49 réponses à ce sujet

[Fylimar]

Right - Morrigan is allowed to lie, because she is a witch (what has that to do with anything?) and Leliana is not, because she is no witch ... ... that makes no sense at all.

[Qis]

It makes sense, because what you expect from a Witch in that world based on your character prejudice about Witches?

 

So if Morrigan lie, it is not suprising, if she doing something good, it is a miracle

 

But Leliana...whatever you think about her is just her alter ego....

[ModernAcademic]

Right - Morrigan is allowed to lie, because she is a witch (what has that to do with anything?) and Leliana is not, because she is no witch ... ... that makes no sense at all.

 

Like the Qunari learning Anders is a mage in that particular quest with Ketojan.

 

Saarebas! Kill him! Cut his tongue!

 

[Illegitimus]

Well, Leliana didn't lie so much as just refusing to talk about her past at first.
 

 

Of course she lied.  She pretended her fighting skills were just the result of having been on the road as a common minstrel.  After confessing that wasn't the case, she pretended that she had been caught and imprisoned by the Orlesian authorities.  And I kind of suspect that she already had her job as a spy for the Chantry when she first showed up, given the Seeker's Circle she was wearing.  But she's nicer than Morrigan so people think less of her lies.  

[Qun00]

What can you expect from Morrigan? She's not a woman who act nice just want tag along with you because want your protection against her enemies, she do not act good or present herself being good whatsoever, even if she lie to you, you don't expect otherwise, her own appearance showing who she is, a Witch of the Wild...well, a WITCH...
 
But Leliana? She's not a priest, even she admit that is just because she don't want you to ask more and dig further, so she killed it by saying she don't take the vow...then she make her own version of the religion and pour it all on you, freely, because she's not a priest remember...then she talk bad about the ones who give her refuge just to convince you she's an innocent girl who get scholded by priests because of her view about God...she's lying...an outright LIE...
 
She talk about her dream, she forgot she said a vision and not a dream, you can point that out, but she counter that with more lies, so she told you about the so called dream about the darkness and flower BS...

At least Leliana opens up and is honest with you later on. Morrigan never reveals her agenda no matter how many times the companions question her about it.

[Qis]

At least Leliana opens up and is honest with you later on. Morrigan never reveals her agenda no matter how many times the companions question her about it.

 

If she tell you, will you take her seriously? well, she is indeed a Witch of the Wild...then talking about making baby with Old Gods souls and stuff...will you take her seriously?

 

There are enough of crazy peoples in your party talking about crazy stuff, now there's another crazy witch talking about crazy stuff, can your Warden handle it?

[Fylimar]

It makes sense, because what you expect from a Witch in that world based on your character prejudice about Witches?

 

So if Morrigan lie, it is not suprising, if she doing something good, it is a miracle

 

But Leliana...whatever you think about her is just her alter ego....

 

Sorry, but my characters usually have no predjudices against magic and magic users - especially since they only live, because a magic user saved them. So this is basically you metagaming your Warden (which is ok with me, just say so - I would never try to change someones headcanon, because that is, what makes the game speicial for most of us, I guess). Leliana didn't lie that much to me btw., not more, than any other character in the group... I guess, the only one, who is honest from the beginning, is Zevran - and he had no choice at all, being caught and threatened by your character.  Like all the other characters, she just didn't tell all about herself on the first meeting, which I find normal human behavior. She always hinted, that there is more to her story, but that she doesn't want to tell it just now. And when you get to know her better and she starts to trust you, she tells you everything. I for once was sure, she is honest

[Qun00]

If she tell you, will you take her seriously? well, she is indeed a Witch of the Wild...then talking about making baby with Old Gods souls and stuff...will you take her seriously?
 
There are enough of crazy peoples in your party talking about crazy stuff, now there's another crazy witch talking about crazy stuff, can your Warden handle it?

In a world where magic is known to be real? Absolutely.

[Qis]

In a world where magic is known to be real? Absolutely.

 

Naaah...your Warden can't handle it...just surviving the horrible origin whatever it is, then watching your comrade killed in cold blood by Duncan, then drinking Darkspawn blood and having nightmare, involved in battle with Darkspawn, then almost died on the tower betrayed by Loghain, got news that the battle is lost and everybody dead...then Arl Eamon is sick, undead attacking Redcliffe, abomination problem, seeking mages for help but Mage Tower also run by abominations, get trapped in nightmares, ect ect ect...

 

[Qun00]

All the more reason to believe that a lying witch is a lying witch.

Tis' a fucked up world.

[springacres]

If she tell you, will you take her seriously? well, she is indeed a Witch of the Wild...then talking about making baby with Old Gods souls and stuff...will you take her seriously?

 

There are enough of crazy peoples in your party talking about crazy stuff, now there's another crazy witch talking about crazy stuff, can your Warden handle it?

 

 

In a world where magic is known to be real? Absolutely.

But Morrigan doesn't know that.  She's been raised from birth to be cynical and distrustful of those around her - even of her own mother, for crying out loud.  Neither she nor Leliana trust the Warden fully, and both have what I would consider very good reasons not to.  In Morrigan's case, like I said, she was raised that way.  In Leliana's case, she was betrayed by someone she loved.  Whether or not the time spent with the Warden is sufficient for either of them to overcome that distrust will depend on a lot of things - their relationship to the Warden, their relationship to the Warden's other companions, the Warden's character, their own individual characters.

[Qun00]

Trust issues is only what prevents Morrigan from creating bonds. However, the reason why she kept her true intentions a secret had more to do with "my plan will be ruined if I spill the beans too early".

[Illegitimus]

Trust issues is only what prevents Morrigan from creating bonds. However, the reason why she kept her true intentions a secret had more to do with "my plan will be ruined if I spill the beans too early".

 

Yes it would.  If Morrigan in Lothering said "What the Grey Wardens haven't told you is that killing the Archdemon will not just kill you but destroy your soul but I have a way to avoid that" and you decided that the Wardens would never keep that kind of secret from their own and Morrigan was lying to trick you into performing a dodgy ritual, then you'd probably kick her out of the party.  So she decided to wait for you to find out from a source you'd actually trust and also until it actually became an issue.  

[SlackerBoe]

Lel has been one of my favorite companions since the first time I played DA:O. She is one of the few characters that has always been recruited, but never lost. I even harden her on my "destroy the ashes" runs so she stays in my party anyways. Even when I'm running Zevran or my warden as a rogue she stays in my camp, forever on my team. 

[Bardox9]

I don't hate Leliana exactly. She's just annoying with her emotional neediness and her endless proselytizing got real old real fast. One of the reasons I didn't really like Wynne either. I still use Leliana as my primary rouge though. Can't deny her combat skills are far better than Zev's.

 

As an LI she was just too... IDK... predictable? She just doesn't hold my interest. Morrigan on the other hand, you can never quite tell what's going on in her head. What might set her off and what might get her "engine running" so to speak. I found myself doubting that anything was going through Leliana's head most of the time. It gets a little better after she is hardened, but not much.

 

Besides, Claudia Black's voice is far more sexy 

[LorenzEffect]

I like Leliana as a character, but I'm also sick of her because of what a writer's pet she is. She's in two major instalments, she can come back from the dead, gets her own DLC, and plays a huge part in the future of Southern Thedas no matter what you do.

To be honest, the only reason I keep her as a companion is meta gaming. In-universe, none of my wardens would trust someone who says "the Maker told me to join you". Now, if she'd just said "Can I join? I want to help," that would be fine.

As for Morrigan, the biggest reason I dislike her in Origins is that she doesn't have a good reason to be evil. She just loves stomping on puppies and burning down orphanages for the thrill of it. That sort of character can be done well (HK-47 comes to mind), but not in this case.

As I said, I do like Leliana. I'm just tired of her stealing the spotlight.

[straykat]

I like Leliana as a character, but I'm also sick of her because of what a writer's pet she is. She's in two major instalments, she can come back from the dead, gets her own DLC, and plays a huge part in the future of Southern Thedas no matter what you do.

To be honest, the only reason I keep her as a companion is meta gaming. In-universe, none of my wardens would trust someone who says "the Maker told me to join you". Now, if she'd just said "Can I join? I want to help," that would be fine.

As for Morrigan, the biggest reason I dislike her in Origins is that she doesn't have a good reason to be evil. She just loves stomping on puppies and burning down orphanages for the thrill of it. That sort of character can be done well (HK-47 comes to mind), but not in this case.

As I said, I do like Leliana. I'm just tired of her stealing the spotlight.

 

I don't see her stealing it much. Morrigan is still the poster girl, but Alistair is arguably the most popular character ever. Plot wise, Leli holds the same secondary place as Zevran does, as far as romances go. They don't even get a decent farewell. I still prefer romancing Leliana, but the drama feels a lot more empty compared to Morrigan and Alistair.

 

I just see her Sister Nightingale cameos as just Bioware's way of slowly building up to Inquisition. They did that with Cass and her cartoon as well. Who else are they going to use? Leliana's a good fit for it.

 

As for dying, it's a sad fate. It's nothing for any fans to be proud of. I think people who killed her got what they want.

[Ghost Gal]

Right - Morrigan is allowed to lie, because she is a witch (what has that to do with anything?) and Leliana is not, because she is no witch ... ... that makes no sense at all.

 

I think people are more likely to give Morrigan a pass because she's pretty open about being a dishonest ******.

 

I think people (myself included) are less likely to give Leliana a pass because of her innocent good-girl act. Makes her come across as hypocritical.

 

I like Leliana as a character, but I'm also sick of her because of what a writer's pet she is. She's in two major instalments, she can come back from the dead, gets her own DLC, and plays a huge part in the future of Southern Thedas no matter what you do.

To be honest, the only reason I keep her as a companion is meta gaming. In-universe, none of my wardens would trust someone who says "the Maker told me to join you". Now, if she'd just said "Can I join? I want to help," that would be fine.

 

... Yeah, I never really cared for Leliana at all. I feel indifference bordering on apathy for her. I almost wish I did hate her or love her because at least I'd feel something, apart from mild annoyance when she's in her "preach about how wonderful the Maker is" mode. Which would come in handy since I have to see her all the time.

 

As for Morrigan, the biggest reason I dislike her in Origins is that she doesn't have a good reason to be evil. She just loves stomping on puppies and burning down orphanages for the thrill of it. That sort of character can be done well (HK-47 comes to mind), but not in this case.

 

I don't know, I thought the game made it clear that Morrigan thinks the way she does because she was raised alone in the wilderness by an emotionally abusive mother who indoctrinated her with Social Darwinist values from an early age. That is, she was never shown love or affection, and was in fact made to believe that love is frivolous, kindness is weakness, and cruelty is strength. She says in the game that she was raised to believe that "beauty and love is meaningless; power has meaning," and that she should strive for power (again, believing cruelty = strength) because it's the only thing in life worth having.

 

I think it's telling that she believes she should go around stomping puppies and burning down orphanages in the first game, when she's just left her mother for the first time. But, after running away and being away from  her mother for a significant period of time, she's much more mellow and cordial when we see her again in Witch Hunt three and a half years later, and she's even more mellow and helpful when we see her again in Inquisition ten years later. (Although she's much nicer if she has a son.)

 

One of the reasons I like Morrigan is being able to catch glimpses of her good traits beneath Flemeth's influence, and being able to encourage those good traits by befriending her.

 

To each their own though. Not everyone has to like Morrigan.

[Aren]

I still prefer romancing Leliana, but the drama feels a lot more empty compared to Morrigan and Alistair.

 

I disagree,the drama of  the romance between Leliana with an US warden is much more intense  ,both for the epilogue of DAO and her character alteration in DAI,when her bitterness and crisis of faith is clear in front of the inquisitor.

[straykat]

I disagree,the drama of  the romance between Leliana with an US warden is much more intense  ,both for the epilogue of DAO and her character alteration in DAI,when her bitterness and crisis of faith is clear in front of the inquisitor.

 

Oh it gets better in DAI (if you can call it "better"... I mean it's intense). But it seemed like Morrigan was their poster girl and the whole Redcliffe ending in DAO seems to ignore Zev and Leli.. They didn't even write a farewell kiss or something in Denerim.

 

 

On a sidenote, I think if the team was allowed to make their DA2 expansion (instead of non-fans acting like dicks and calling for death threats lol), Morrigan fans might've been happy. I bet she would have showed up. They wrote the Well of Sorrows originally for Hawke. I bet Merrill would've been there too. That could've balanced out the content Leliana got.

[Scatha]

Well, with my GW being a warrior, Leiliana is very handy for spotting traps and opening chests... truth be told, she is one of the few characters that stops hiding stuff from you pretty early on.

 

Right now I am on the road with three women: Morrigan, Leiliana and Wynne... all of which at +25 approval rate or better (Leiliana almost twice that), still looking to get through the Gauntlet puzzle of the bridge and all of my team at level 11/12 ... and Leiliana has proven to be rather valuable to the group.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Leliana is weak in combat, and the bard songs don't do much, but I love her anyway.

[JJ Likeaprayer]

People are hating on Leliana? I didn't know this! I like her very much,she's been through A LOT! But I'm still in doubt ever since I made her the new divine in DAI...she's changed,she's so cold now. Yes,I like her better in DAO...she was innocent yet unbreakable back then, now she likes to "silence" people.

[Fehria]

I used to actually really like Leliana, as the perpetual bard who knows that bards in RPGs never get enough love. Granted, I usually play a rogue, so she was never super useful in my parties, but hey, rogues are cool, right? And her stories are interesting and help flesh out the world in a cool way other than just reading codex entries.

 

The thing that kind of ruined her for me was an unfortunate incident in my last playthrough where my CE was romancing Zevran. We had a perfectly good thing going, when all of a sudden, Leliana starts throwing a fit because she can't stand me being with someone else. I remember thinking, "Excuse me? When did this become any of your business?" Then I realized I accidentally triggered her romance at some point without knowing, thinking I could talk to her like a normal human being and be her friend or something. And I couldn't even call her out on her crazy because I couldn't risk losing any plot skill points on her because I needed her high cunning. Lucky thing Zev takes heartbreak better than me

[straykat]

I used to actually really like Leliana, as the perpetual bard who knows that bards in RPGs never get enough love. Granted, I usually play a rogue, so she was never super useful in my parties, but hey, rogues are cool, right? And her stories are interesting and help flesh out the world in a cool way other than just reading codex entries.

 

The thing that kind of ruined her for me was an unfortunate incident in my last playthrough where my CE was romancing Zevran. We had a perfectly good thing going, when all of a sudden, Leliana starts throwing a fit because she can't stand me being with someone else. I remember thinking, "Excuse me? When did this become any of your business?" Then I realized I accidentally triggered her romance at some point without knowing, thinking I could talk to her like a normal human being and be her friend or something. And I couldn't even call her out on her crazy because I couldn't risk losing any plot skill points on her because I needed her high cunning. Lucky thing Zev takes heartbreak better than me

 

There was some wonkiness here, yeah.. I think there's a mod that fixes some of it.

 

Don't hold it against Leliana though!