53 réponses à ce sujet

[Gustave Flowbert]

I know this is a troll topic but - god help me - I can't stop responding.

 

Like, please go read the codices and backstory on this quest and play through the Fallow Mire again. I promise you the Avvar aren't mindless assailants but are - in fact - human beings with consciences, cultures, and personal codes. It's an end to a plot thread that is a bit silly and gives you a little more insight to the Avvar (and unlocks some interesting operation). I promise you are not unleashing a hundred thousand, rapacious hate-bombs to a peaceful village of Tevinter shepherds.

[omgodzilla]

I know this is a troll topic but - god help me - I can't stop responding.

 

Like, please go read the codices and backstory on this quest and play through the Fallow Mire again. I promise you the Avvar aren't mindless assailants but are - in fact - human beings with consciences, cultures, and personal codes. It's an end to a plot thread that is a bit silly and gives you a little more insight to the Avvar (and unlocks some interesting operation). I promise you are not unleashing a hundred thousand, rapacious hate-bombs to a peaceful village of Tevinter shepherds.

 

But what's the point? Sending them to attack Tevinter won't do anything to get rid of the Tevinter government. All it will do is result in unnecessary death and make relations with Tevinter even worse at a time when Thedas needs unity. It could even create further sympathy for the Venetori. Also, civilian casualties are not always avoidable. Look at all the conflicts that have happened in real life over the last few decades. Generally, the number of civilian deaths outnumber the military ones...

[Rainbow Wyvern]

I think you're over-thinking this. I doubt the Avvar - who aren't mindless killing machines hellbent on death and destruction with no meaning - are going to waltz into some innocent Tevinter farmer's house/village and slaughter everyone like human-shaped chickens. 

 

The point of 'exiling' them wasn't to get them to destroy Tevinter's government, either. It's to troll Tevinter, the way I saw it. An entertaining and actually useful benefit.

[berrieh]

It's a little much to call the Avvar barbarians. They have a different moral code and set of expected cultural behaviors but many behave as what we would generally consider "good people". He only throws goat(s) at Skyhold because his idiot son challenged you, something he didn't fully condone but that he felt compelled to address to the morals of his culture. As a way to have him serve the Inquisition the best way he could, this is actually a pretty genius move on the Inquisitor's part. Gives the Inquistion a distraction in Tevinter as well as a way to have updates on what's happening, at a time when the Venatori are emerging as a real threat.

 

But....they are barbarians, in terms of the game. (What are real life barbarians anyway? Why do we call people barbarians? Aren't they just people with different moral codes and expected cultural behaviors?) To me, the term "barbarian" doesn't imply any kind of evil - just basically....a different moral code and certain kinds of expected cultural traditions, like throwing goats at big castles to signify formal, customary offense over an idiot son's death.

[omgodzilla]

I think you're over-thinking this. I doubt the Avvar - who aren't mindless killing machines hellbent on death and destruction with no meaning - are going to waltz into some innocent Tevinter farmer's house/village and slaughter everyone like human-shaped chickens. 

 

The point of 'exiling' them wasn't to get them to destroy Tevinter's government, either. It's to troll Tevinter, the way I saw it. An entertaining and actually useful benefit.

 

Trolling Tevinter probably involves them attacking the Tevinter military, resulting in a certain level of death and destruction. Even if soldiers are the ones dying, it doesn't suddenly make it okay. You're not trolling anyone. You're just causing unnecessary death. The soldiers are just doing their jobs. Sure, some of them could be war criminals but a good number of them are probably just conscripts or people trying to survive in a harsh country. Think of what the families of the slain soldiers will go through. The tribe itself will probably be wiped out as well. So, really, what will have been achieved in the end other than suffering? 

[Hurbster]

Could have been worse, could have sent Fenris.

[bernando]

Gibbet! Sending a bunch of barbarians to Tevinter is just asking for war

[Leo]

 So, really, what will have been achieved in the end other than suffering? 

 

You'll have rewarded the Avaar family, seeing as fighting Tevinter is what they wanted to do...so it's not really all just suffering.

[Taleroth]

But what's the point? Sending them to attack Tevinter won't do anything to get rid of the Tevinter government. All it will do is result in unnecessary death and make relations with Tevinter even worse at a time when Thedas needs unity. It could even create further sympathy for the Venetori.

Thedas doesn't need unity with Tevinter. And thinking it's going to create sympathy with Venatori is an unnecessary leap by about a mile.

Also, civilian casualties are not always avoidable. Look at all the conflicts that have happened in real life over the last few decades. Generally, the number of civilian deaths outnumber the military ones...

When the Avvar start employing bombs, I'll view the situation as similar.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Yup, it's cruel. And wonderful.

[omgodzilla]

Thedas doesn't need unity with Tevinter. And thinking it's going to create sympathy with Venatori is an unnecessary leap by about a mile.

When the Avvar start employing bombs, I'll view the situation as similar.

 

Thedas doesn't need further conflict with Tevinter either. When all hell breaks lose, its wise to make alliances even with regimes you despise. The US didn't have much love for the USSR but allied with them anyways during the second world war. The Tevinter government is not allied with the Venetori. They're not exactly at war with the inquisition either. If the inquisition suddenly send a tribe of barbarians to attack Tevinter, then how would that effect Tevinter's relationship with the inquisition? You can be damn sure they would be pissed. Anyone would be pissed if you send a group of barbarians to attack them. The Venetori are actively fighting against the inquisition. Its really not that much of a stretch to assume that provoking further hostilities with Tevinter could result in some rise in sympathy for the Venetori. Its really not at all surprising. Its happened in real life. The Taliban has gained the sympathies from local people in Pakistan/Afghanistan several times. The reason mostly being unintentional civilian casualties from US drone strikes. The family members or countrymen of the slain civilians don't care if the US wasn't trying to hurt them. They only want revenge and the best way to get that is by siding with the group that is actively fighting against the US.

 

If you send in this tribe to Tevinter, who will suffer? Not the Archon or his buddies. Its mostly just gonna be random soldiers and maybe even civilians that will die. Even if the Avvar try to avoid civilian casualties, its not always possible. Also, how do we even know that they WILL avoid civilian casualties? Ever seen the show called "Vikings"? As the name implies its about a bunch of Vikings. They have their own set of morals and codes. They have their own sense of honour. Yet, when they go to raid foreign lands, they don't do much to avoid killing civilians. Some of them do try not to harm innocents, but others don't really give a damn and basically kill everyone in sight. Just because bombs are not being used, does not mean that civilian casualties will suddenly be avoided. 

 

And seriously though, what exactly is the justification for attacking Tevinter when you already have vast hordes of enemies trying to kill you? That's like if a huge war were to break out in Western Europe and some genius suddenly decided to attack Russia to make things even more screwed up. 

[Fladnag the Fab]

I know right? Tis very cruel to hand us Shagga son of Dolf and not allow us to cut off his manhood and feed it to the goats.

[Ashagar]

Interesting you can play your cards so they settle down and establish a place where Tevintar traders stop in a otherwise empty area, which provides another source of information and the only major conflict is that they make the Tevintar government nervous and there are brawls at the but so far that seems the worst of it.

[omgodzilla]

Interesting you can play your cards so they settle down and establish a place where Tevintar traders stop in a otherwise empty area, which provides another source of information and the only major conflict is that they make the Tevintar government nervous and there are brawls at the but so far that seems the worst of it.

 

That definitely seems like a much more reasonable choice than sending them on a rampage. 

[Zu Long]

That definitely seems like a much more reasonable choice than sending them on a rampage. 

 

You still have to send them there first.

[thepsychoticbiotic]

I couldn't get past the clip of the goats hitting the wall.

I'm still unable to get past it. Holy crap. 

[ColdinT]

Umm....isn't a Gibbet basically a "Gallows"? Which means, you're sentencing him to be hanged?  At least that's what google is telling me.

 

I don't think that's necessarily a good decision.

[snackrat]

Personally I don't have any beef with they guy at all. He thinks his son was dumb. The guy who actually slighted us is dead. At worst, this guy is guilty of getting goat on the walls and making clean-up work.

His punishment should be a mop and bucket.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm a little surprised as to why this option is so popular. Usually, BSN is known to lean more towards the paragon/good guy morality. Are you not worried about the potential side effects of sending a group of armed barbarians into another nation? Tevinter's government is cruel and disgusting but I highly doubt that EVERY single person in Tevinter is an evil psychopath. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of normal working class people. I'm talking about the innocent peasants who are just struggling to survive. Not to mention all those slaves. If you send a horde of barbarians into Tevinter, is it not possible that innocent people could end up getting killed? What if they rape and pillage a Tevinter village before the military can hunt them all down? What about the Tevinter soldiers themselves. Do they deserve to be attacked and killed for no reason?

 

Just think about who exactly is going to suffer from this decision. A horde of barbarians won't bring down the Tevinter government so you're not doing much to them. You could however end up killing innocent people as well as creating more resentment in Tevinter towards the southern nations should they find out that the Inquisition had a hand in sending these barbarians. Imagine if NATO had send a group of armed terrorists into the USSR and those terrorist ended up killing a good number of soldiers/civilians before being defeated. You can be damn sure that the Soviet government would have used that as a propaganda tool to villainize the west. it only would've made relations between NATO and the USSR all the more hostile, giving the USSR an excuse to strike back against the west using similar tactics.

 

So really, is it worth it to risk further instability in Thedas by making relations with Tevinter even worse and at the same time, putting innocent people in danger just to "troll Tevinter"?

 

He actually likes the decision because he gets to kill tevinters and there are consequences for not handling it right on the war table.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Interesting you can play your cards so they settle down and establish a place where Tevintar traders stop in a otherwise empty area, which provides another source of information and the only major conflict is that they make the Tevintar government nervous and there are brawls at the but so far that seems the worst of it.

 

Which specialist do you use?

[Cid Revolution]

He got an all-expenses paid trip to Tevinter with free supplies sent to him by my secret spy troops. Sounds like a bargain deal to me.

[Virgulec]

If the father didn't mention that his son should be warring with the vints, I would have chosen something much different. Also, the guy you meet in the Mire says, they want to heal the sky. They assumed that the vints had something to do with it(my reasoning). Though, they are not entirely incorrect with that assumption. Also, when you question that guy and mentions about the different belief systems he angrily threatens you to class them with the other belief systems agiain. So, the ambassador role would be forcing them against their belief and system. Again, the only reason we encounter them was because they want to heal the sky(as they put it).