53 réponses à ce sujet

[omgodzilla]

I'm a little surprised as to why this option is so popular. Usually, BSN is known to lean more towards the paragon/good guy morality. Are you not worried about the potential side effects of sending a group of armed barbarians into another nation? Tevinter's government is cruel and disgusting but I highly doubt that EVERY single person in Tevinter is an evil psychopath. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of normal working class people. I'm talking about the innocent peasants who are just struggling to survive. Not to mention all those slaves. If you send a horde of barbarians into Tevinter, is it not possible that innocent people could end up getting killed? What if they rape and pillage a Tevinter village before the military can hunt them all down? What about the Tevinter soldiers themselves. Do they deserve to be attacked and killed for no reason?

 

Just think about who exactly is going to suffer from this decision. A horde of barbarians won't bring down the Tevinter government so you're not doing much to them. You could however end up killing innocent people as well as creating more resentment in Tevinter towards the southern nations should they find out that the Inquisition had a hand in sending these barbarians. Imagine if NATO had send a group of armed terrorists into the USSR and those terrorist ended up killing a good number of soldiers/civilians before being defeated. You can be damn sure that the Soviet government would have used that as a propaganda tool to villainize the west. it only would've made relations between NATO and the USSR all the more hostile, giving the USSR an excuse to strike back against the west using similar tactics.

 

So really, is it worth it to risk further instability in Thedas by making relations with Tevinter even worse and at the same time, putting innocent people in danger just to "troll Tevinter"?

[berrieh]

I figured it was a means of executing the Barbarian thugs so that they could die with joy and honor. They'll last like 5 minutes in Tevinter without continued Inquisition support, I imagine (and you can cut off support in the War Table operation). I did it because it was what the guy wanted and I had no love for the Vints. Even if I execute the one guy (which isn't even an option - though he can be put in the prisoner/example thingy), it's not like there won't be Barbarians. Better Barbarians in Tevinter than in Ferelden. And arming them for their exile is the honest thing to do. I think. 

[LordParbr]

I'm a little surprised as to why this option is so popular. Usually, BSN is known to lean more towards the paragon/good guy morality. Are you not worried about the potential side effects of sending a group of armed barbarians into another nation? Tevinter's government is cruel and disgusting but I highly doubt that EVERY single person in Tevinter is an evil psychopath. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of normal working class people. I'm talking about the innocent peasants who are just struggling to survive. Not to mention all those slaves. If you send a horde of barbarians into Tevinter, is it not possible that innocent people could end up getting killed? What if they rape and pillage a Tevinter village before the military can hunt them all down? What about the Tevinter soldiers themselves. Do they deserve to be attacked and killed for no reason?

 

Just think about who exactly is going to suffer from this decision. A horde of barbarians won't bring down the Tevinter government so you're not doing much to them. You could however end up killing innocent people as well as creating more resentment in Tevinter towards the southern nations should they find out that the Inquisition had a hand in sending these barbarians. Imagine if NATO had send a group of armed terrorists into the USSR and those terrorist ended up killing a good number of soldiers/civilians before being defeated. You can be damn sure that the Soviet government would have used that as a propaganda tool to villainize the west. it only would've made relations between NATO and the USSR all the more hostile, giving the USSR an excuse to strike back against the west using similar tactics.

 

So really, is it worth it to risk further instability in Thedas by making relations with Tevinter even worse and at the same time, putting innocent people in danger just to "troll Tevinter"?

because it's an ironic punishment. His son was supposed to be warring with Tevinter, but decided to poke the Inquisition instead. So, you exile him and his clan to Tevinter.
 

I figured it was a means of executing the Barbarian thugs so that they could die with joy and honor. They'll last like 5 minutes in Tevinter without continued Inquisition support, I imagine (and you can cut off support in the War Table operation). I did it because it was what the guy wanted and I had no love for the Vints. Even if I execute the one guy (which isn't even an option - though he can be put in the prisoner/example thingy), it's not like there won't be Barbarians. Better Barbarians in Tevinter than in Ferelden. And arming them for their exile is the honest thing to do. I think. 

Gibbet. A gibbet is a bit like the cage we find Sten in.

[Gustave Flowbert]

It's a little much to call the Avvar barbarians. They have a different moral code and set of expected cultural behaviors but many behave as what we would generally consider "good people". He only throws goat(s) at Skyhold because his idiot son challenged you, something he didn't fully condone but that he felt compelled to address to the morals of his culture. As a way to have him serve the Inquisition the best way he could, this is actually a pretty genius move on the Inquisitor's part. Gives the Inquistion a distraction in Tevinter as well as a way to have updates on what's happening, at a time when the Venatori are emerging as a real threat.

[Ranadiel Marius]

The best option for the goat thrower is to make him an ambassador. I don't know why anyone would ever go with a different option.

Now I just need to decide if I want to use him and his partner as a threat ("Do as we say or we won't recall our ambassadors") or train him in social graces to make him the ultimate covert bodyguard.

[LordParbr]

The best option for the goat thrower is to make him an ambassador. I don't know why anyone would ever go with a different option.

Now I just need to decide if I want to use him and his partner as a threat ("Do as we say or we won't recall our ambassadors") or train him in social graces to make him the ultimate covert bodyguard.

Because the Avvar have a reputation as mindless barbarians, and that isn't the kind of person you want as any kind of "ambassador."

[Rifneno]

Isn't it cruel to throw a goat at a castle wall?

[KaiserShep]

It's not cruel if he enjoys it.

[Ibn_Shisha]

I assigned him to Lord Abernache for 'cultural exchange'

[Stelae]

The Chief makes it pretty clear he's there for a fight, as demanded by his culture and traditions.  You just give him a better fight against a more prestigious enemy.  Presumably after a slap-up meal of goat stew. 

[Gustave Flowbert]

Isn't it cruel to throw a goat at a castle wall?

 

There are a lot of cruel things done in video games that might be given a pass since they're not hurting anyone real. Now, the debate about if that has any effect on the real world is a whole discussion to its own but I mean, yes, please don't throw real goats at real walls.

[Savber100]

Nah they deserve each other. 

[omgodzilla]

Isn't it cruel to throw a goat at a castle wall?

 

Certainly, so why punish the citizens of Tevinter? They're not responsible for the cruelties of their government. Attacking Tevinter has the likelyhood of killing alot of innocent people.

 

 

It's not cruel if he enjoys it.

 

I don't think you understood my question. I'm not talking about cruelty towards the goat thrower. I'm talking about cruelty towards the citizens of Tevinter. The regular civilians who could end up getting raped and killed by these Avvar guys.

 

 

It's a little much to call the Avvar barbarians. They have a different moral code and set of expected cultural behaviors but many behave as what we would generally consider "good people". He only throws goat(s) at Skyhold because his idiot son challenged you, something he didn't fully condone but that he felt compelled to address to the morals of his culture. As a way to have him serve the Inquisition the best way he could, this is actually a pretty genius move on the Inquisitor's part. Gives the Inquistion a distraction in Tevinter as well as a way to have updates on what's happening, at a time when the Venatori are emerging as a real threat.

 

If the citizens of Tevinter find out that the Inquisition played a role in sending these barbarians to Tevinter, wouldn't that just create sympathy for the Venetori? The same thing has happened in Afghanistan/northern Pakistan where the US struck a bunch of Taliban dudes but accidentally killed some civilians in the process. The families of those civilians who previously had no ties to the Taliban suddenly became loyal to the Taliban since the Taliban is at war with the people who killed their family members. It may not be logical in the long term but these people don't care about logic. They just want revenge. In the same way, if you send a group of these guys to attack Tevinter and possibly kill innocent civilians in the process, you would only give the Tevinter government an excuse to become even more hostile towards the Inquisition and the southern nations. Remember, the venetori are an extremist cult. They have no ties to the Tevinter government. But you could give the Tevinter government an excuse to provide support to these guys. So really, in the long run, wouldn't sending these dudes into Tevinter just bite you in the ass? Not to mention, the civilians that could die from this. Are their deaths worth it?

[TheJediSaint]

I fully support rehoming Barbarians in Tevinter lands.

[Gustave Flowbert]

This decision wasn't so much cruel as weird and sort of illogical to me.  For one, "Tevinter" per se isn't my enemy.  It's some cultist guys who happen to come from Tevinter and presumably are now mostly wherever Corypheus is.  Having some barbarians attack isn't going to do crap to get rid of the Venatori, who aren't even the main point anymore.  It's like running around killing genlocks in the Deep Roads while an archdemon is ravaging the surface.  

 

Secondly, it was not even apparent to me what this guy's "crime" was beyond flinging goats at the keep, which just seemed a weird device for comic relief.  So his "idiot" son attacked me.  Sounds like he had nothing to do with that and thus, it's not his fault.

 

The only logical response to this situation to me was "Dude, quit throwing goats and go home.  What's wrong with you?" but that wasn't an option.  I suppose the gibbet makes the most sense for me now that I think about it.  It's a medieval "stop that nonsense" response.  

 

Tevinter has an interesting history and some great concepts as a dramatic place (and some badass, great characters to come out of it) but speaking with Dorian and those War Table operations with Maeveris, it's clear that the good of Tevinter struggles to outshine the bad. Sure, the Archon ends up not being involved with Corypheus but that doesn't mean he has not done horrible things, things which Dorian's perspective leads us to believe are the norm (hurtful/negative uses of blood magic or summoning to get ahead politically). And the Venatori are a major - if secret - political force by the end of the game if not the outright majority.

 

I'm not saying Tevinter is a hellhole deserving to be wiped from the face of Thedas but it's definitely been made clear it's not been too terribly misrepresented. And that is all before we get to the slavery issue! Dorian makes a good point about the sometime-slight differences between economic wage slavery and actual personal enslavement (and we learn it's about as complicated as the ancient Roman ideal of slavery, in some cases) but the point I'm trying to make that it's not out of nowhere that Tevinter is partially equated with the Venatori, from the Inquisition's standpoint.

[omgodzilla]

Nah they deserve each other. 

 

Do the civilians of Tevinter deserve to be raped and massacred by a horde of barbarians? I doubt these guys have their own version of the Geneva Convention. 

[Heimdall]

It's also the only course of action that seems to get unanimous approval from the companions, oddly enough. So there's that.

[Taleroth]

Do the civilians of Tevinter deserve to be raped and massacred by a horde of barbarians? I doubt these guys have their own version of the Geneva Convention. 

These guys aren't a horde. It's like a small tribe, just one family.

 

And they don't seem so terribly bad either. Don't be racist just because they're not from Rome. You terrible person, you.

[Vertrix]

i admit it, when i saw that sscene i almost chocked myself.

[Zu Long]

Do the civilians of Tevinter deserve to be raped and massacred by a horde of barbarians? I doubt these guys have their own version of the Geneva Convention. 

 

 

The barbarians weren't raping or massacring civilians in Ferelden, what makes you think they'll do so in Tevinter? They kidnapped some scouts (clearly military) to lure known fighters into what they consider honorable combat. Sky Watcher and Goat Thrower both make it completely clear the Avvar live by a code, one which doesn't seem to include warring on civilians. In the meantime they become the headache of a country whose policies I don't like very much, and whom they apparently were already feuding with anyway.

[Kenshen]

Seeing the goat actually hit the wall was great but I didn't really understand what was going on after that.  I picked the Gibbet but I had no idea what that was until reading this thread.  Do any of these judgements actually affect anything?

[Zu Long]

Seeing the goat actually hit the wall was great but I didn't really understand what was going on after that.  I picked the Gibbet but I had no idea what that was until reading this thread.  Do any of these judgements actually affect anything?

 

They can affect if you get side quests on the table as well as companion approval. I don't think any of them affect the ending, but it's hard to say.

[omgodzilla]

The barbarians weren't raping or massacring civilians in Ferelden, what makes you think they'll do so in Tevinter? They kidnapped some scouts (clearly military) to lure known fighters into what they consider honorable combat. Sky Watcher and Goat Thrower both make it completely clear the Avvar live by a code, one which doesn't seem to include warring on civilians. In the meantime they become the headache of a country whose policies I don't like very much, and whom they apparently were already feuding with anyway.

 

Even if the barbarians try to avoid civilian casualties, there's no guarantee that civilians wont die or suffer. Even the US kills civilians from time to time when targeting terrorists. Civilian casualties are not always avoidable. And somehow, I doubt these guys would put as much effort into avoiding civilian deaths as the US does. This is a game taking place in a medieval like setting after all.Even if civilians are not the ones dying, that doesn't suddenly make it okay to start an unnecessary conflict. Soldiers are people too. Many of them are probably just regular people trying to survive, maybe even conscripts. They're the ones that will die from this attack, not the evil overlords of the nation. Also, if you dislike the country's policies, why would you send a bunch of warriors rampaging through their territory? How will that help you in the long run? What if that country then finds out that YOU were responsible for arming and sending these guys to attack them? You will have given them a propaganda tool. They can use it as an excuse to gain more support among the citizens of Tevinter. After all, if you found out that some organization armed a group of barbarians to attack your country, wouldn't you be pissed? You might give some people in the Tevinter government an excuse to provide aid to the Venetori. Hell, you might even create sympathy for the Venetori. Is it really worth it to make relations between Tevinter and the southern nations any worse than they already are? Especially at a time when the world is completely going to hell? In times like this, nations need to ally together. The world doesn't need further instability. Imagine if the US and USSR had attacked each other in the middle of the second world war...

[omgodzilla]

These guys aren't a horde. It's like a small tribe, just one family.

 

And they don't seem so terribly bad either. Don't be racist just because they're not from Rome. You terrible person, you.

 

They come from a war-like society. They are a clan of hardened warriors. I mean really, how much effort would they put in to avoid civilian casualties? Would it even matter? Civilian casualties can happen regardless of how much effort you put in to avoid them. Its why there is so much controversy over US drone strikes in Pakistan. Sending them armed into Tevinter doesn't do anything other than causing unnecessary death and destruction.

 

In other words, you're not attacking Joseph Stalin, you're attacking the peasants...