Bodyguard, I'll get on lvling her asap

[Saboteur-6]

No you just subtly tell everyone that thinks otherwise is a hater. That is after a post saying how you must play or you simply don't understand this game/templars. You have obviously never played any other class or not enough. The role you are telling templars to be is the role they are one of the worst at of any class that has an AoE of some kind.

 

I'm not subtly saying anything. I'm saying that people in this thread that have already decided that the Templars aren't worth bringng along are selling the class short. You can say what you want, play how you want, I don't really care. I'm trying to reach people new to the game/class that might see all of this Templar backlash and be deterred from trying the class out or in bringing a Templar along. Tier list elitism holds back the evolution of a class. Your quote, "The role you are telling templars to be is the role they are one of the worst at of any class that has an AoE of some kind." is an example of that mindset. How is this true when a Templar can consistently alpha nuke spawns in addition to whatever other DPS your team is doing?

 

I'm interested in exploring the viability of the class and encourgaing people playing the character. That's the point of the OP and my more recent post. You don't like the nuke combo. Awesome. If your only point is that there's other classes that have shorter cooldown AoE's so the Templar isn't fun / effective for you then that's your deal. I define success in this game  as completing the damn mode with everyone alive, not having everything min/max'd out to the point that the combat becomes rote, redundant, and all challenge is eliminated. Some people get off on that. That's fine. My point is that because a character isn't "top-tier" doesn't mean that the team can't be successful and reach the end goal.

 

Do you not play fighting games? Just because a character isn't top-tier doesn't mean that they're automatically unviable. **** man I guess all teams should just be 4 Arcane Warriors right?

[PvtNiss]

**** man I guess all teams should just be 4 Arcane Warriors right?

 

No way man. We should have a DPS leggo, tank necromancer, supportive buffing assassin, and a reaver that throws rocks. As long as they're having fun.

[Saboteur-6]

No way man. We should have a DPS leggo, tank necromancer, supportive buffing assassin, and a reaver that throws rocks. As long as they're having fun.

 

Whatever man. Now you're being deliberately trolly and reductive again. And again, whats the harm if people play a class build unconventionally AND the team is still succesfull? How does that bother you? That's what I'm saying man. If the team gets the job done and they're playing well with one another using who they want how they want then who does it hurt? It's funny how you're accusing me of being all "play this game / class the way I say so or else" when you're doing the exact same thing except magnified because you're discourgaing people from bringing along classes that they're interested in playing.

[PvtNiss]

I'm discouraging people from becoming like these idiots that enter my game and cuss me out when I blow up all the mobs in front of their "dps templar". You keep saying people play unconventionally and the team is still succesful, enter perilous and carry please. But not my game.

 

In my eyes your post started with saying people are confused, new and unknowing. You will educate them. This is followed up by a message about how to play burst DPS templar, and finished with "anyone that says this doesn't work is hating".

 

So you set yourself up nicely to make anyone to start an arguement labelled hater, here's your hate. I disagree. There are points you mentioned I agree with too sure. Templars are a fine addition and shouldn't be sold short. And I'm not saying you should play the way I say or else, I'm just saying you should play it the way it's functioning best and what it's pretty much intended for. You say I'd discourage people from bringing along classes that they're interested in playing and I would have to say you are correct sir. I will encourage you to bring the toolset you're interested in playing because it seems it has a different nametag on their class. Still waiting on the devs to realise their mistake and make spellpurge combo not deal detonation damage to non mages and demons by the way.

[PurpGuy1]

I think it's kinda like this

 

Templar can AoE, but someone else does it better

Templar can Tank, but someone else does it better

Templar can single target DPS, but someone else does it better

 

So the question at this point is:  Templar can party buff, but can someone else does it better?

[Saboteur-6]

I'm discouraging people from becoming like these idiots that enter my game and cuss me out when I blow up all the mobs in front of their "dps templar". You keep saying people play unconventionally and the team is still succesful, enter perilous and carry please. But not my game.

 

In my eyes your post started with saying people are confused, new and unknowing. You will educate them. This is followed up by a message about how to play burst DPS templar, and finished with "anyone that says this doesn't work is hating".

 

So you set yourself up nicely to make anyone to start an arguement labelled hater, here's your hate. I disagree. There are points you mentioned I agree with too sure. Templars are a fine addition and shouldn't be sold short. And I'm not saying you should play the way I say or else, I'm just saying you should play it the way it's functioning best and what it's pretty much intended for. You say I'd discourage people from bringing along classes that they're interested in playing and I would have to say you are correct sir. I will encourage you to bring the toolset you're interested in playing because it seems it has a different nametag on their class. Still waiting on the devs to realise their mistake and make spellpurge combo not deal detonation damage to non mages and demons by the way.

 

 

 

Well toolbag randoms that cuss you out for nuking spawns and being good at the game is on them as a person. I agree that's ridicuous. Some people are playing multiplayer to top leaderboards, steam roll through challenges, and whatever else their personal goal is. It can super annoying if their personal agenda clashes with yours or the rest of the team.

 

To be clear, my comment about haters is in direct reference to people leaning towards a mindset of "don't bring a Templar or I'll kick you" or "other classes do it better so don't bring a Templar". Open criticism and exploration of the class is encouraged, it's the elitist mentality I want to discourage ESPECIALLY to people new to the game. Specifically in the context of this thread which is meant to explore Templar build viablity. I agree with you Viable is not equal to Top-Tier but does not need to be an "lol auto-kick gtfo".

 

I should clarify that I'm not basing my observations solely on Perilous viability and is meant for Routine/Threatening. I honestly don't play on Perilous often and agree if THAT's the difficulty you're playing on, the tier discrepency is more pronounced and more optimized classes can be ideal over another. I want to point out that being Perilous viable is a specific endgame conversation and requires a specific context including endgame unique gear. My advice was general advice for people cutting their teeth with the game and trying to figure out the class.

[GrommitSmit]

Thanks to both Myala and Saboteur-6 for these posts. I have been trying out the Templar and really like her character concept and tone, voice actor's accent, and potential group utility. I have struggled to find a way to play the class effectively, so based on the advice from you both I have a better idea of how to Temp. Cheers!

Also Myala could you please post your build with passives or point me to where it is posted, cause it sounds like my speed.

[HappySchwagg]

Still waiting on the devs to realise their mistake and make spellpurge combo not deal detonation damage to non mages and demons by the way.

 

 

I've been playing Templar quite a bit since release and I don't care for the combo build much either, and agree that it should probably be changed.  However, I would much rather them leave spell purge alone and change wrath of heaven since having a large aoe combo finisher is something only 2 classes have as far as I know and since the other is the Keeper's Dispel, which is rarely if ever taken.  Keeping the AOE detonator would give the Templar something that she does better than the Legionnaire, especially with organised teams.  They could instead make Wrath of Heaven a knockdown, which would maintain it as a crowd control but would no longer be a primer for combos, or, even better, change it to another support focused ability like a way to negate ranged attacks for a period of time.

 

 

I don't HATE the combo build but i do have some issues with it, one being a severe lack of interesting gameplay.  Run into mob, activate WoH, activate SP, isn't the most compelling gameplay for me.  Another issue is that it essentially sacrifices a whole party member to do 1 combo, every 20 or so seconds.  The other classes that bring aoe dps, are also doing other things.  That ele isn't just casting firestorm and then sitting afk for twenty seconds.  Also, I think the Templar is actually one of the more versatile classes and this build sacrifices 2 slots (+ shield wall or you die, so that leaves one slot) and basically all of your stamina for that one thing.

 

The biggest reason though is just mathematical, my Payback Strike is an aoe cleave of all enemies in front of me, every 8 seconds that, with my axe, hits for 950-1500 dmg at a cost of 35 stamina and also serves as a stun break.  I can use Payback Strike 3 times (2850-4500 damage) for every single WoH/SP combo.  Payback Strike is at the top of the skill tree, only takes up one slot on my bar and I have enough to stamina/skill slots/skill points to spare that i can also tank very effectively, or support, or utilize the versatility I mentioned earlier and do some combination of support/tank/dps, and do it well.

 

As far as showing new players something they can do, there's nothing wrong with that, BUT, it does introduces some pretty terrible habits.  Such as running to the middle of the room and surrounding yourself with enemies, burning all of your stamina, and kiting aggro'd mobs back into your squishies and out of the aoe's they placed on them.

[Myala]

Besides the passives needed to get WoH I have Turn The Bolt, Trust the Steel, Turn the Blade, Adamant, Mage Slayer, Flow of Battle, Deep Reserves, and Valiant. I also did not upgrade Shield Wall but I did upgrade Horn of Valor and WoH and Purge.

notable ones I did not choose are Resilence and Biggest Threat. In my experience both of these made no difference or did not work in perilous. Archers and Elementalists draw crazy agro. Once while I had biggest threat I opened up a treasure room and all the spiders passed me and went into a completely different room to hit the elementalist. He was mad .

Also, did not get bulwark because I could not notice any difference.

Valiant was my very last skill I chose. It was tough deciding which passive to get last. I did notice an increase in my survivability from getting this though.

[Credit2team]

Attack - You do realize the Templar in multiplayer is female right? And rather cheery at that

her name is belinda

[Shinnyshin]

People complaining about Stamina issues need to take the +Stamina and +Willpower passives in Divine. She has plenty of Stamina and I have a ton of success running...[Templar Guide]

I'm astounded nobody else has pointed this out.  You do realize that Willpower doesn't give Stamina anymore, right?  It has literally 0 effect on your resource pool for any class in single or multiplayer.  I'm...not sure how much this compromises your guide.

[GrommitSmit]

Thanks, Myala. Unfortunately I already took the Shield Wall upgrade, but otherwise I will try out your build before first promote.

notable ones I did not choose are Resilence and Biggest Threat. In my experience both of these made no difference or did not work in perilous. Archers and Elementalists draw crazy agro. Once while I had biggest threat I opened up a treasure room and all the spiders passed me and went into a completely different room to hit the elementalist. He was mad .

I forgot to post this in the bugs threads, but Biggest Threat seems not to work when the other members of the party, especially Mages, also take Aggro reduction passives. Now that my weekend group has leveled some and we all have the +/- Aggro passives, most melee mobs tend to run right past our Legionnaire and head straight for my Keeper and the Archer. Not sure if this is just due to proximity not giving the server enough time to calculate Aggro... It usually tends to happen if we stack up near a corner or door with enemies directly on the other side, so I can Barrier with Keeper right when we engage mobs. Probably a faux pas on our part, but we corner/door stack like a PnP D&D group.

[Myala]

Good to know I'm not crazy with biggest threat.

I could see someone not taking Valiant and taking the upgraded shield wall for more maneuverability . I only noticed a slight increase in survivability. If you are used the the mobility, sticking with the upgrade may be better.

[PvtNiss]

I'm astounded nobody else has pointed this out.  You do realize that Willpower doesn't give Stamina anymore, right?  It has literally 0 effect on your resource pool for any class in single or multiplayer.  I'm...not sure how much this compromises your guide.

I read over it so fast I didn't notice and assumed he meant Deep Reserves passive. But good point Willpower in this game increases attack for all classes and magic defense both by 0.5% per point. Only a necklace will get your stamina up from 100 to max 150 afaik.

 

Ran into 2 more templars today using BB at the start of a fight a mile away from the mobs. This skill really needs to change in mechanics or description.

[Myala]

My build will totally change if I ever get Caliban though. Might make bodyguard worth it. All that health on kill!!

[Saboteur-6]

@ Shinnston / PvtNis: Good point on the +Willpower input. Thanks. To answer your question it doesn't compromise the build at all. WoH/Unbowed/Purge works fine with the Deep Reserves passive as a kicker.

@Suzuki Method: Paybackstrike is indeed potent and I struggle with wanting to run it over the nuke combo. I'd consider dropping Unbowed for it if / when I can mitigate through other methods like the Caliban's +health on kill.

@Myala : I'm absolutely salivating for the Caliban mainly for the reasons I listed above.

[killsion]

Ran with a buddy running with the combo, shield wall, and payback strike. The guy is in love with payback strike, so I think I'm gonna go for it next promo as well. Breaking out of DCs panic seems super useful too.

[Saboteur-6]

Ran with a buddy running with the combo, shield wall, and payback strike. The guy is in love with payback strike, so I think I'm gonna go for it next promo as well. Breaking out of DCs panic seems super useful too.

That's tempting but my only reservation is the lack of survivability and the fact that you need to soak a hit to get the damage buff for payback strike. How durable does your friend feel on Threatening?

[killsion]

That's tempting but my only reservation is the lack of survivability and the fact that you need to soak a hit to get the damage buff for payback strike. How durable does your friend feel on Threatening?

 

He was pretty much untouchable. Tanked DC all by himself, never really took much damage. Fairly certain a hit to guard counts as taking a hit as well, or at least I know a barrier hit does. I watched him and frankly was really impressed how he seemed to take so little damage, and neither me or him seemed to figure out how he was taking so little. He was certainly good with Shield Walling, but even Templar commander doing the big spin attack only hit him for like 30 damage I think he mentioned. Somehow his frontal melee defense was through the roof.

[Kaedrin]

I've lucked out and picked up Caliban, a 5% life on kill ring, and a 30% duration on Horn of Valor ring so I've been debating a few Templar builds.

Purge/WoH/Unbowed/ShieldWall or
HornValor/PaybackStrike/Unbowed/Challenge or
Purge/WoH/HornValor/Unbowed

Maybe Challenge for Stam regen instead of Unbowed



I don't really plan to play on Perilous much since I usually PuG and I've found Unbowed quite useful to date.

[veramis]

Imo, if you aren't doing perilous, you could go with the third option. I personally really hate horn of valor, 1. because it sounds SO BAD, and 2. it has a bit too long animation delay for my liking.

 

I think you would enjoy the first option most because you would be able to do quite a lot of tanking with it, cast the occasional combo, and then stab things to death with your OP weapon.

 

I just saw you wrote challenge instead of unbowed. NO NO NO. NO! Challenge is super weak, and there's some quirks with how warrior aggro works so that so long as you get up in a mob's face enough they will lock onto you until they die. Unbowed is what you want.

[Kaedrin]

Challenge would be for the Stam regen if needed, not for taunting. If Stam wasn't an issue I'd use the combo with Payback and Unbowed lol.

[veramis]

With unbowed you will rarely need to block except against the boss, and imo, you will generate quite more guard with unbowed+slashing for stamina+blocking than with challenge for stamina+blocking. If I had to choose between unbowed and shield wall, I would pick unbowed without hesitation, because of how good unbowed is. The templar does not have many options for building guard, and unbowed is the best it has.

 

If you want to go more offensive, you could try combo/unbowed/payback strike, but you'll have some difficulty tanking the boss compared to using shield wall.

[Chaz Darkbane]

It really bothers me the Templar doesn't have access to War Cry :'(