49 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Title says it all... Everywhere I go, mostly here in BSN, people seem to hate Leliana. For me, it was a very good Character, even better than Morrigan herself, because each time I was on Camp, Leliana had something to share, unlike Morrigan... Even when you lock in with her romance...

 

So, Why all the hate? I already completed the Urn of Sacred Ashes, Redcliffe, the Magi Tower and the Brecillian Forest, all with her, because of her skills as a Rogue and she was a very good companion, altough just a little weak, because I didn't invest on her much.

[Krypplingz]

Because Leliana wants to put your eyelashes in a jar. The BSN is very possessive over it's eyelashes. 

Mostly I think it's because of her outspoken belief in the Maker. Alot of people get hostile towards religious people, often due to bad encounters when it comes to real life religion. Then there is the fact that she's got her own DLC, a snug plot armor and is becoming a very noticeable person in the Dragon Age lore. She shares this thing with another nice, blue skinned girl from the Mass Effect universe, so she gets some shared hate from there. She's also been brought back to life, which did rustle some jimmies. 

Then there is this really strange fear of people watching you while you sleep...

 

But Leliana also has some fans and plenty of people who are neutral about her. The haters are just more outspoken and noticeable, since humans tend to notice negative things with more ease than the positive things. Personally I find her rather enjoyable. She's got a sweet voice, has some good stories and is good at sticking arrows into the eyes of my enemies. Like slim missile space hamsters. On fire. 

[Merle McClure II]

Aye, from what I can tell, it's mostly because the people have an irrational hatred of all things Chantry. To be fair her "vision" did put me off a little as well until I came to the realization that it was probably all convenient lie to give her an excuse to tag along with the surviving Grey Wardens and that the only "real" difference between hardened and unhardened Leliana was her feeling comfortable enough to let her false front fade away. 

[elephunky]

I have friends who absolutely loved her. I was a bit unsure about her as a character and found her a bit sickly sweet at first but she has grown on me.

[jros83]

1. Female gamers hate her for not being a "tough girl" like Morrigan, while 2. males hate her for not being the super-hot exotic bad girl like Morrigan. And others 3. hate her because of her religious convictions. I will break down how this is totally asinine.

 

1. Stop confusing being a royal you-know-what with being a "strong woman." That's a dangerous misconception. Plus, this is just a game.
2. Women like that are typically just affecting everything. Plus, this is just a game.

3. This is a fictional universe composed of pixels on a screen. Save your hipster social media crusading millennial generation bologna for Twitter and Facebook. Plus, this is just a game.

 

TL:DR,

 

People dislike Leliana because they seem to have a bizarre inability to separate real life from fiction and impose real life biases on fictional things rather than just enjoying them for what they are. Leliana's timid nature is actually not timid at all knowing her background, and her growth into a religious believer has reason to it. But the females who confuse being a b---h with being strong (and therefore judge Leli to be "weak" while holding Morrigan up on some pedestal), and the social media fashionable atheists need to rant against something.

[straykat]

Hate? She's great... one of my favorites the minute I played.

 

But I do remember people making fun of the "French chick", before when it was first released.

 

 

Eyelashes. She's just being cute. She's not Freddy Kruegger.

[Ghost Gal]

I don't dislike Leliana, but I don't really care for her either.

 

There's a lot of appealing things about her, they just don't appeal to me.

 

1. Female gamers hate her for not being a "tough girl" like Morrigan, while 2. males hate her for not being the super-hot exotic bad girl like Morrigan. And others 3. hate her because of her religious convictions. I will break down how this is totally asinine.

 

I don't know what forums you've been frequenting, but Morrigan has her share of haters too. Just like Leliana, she's a rather divisive character. Some people love her to bits, some people can't stand her. For every Morrigan fan who thinks Leliana is too weak, too "girl next door," too religious, there's a Leliana fan who thinks Morrigan is a complete b*tch, too cold and aloof, too stupid evil, too slutty, too whatever. Leliana may draw some asinine criticism, but so does Morrigan. It's human nature.

 

Besides, no matter how much you love a character, not everyone's gonna love that character too. People have their reasons. Some are asinine, yes, but many have perfectly valid reasons that fit their own tastes and preferences. Where one person might think Leliana is perfectly sweet, another might find her too sickly sweet or saccharine. Where one might love her "girl next door" type appeal, another might not care for it. Where one might admire her religious devotion, another might be annoyed by it (or the fact that she won't stop talking about it).

 

Not all criticism against Leliana is based purely on negatively comparing her to Morrigan. Some people like or dislike her for her own merit, and that's okay.

[Illegitimus]

I don't dislike Leliana, but I don't really care for her either.

 

There's a lot of appealing things about her, they just don't appeal to me.

 

 

I don't know what forums you've been frequenting, but Morrigan has her share of haters too. Just like Leliana, she's a rather divisive character. Some people love her to bits, some people can't stand her. For every Morrigan fan who thinks Leliana is too weak, too "girl next door," too religious, there's a Leliana fan who thinks Morrigan is a complete b*tch, too cold and aloof, too stupid evil, too slutty, too whatever. Leliana may draw some asinine criticism, but so does Morrigan. It's human nature.

 

More likely two or three.  Morrigan does have a larger hatedom than Leliana.  

 

1. Female gamers hate her for not being a "tough girl" like Morrigan, while 2. males hate her for not being the super-hot exotic bad girl like Morrigan. And others 3. hate her because of her religious convictions. I will break down how this is totally asinine.

 

1. Stop confusing being a royal you-know-what with being a "strong woman." That's a dangerous misconception. Plus, this is just a game.
2. Women like that are typically just affecting everything. Plus, this is just a game.

3. This is a fictional universe composed of pixels on a screen. Save your hipster social media crusading millennial generation bologna for Twitter and Facebook. Plus, this is just a game.

 

TL:DR,

 

People dislike Leliana because they seem to have a bizarre inability to separate real life from fiction and impose real life biases on fictional things rather than just enjoying them for what they are. Leliana's timid nature is actually not timid at all knowing her background, and her growth into a religious believer has reason to it. But the females who confuse being a b---h with being strong (and therefore judge Leli to be "weak" while holding Morrigan up on some pedestal), and the social media fashionable atheists need to rant against something.

 

 

Frankly I'm a little baffled.  I've never heard anyone saying any of those things about Leliana.  You know it sounds almost as if you are thinking that preferring Morrigan means hating Leliana.  Leliana is not of course remotely timid in way way or shape and I don't know of anyone except you who ever called her "timid".  She's quite outgoing.  More than Morrigan.  More than anyone.  

 

Also you are way too invested for the "this is just a game" line to ring true.  

[straykat]

I'm more one of the Morrigan haters myself. She encourages a whole bunch of things I don't want to do, even for the lulz. Like sacrificing city elves for +1 Con. It's already bad enough to do that in general, but then to kick the most ghetto people when they're already down and in cages? There's nothing "exotic" about it.

 

Not into the romance aspect either.. untapping her "soft side" and all that. My playthrough feels a bit like when I was younger, obviously going after the wrong women. lol.. Pining after them and stuff. It's strange. If anything, people like Leliana resemble me. I'm a musician, had a bad life when younger, and turned to spiritual matters later. She's not the girl next door. She only wants to be, and is always tempted to fall back. Alistair is the next door type, more like.

[Mike3207]

I don't necessarily hate Leliana, but I'm also not as enamored of her as i once was. It's the suspicion that she was likely a Seeker all along and working for the Chantry all through the Blight. It leads to the thought-how much can you trust Leliana and where do her true loyalties lie? Keep her as part of the group, but don't get too close.

[Illegitimus]

I don't necessarily hate Leliana, but I'm also not as enamored of her as i once was. It's the suspicion that she was likely a Seeker all along and working for the Chantry all through the Blight. It leads to the thought-how much can you trust Leliana and where do her true loyalties lie? Keep her as part of the group, but don't get too close.

 

Wait...you consider that a drawback?  

[springacres]

I personally find Leliana to be rather like Sebastian and Bethany in DA2 - nice, but rather passive for my taste.  Which is not to say that she's either timid or weak; whichever version of her backstory you believe, either one took some guts and some serious resilience on her part.  Whatever else she is, she's a survivor, and my canon Warden thinks of her as a friend.  Morrigan, well... he's learned to respect her, even if he doesn't particularly like her. 

 

I guess what it boils down to is that I like Leliana as a character because she seems like she'd be a good friend IRL, someone I could go to for advice or as a shoulder to cry on without risking judgment.

[jros83]

If you ever need to question if I fully believe most of what I am posting, take a look at my avatar.

[Fylimar]

I didn't notice, that there were Leliana hate out there. I know, that some people find her a bit dull or they don't like her religious side, but most people seem to like her just fine. I'm not a religious person myself and I do have problems with characters like Sebastian, who tries to convert everyone and is very aggressive about it. In real life, I would have toldl him where he can shove his maker and kicked him out of the group. But Leliana is nothing like that. The only person, she is arguing with about religion is Morrigan and I think, she does that on purpose to annoy Morrigan (let's face it, our witch of the wild ask for it sometimes). She has some very diversed dialogues with all the others (and with Morri too - I like the one, where she wants to dress Morrigan like an Orlesian - I think  that was the only time, Morrigan did really freaked out, so funny).

What I like most about Leliana is, that you can disagree with her without getting dissapproval - on the contrary, she approves. I'm speaking about the elven servant dialogue, where you can really tell her off and she agrees with you and apologises. That's a great dialogue. So while I find her joining dialogue ('The Maker told me so') really creepy, Leliana is an interesting character.

[sjsharp2011]

Hate? She's great... one of my favorites the minute I played.

 

But I do remember people making fun of the "French chick", before when it was first released.

 

 

Eyelashes. She's just being cute. She's not Freddy Kruegger.

yeah she's one of my favourites as well her and Varric are my 2 favourites. Yes she's a bit religion heavy which I can see that being off putting for some but generally she's one of my favouriets who I find a pretty solid all rounder combat wise. By that I( mean she's great with Bow and arrow and also with a couple of daggers at her disposal too.

[Lady Artifice]

I like Leliana, but I think they made a few minor mistakes with her, mostly relating to overexposure.

 

1. Female gamers hate her for not being a "tough girl" like Morrigan, while 2. males hate her for not being the super-hot exotic bad girl like Morrigan. And others 3. hate her because of her religious convictions. I will break down how this is totally asinine.

 

-snip-

 

I don't agree with every one of your assertions here, but I do think this one is unfortunately true. I've seen so many female gamers express distaste for things they consider too passive in a female character, and it makes me sad how often this includes traits like compassion, a diplomatic temperament, and a love for pretty things.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't hate Leliana, I just don't particularly trust here. Especially with immense political power.

 

But even personally- Leliana is one of only 2 Bioware love interests I've ever broken up with in-character, and the only one I've done on the basis of trust. Hearing her boast about how she could seduce people who knew she could seduce them even as she talked about seducing them was a trippy meta experience of 'whoa, she's talking about me isn't she? She could be, and I'd never know.'

[sniper_arrow]

Hmmm, I thought everyone hated Loliana due to her overexposure and her death-resurrection-I'm a lyrium ghost arc if she was killed.

[ModernAcademic]

Funny how some people associate Leliana with the Chantry. Even after she makes it clear in the game that she doesn't appreciate the patronising, close-minded attitude of the Chantry sisters, nurtures several doubts about the Maker's love for all and has her own set of beliefs.

 

(Such as enjoying to kill people. According to her, it's invigorating. Does that sound like something a religious, preachy person would say?)

 

The fanbase can be quite irrational when it wants to be. Or perhaps they never did her personal quest and take her at face value. 

 

People need to pay more attention to the game they're playing. Isn't Bioware specialized in making subtle characters full of hidden subcontext?

[GoldenGail3]

She's alright in DAO. Not the most memorable character I've ever seen though.

[Fylimar]

I like Leliana, but I think they made a few minor mistakes with her, mostly relating to overexposure.

 

 

I don't agree with every one of your assertions here, but I do think this one is unfortunately true. I've seen so many female gamers express distaste for things they consider too passive in a female character, and it makes me sad how often this includes traits like compassion, a diplomatic temperament, and a love for pretty things.

 

As a female gamer, I find Leliana far more realistic and stronger than Morrigan.  Morrigan for me is the opposite of a strong female character - she is so vulnerable, that she is not even able to participate in a normal conversation without being over the top (or, to put it in a not so nice wording 'bitchy'). Morrigan wants to be seen as strong and carefree, but she is very conservative in her world view (which I always find surprising, giving, that Flemeth is her mother and Flemeth seems to be very open minded) - much more than Leliana in fact.

Don't get me wrong, both characters are well written, but for me, the stronger of the two, was always Leliana. In fact, I was surprised, that people even consider Morrigan to be strong, when her insecurities are so clear. When you befriend her, she even has a dialogue or two later on, when she started to self reflect. My characters always felt like they are Morrigans big sisters, who have to show her, how the world works.

Of the three female companions, I would consider Wynne the strongest and most down to earth one, Leliana close behind and Morrigan is still struggling to find her place. All three are very well written.

But I guess, it's a good thing to have different opinions about chaarcters and stories, or this board would get very boring soon

 

 

1. Stop confusing being a royal you-know-what with being a "strong woman." That's a dangerous misconception. Plus, this is just a game.

 

I completely agree, if someone has to resort to being bitchy, it is the opposite of being strong imo.

[MerAnne]

I don't fully agree with Fylimar, but I do agree with:

 

But I guess, it's a good thing to have different opinions about chaarcters and stories, or this board would get very boring soon

 

I don't 'hate' Leliana, but my GWs have nothing in common with her.  I'm a female gamer who has no interest in shoes, hair styles, or shopping.  Because my GWs have nothing in common with Leliana, getting through the conversations are, for me, an exercise in tedium.

[Qis]

I have one reason to hate her, that is...she is a liar...she lie from the begining to the end...Leliana fans will defend her of course, but for me it just no....

 

She's religious? Naaah, that's just one of her lies...she made up everything...even to a point she become her mask, that's her real craziness

 

She's a girly girl? Also naaaah, that's another act from her, she's a spy, she act and fooling peoples, that's her job she do everyday.

 

Marjolaine is right actually, but i kill her anyway...

[Qun00]

I have one reason to hate her, that is...she is a liar...she lie from the begining to the end...Leliana fans will defend her of course, but for me it just no....
 
She's religious? Naaah, that's just one of her lies...she made up everything...even to a point she become her mask, that's her real craziness
 
She's a girly girl? Also naaaah, that's another act from her, she's a spy, she act and fooling peoples, that's her job she do everyday.
 
Marjolaine is right actually, but i kill her anyway...

Well, Leliana didn't lie so much as just refusing to talk about her past at first.

Morrigan? Where do we begin? The first lie she tells you is that she doesn't know why Flemeth saved the Warden.

[Qis]

Well, Leliana didn't lie so much as just refusing to talk about her past at first.

Morrigan? Where do we begin? The first lie she tells you is that she doesn't know why Flemeth saved the Warden.

 

What can you expect from Morrigan? She's not a woman who act nice just want tag along with you because want your protection against her enemies, she do not act good or present herself being good whatsoever, even if she lie to you, you don't expect otherwise, her own appearance showing who she is, a Witch of the Wild...well, a WITCH...

 

But Leliana? She's not a priest, even she admit that is just because she don't want you to ask more and dig further, so she killed it by saying she don't take the vow...then she make her own version of the religion and pour it all on you, freely, because she's not a priest remember...then she talk bad about the ones who give her refuge just to convince you she's an innocent girl who get scholded by priests because of her view about God...she's lying...an outright LIE...

 

She talk about her dream, she forgot she said a vision and not a dream, you can point that out, but she counter that with more lies, so she told you about the so called dream about the darkness and flower BS...