261 réponses à ce sujet

[The Allslayer]

I have promoted the Templar 3 times now and I'm on my 4th play through.  I have been using the WoH/Purge combo, Horn of Valor and either Payback Strike/Shield Bash as my 4th.  I love the combo and will probably always have it in my builds.  And while I think the Horn of Valor is a very powerful skill, I just.. can.. not.. listen.. to.. it.. anymore.  So I've been contemplating what other 2 skills I should bring with my Templar.

 

This play through I went with Payback Strike and Challenge.  My thinking being that I could taunt a single target, build a little guard, debuff him by 20% and then my payback strike will stun the taunted enemy.  It works ok but meh.

 

I'm looking forward to promoting again because I want to replace Challenge with Bodyguard.  Has anyone used bodyguard?  How did it work?  Was it useful?

 

My thought process being.. Use Bodyguard to mitigate 50% damage done to teammate and resist 50% of that damage.  Now this is damage done to your Templar so this should in turn active the 200% (400% with upgrade) damage bonus to payback strike while protecting weaker teammates.  It will also open up the "unyielding" passive.  Does anyone have any experience with Bodyguard?

 

Bodyguard only works for nearby teamates, a circle follows you around its about the same size as blessed blades (maybe a little bigger) didn't seem very useful from what I saw (never used it myself)

[Saboteur-6]

Bodyguard only works for nearby teamates, a circle follows you around its about the same size as blessed blades (maybe a little bigger) didn't seem very useful from what I saw (never used it myself)

 

I played around with it but at this point I just prefer the Horn.

[themageguy]

I tend to prefer the wrath, purge, shield wall and the horn.

However, if she had access to Rally, good bye horn or shield wall.

[Chaz Darkbane]

I tend to prefer the wrath, purge, shield wall and the horn.

However, if she had access to Rally, good bye horn or shield wall.

 

In all honesty I feel like Rally, depending on the cooldown could really fix a lot of the Templars problems. Giving everyone those buffs over time and then using horn will be a huge boon to your team.

[TormDK]

No one is saying that the support aspect isn't working (So the Templar Tree), however the Sentinel tree is sub-par as it is right now, and thus needs the attention.

 

However, I will also make a note regarding the animations. Abilties need to fire right away, now whenever the animation plays out - especially for the WoH stun since the radius is quite small.

 

This is not a unique templar issue though. (For example; Why can't keepers keep moving while having the barrier cast circle out? Too hard for console players to aim or what? Silly design decision)

[Deatonis]

Templar is legit god tier, you just have to know what you're doing. Also brutes are easy with templar if you can counter how they act/react. 

[Chaz Darkbane]

Templar is legit god tier, you just have to know what you're doing. Also brutes are easy with templar if you can counter how they act/react. 

I feel like I am going to regret this but shoot, why is the Templar "God tier"

[phoenix fang55]

I went with a tankier build myself, not sure about all the passives I took, but in the second tree I aimed for any that help defense, and in the first tree I aimed for those that give bonuses to entire party.

 

Active Skills

Shield Wall-of course

Unbowed-This is great for when surrounded by large groups or when things are knocked down, stunned, frozen, or just not targeting you at the moment. There's plenty of time I can get full guard from this.

Line In the Sand-If working with a good team, you chokepoint every encounter, enemies get stuck in front of templar and just get wailed on by everyone.

Wrath of Heaven-Stun and heavy damage for demons, not to mention can be detonated

 

Basic strategy, run in, lay down line in the sand at a chokepoint as ranged chars draw threat, enemies get caught and you used unbowed as you wail on them, they switch aggro to you and you use wrath of heaven to stun them and wail on them, and if there's any left, thats when you throw in some shield wall and let your teamates have the rest of the glory. I've run this build on threatening without taking a single bit of actual health damage for an entire game, including the boss fight.

[Saboteur-6]

Love to see the Belinda love y'all. I've been trying other classes after I hit 100 completed ops with her but, she's still awesome to come back to. There seems to be a reluctance in people playing Warriors so I love joining pugs that get all hype when you join. So many people want to run DPS. It's all shared experience people.

[gay_wardens]

I feel like I am going to regret this but shoot, why is the Templar "God tier"

 

oh i dont know.

 

maybe being strong against demons is a start?

[TormDK]

I really really wish that the Purge/WoH combo (Aside from the Horn) was not all Templars had to offer.

 

I don't see the reason why the decent abilities are soooo stacked on the templar tree compared with the Sentinel tree.

 

 

oh i dont know.

 

maybe being strong against demons is a start?

 

Sure, at level 12 you're about as good as you get since you'd have buffed WoH/Purge and Horn going for you, but then the demons are not a big thing to begin with (Save for the commander). The most "dangerous" of them is the Despair demon, and only because it tends to "jump" just out out your WoH stun range due to the slow animation.

 

Templars need to have their Sentinel tree looked at, badly. 

[TormDK]

We can discuss further once Templars have reliable AoE threat generation abilities - untill then I don't see much merit in purposely hamping yourself,

[Saboteur-6]

I did not say tank. I said leader role. No one talks about it because of the "Holy Trinity" nonsense.

 

Tanks, also known as the defender, works as you say: Generate threat, attract attention, then stay alive.

 

A leader primarily supports the party by aiding allies, and making enemies more vulnerable to attack. This is typically done via damage bonus/reduction or healing. Leaders are team buff/enemy debuff roles. While there are "leader tank" roles, like the classic Paladin class from some RPG universes, that is a hybrid.

 

Again, you are further demonstrating that a Leader video probably should be my next Build Guide. No one really seems to understand that role.

 

So many people don't understand these tank variations and carry around this expectation of every Warrior throwing out taunts and holding threat the entire match. It's a surprising amount. I'm personally glad that not all Warriors play like the Legionnaire or that a Legionnaire isn't vital for every team setup.

[TormDK]

Apart from the horn, and prehaps Cutting Word (provided of course Templars had AoE Threat capabilities), there are no worthwhile buffs the Templar can provide to the group. And while the Horn bonus is nice, it is unfortunately in the Templar tree along with all the other goodies.

 

You are not a tank if enemies are not hitting you.

 

While using corridors and chokepoints can be utilized (For Line of Sight pulling mostly), without aggro control, nothing stops the mobs from beelining away from you.

 

Also, it requires groups so slow down their pace to accomidate you, which isn't how it should be in a fast paced game like this.

 

Also, not that it matters at all in this game discussion, I've been tanking in pretty much every MMO released on the western market since 98'. I know full well of the hybrid nature of the Paladin but lets not bring that into it since the Templar and classic Paladin share nothing in common except being some sort of fantasy Knight.

[Saboteur-6]

Man, combat doesn't revolve around the necessity of threat management in this game at that level that you think it does. You seem biased against the Templar because it clashes with your own expectations of what you thought combat was going to be like. I see this a lot and for whatever reason it's leveled as a criticism and fault of the Templar class. Try and keep an open mind about it and you'll have fun with more classes and setups.

 

I'll shout it from the mountain tops until people understand that this game revolves around two things: Damage output, and Damage mitigation. Aggro tanking is only ONE of the MANY ways in how to handle damage mitigation in combat.

[TormDK]

Sure, but damage migration is not something the templar can provide other than through WoH's stun (Well, I guess upgraded Payback strike), and if you are going that route, you may as well just blow the stunned mobs up with the standard combo.

 

My chief complaint is the Sentinel tree specifically. 

 

Lets take Bodyguard for instance.

 

Seems a decent ability on paper, I mean we all want to help our group the best possible way right?

 

Except the Templar has no passive way of regaining health to offset the damage absorbed, which then mean you either have to have a heal on kill weapon, or accessory to even consider it, not to mention Bodyguard's limited range which makes it even worse since your group has to be quite near you for it to work at all.

 

I wouldn't even consider the WoH/Purge combo if Unbowed was WarCry and Bodyguard had some passives (Prehaps upgraded Bodyguard) that allowed for health regen, prehaps like a smaller version of Rampage from the Reaver tree, because that does what it says on the tin.

[Saboteur-6]

I've warmed to the idea of Warcry in the stead of Unbowed but I don't know how likely it is that BioWare would start shuffling around skills at that level. Bodyguard looks to be the most effective when used with Line in the Sand. Defender Templar uses positional body blocking to mitigate incoming damage and to give backline DPS safety. Defender Templar doesn't mesh as well with melee rogues/mages but does just fine with ranged.

[TormDK]

Again, sure - for the room of shame on 5/5 - You'll find me in the front simply shield blocking to get the ranged cover untill the boss shows up.

 

For all other rooms though, it's quite hard to simply relay on body blocking for tanking, without slowing the group down significantly.

 

We don't have the option of simply running in there and get stuck in like the legionaire does. If we had Warcry this could change dramatically, all of a suddon Line in the Sand would be worthwhile for creating cover (Similar to the discussion regarding Necromancer and Icewall) because we could then force mobs to engage us, at our chokepoint, rather than hope RNGsus bless us with a perfect setup PuG that listens and understands.

[Drasca]

I should thank you though. You just gave me my next Build Guide for the Templar.

 

So much hate from noobs. Care to hint what playstyle you're going to explain next? I for one am appreciative you're doing the explaining. It needs to be written.

[TormDK]

Thats all very nice Mortiel, but as I note if requires the groups playstyle to accomidate your special snowflake variant, that is quite poor design in my opinion.

 

Also, apart from Bodyguard every single one of those abilities listed is located in the Divine tree - which simply indicates what I have said all along - the Sentinel tree needs to be looked at.

 

Warcry specifically could open up for more use of the powers within the sentinel tree, but I can't see a single good reason to even consider going as far down as bodyguard in the Sentinel tree as it is right now because of what you'd have to give up in the Divine tree. Regardless of how passive-aggressive you become with your whole "leader" shebang.

 

5% chance to weaken - big whoop. If it wasn't because it was a requirement to get further down the tree, everyone would skip this. Mobs do not have enough hp even on perilous for this to be even remotely interesting.

 

Without aggro control options, Blessed Blades is more of a hindrance to the team than a blessing. Having to stay close and in range for a circle that doesn't move paired with the long duration / recycle time of the skill, plus the option of getting OHK'ed by the demon commander on 5/5 due to the proximity of everyone huddling together means it's a skill everyone quickly forgets about. Plus of course Horn of Valour's faster recycle time, better buff and the fact that it has unlimited range means Blessed Blades is obsolete by level 12 if you are going down the divine tree anyhow.

 

I'm all for differenciated party roles, but the tools needed to go a proper job needs to be there. The Divine tree is heavily stacked against the Sentinel tree, which leads to shoeholing because of the options you'd give up to make yourself a special snowflake. Bioware needs to do some ability rebalancing on this. The easiest is of course replacing unbowed for warcry, and prehaps shuffle around the abilities that currently sit in the Divine tree to round out both trees, as I see it - but I would also like Bodyguard to be the "end" talent in Sentinel, and have the tree end as a reverse "T" so that it could open up for a passive Heal on Kill ability that could help offset the damage absorbed by Bodyguard, plus have the range increased as well (Or made zone wide as Horn of Valour)

[TormDK]

Thats all very nice Mortiel, but as I note if requires the groups playstyle to accomidate your special snowflake variant, that is quite poor design in my opinion.

 

Also, apart from Bodyguard every single one of those abilities listed is located in the Divine tree - which simply indicates what I have said all along - the Sentinel tree needs to be looked at.

 

Warcry specifically could open up for more use of the powers within the sentinel tree, but I can't see a single good reason to even consider going as far down as bodyguard in the Sentinel tree as it is right now because of what you'd have to give up in the Divine tree. Regardless of how passive-aggressive you become with your whole "leader" shebang.

 

5% chance to weaken - big whoop. If it wasn't because it was a requirement to get further down the tree, everyone would skip this. Mobs do not have enough hp even on perilous for this to be even remotely interesting.

 

Without aggro control options, Blessed Blades is more of a hindrance to the team than a blessing. Having to stay close and in range for a circle that doesn't move paired with the long duration / recycle time of the skill, plus the option of getting OHK'ed by the demon commander on 5/5 due to the proximity of everyone huddling together means it's a skill everyone quickly forgets about. Plus of course Horn of Valour's faster recycle time, better buff and the fact that it has unlimited range means Blessed Blades is obsolete by level 12 if you are going down the divine tree anyhow.

 

I'm all for differenciated party roles, but the tools needed to go a proper job needs to be there. The Divine tree is heavily stacked against the Sentinel tree, which leads to shoeholing because of the options you'd give up to make yourself a special snowflake. Bioware needs to do some ability rebalancing on this. The easiest is of course replacing unbowed for warcry, and prehaps shuffle around the abilities that currently sit in the Divine tree to round out both trees, as I see it - but I would also like Bodyguard to be the "end" talent in Sentinel, and have the tree end as a reverse "T" so that it could open up for a passive Heal on Kill ability that could help offset the damage absorbed by Bodyguard, plus have the range increased as well (Or made zone wide as Horn of Valour)