97 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

In Origins I played a sword and board warrior. Like many people, I disliked the 'shuffle' of melee combat, but as a tank, I felt solid.

In DA II, I played a mage because it seemed to fit the storyline. I put points into Spirit Healer, which made it a touch boring, but setting things on fire was nice. Then I played a two-handed warrior/reaver, and it was awesome. I'd rush into groups and they'd explode in a glorious mess like a can of spaghetti and meatballs heated in the microwave.

For Inquisition, I decided to give rogue a try.

I'm level 13, 50 hours in, and I'm considering scrapping this and just going with a mage or warrior. I'm greatly enjoying almost everything but the combat, which is an exercise in frustration.

Autoattack - Not that bad, except the reach of my daggers is so short that if the mob moves a step away, I lose my combo and have to run up to them and start again. I wouldn't mind if DA took a page from Diablo, and my character automatically moved into the correct range to attack an enemy.

Flank Attack (upgraded) - Works about half the time. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, 'attacking' them twice, but do no damage. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, attacking them twice, doing damage, but I'm still visible. Sometimes, my character will rush through the enemy and keep on flying forward, such that I end up no where near them. I will still not get the second attack and I'll still be visible. Sometimes instead of going through the enemy, my character will simply rush forward, not attack, and stand (while visible) right in front of them.

For all the times this doesn't work, I still have to wait for the CD.

Twin Fangs - Works about 70% of the time. Sometimes I'll simply twin fang air, but that won't waste a CD. Sometimes when I use this, my character will shuffle back and forth, not doing a damn thing.

Deathblow - Works about 20% of the time. This is my hardest hitting ability, but I only click this button if everything else is on CD because it does not work.

Many times, I use this power and nothing happens. It won't queue, or it will queue and my character decides she's not interested in fighting anymore and just stands there. The worst is when my PC decides she needs to position herself correctly - last time, that meant walking backwards from the enemy that was right in front for about 12 seconds.

To be sure: I only use this ability when I am standing behind an enemy, but my PC will constantly reposition herself. Walking into traps, moving in front of and enemy and taking their sword blows, walking off cliffs and WILL STILL NOT FIRE THE ABILITY.

All of this, and even when the stars align and I'm not fighting against the controls, I'd say the damage I do isn't that impressive.

Defensively, I have parry, but still take damage from 'AOE' melee. Enemies with two-handed weapons have a huge zone of effect and I have to constantly move to stay in the small spot behind them. Powerful enemies have melee AOEs with little or no tell as to when they're going to use them, and parry doesn't protect you against those.

It seems as though defensively, the game is built around 'be at range' or 'generate guard.' I've taken the passive to increase my dodge percentage, but I haven't seen a reduction in overall damage.

[count_4]

Flank Attack (upgraded) - Works about half the time. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, 'attacking' them twice, but do no damage. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, attacking them twice, doing damage, but I'm still visible. Sometimes, my character will rush through the enemy and keep on flying forward, such that I end up no where near them. I will still not get the second attack and I'll still be visible. Sometimes instead of going through the enemy, my character will simply rush forward, not attack, and stand (while visible) right in front of them.

For all the times this doesn't work, I still have to wait for the CD.
 

 

As someone playing a dual-wield rogue, this sounds awfully familiar. I don't really have problems with the other abilities (not using deathblow) but this one fails a ridiculous amount of times.

[Maria Caliban]

What I don't understand is why the other abilities don't work like Twin Fang.

Deathblow and Twin Fang ought to work *exactly* the same, save one reduces the enemy's armor while one does extra damage based on enemy health. That Deathblow mostly fails while Twin Fang mostly works confuses me to no end.

I recall someone mentioning that rogue was the least popular class. Maybe they just poured more time/energy into polishing other classes.

[HozzMidnight]

They definitely need to fix the BS with abilities not landing and then losing the CD.

They should make you move automatically in range to do a basic attack, if you are out of range or become out of range (it does this in the tac cam view, not sure why they are different).

 

Lastly, we need a UI indication when you are flanking your target.  The game says flanking is behind or to the side, but what does that mean?  Anything not in your targets front facing 90 degrees or?  

[Allan Schumacher]

Tactical Camera if I understand your description of the symptoms?

[Gustave Flowbert]

It could just be it's not a play-style that's your cup of tea. I'm finding that I took to it but that I had to think very carefully about my positioning before using my abilities. I kind of like that you have to maneuver to properly use your attacks but I get the frustration. I've noticed that in some cases where I use the ability but it doesn't land, it actually doesn't hold it against me and allows me to immediately re-use it? Could be a glitch or something but I'm a DW rogue Tempest on PC.

[Butters158]

I've definitely noticed some wonky hitboxes with my rogue abilities, like using shadow strike while literally humping an enemy and it misses.

 

Not using tactical camera when this happens.

[drmoose00]

i had so much fun with the dagger rogue in the previous two games I had to start with one here. I didn't like DA2 so much, and couldn't finish due to the map rehash, but it was still fun.

 

DA:i was just a chore, so much so that I got a refund. I will try again down the road as a mage or something....

[Shelled]

shadow strike doesn't seem to work at all in combat from what I've seen. Only works when i start combat with shadow strike from stealth (not when combat has already started). Maybe its just a hitbox bug though I duno. If I use stealth and shadowstrike it doesn't work if I'm in combat. If I use flank attack that puts me in stealth then try to use it, it doesn't work. This is in tactical camera btw, (which needs to be severely redesigned or improved on pc).
 
Flank attack doesn't do what its description says it does either, because the moment you use it the enemy faces directly towards you, they don't "lose where you are" at all, and because of that you do no flanking damage at all with it. Unless somebody has already taunted the enemy, but still, this ability doesn't work right at all.

Shadow strike being bugged as hell makes the entire stealth tree seem pointless other than sleeping powder.

overall rogue is terrible, especially with the tactical camera because enemies move around a lot more even when taunted. Seems like they designed this a.i to work with the realtime action mode and little thought was actually given to how it would function when using a flank rogue in tactical mode.

It's just awful. I am really upset about this entire game at this point. I wish I had got a refund during my 24 hour GGG. There's no way they're gonna fix all these problems.

[pablosplinter]

Too many colourful explosions, not enough useful abilities.

I played all through as a rogue. It was barely tolerable tbh. Playing as a warrior now, and it is maybe slightly better

Bring back weapon switching!

[Zhen Dil Oloth]

???

 

Been playing as an Elf Rogue with Dual Daggers.... and it is quite fun.

 

Not sure what you guys are complaining about. 

[Suhiira]

I'm also playing a Dagger Rogue and having many of the same problems.

The PC Tac Cam is so buggy I only use it when I have no other choice (dragons ... only done one so far but I fought the Tac Cam FAR more then I did the dragon).

 

Controlling my rogue = missing at least 50% of the time due to facing/distance issues THEN having the skills themselves fail up to 50% of the time.

In any tough battle I tend to get killed/knocked out as often as not since MOBs make a bee-line for whichever character you're actually controlling more often then not (I've tested this by taking control of various party members and replaying the same battle ... MOBs alway bee-line for whichever one I'm controlling) until your tank gets off a taunt ... so either trust the AI to save your ass (by having the tank taunt before you're paste) or take control of your tank first thing and activate their taunt yourself.

 

My rogue is very effective in combat, and rarely dies, when I allow the AI to control them.  So for tough battles I usually take control of my archer and let the AI run my character.

Rather a shame the RPG aspects of the game don't extend to being able to effectively control your character in combat.

[Neonoms]

I don't have an issue of it not being fun, I've quite enjoyed my assassin dual dagger rogue. However, technical issues are there. Especially with him hitting air as the enemy moves two steps away from him. Quite hilarious. Oh, the intimidating, impressive herald of Andraste.. who can't even hit his opponent to save his life. Literally.

 

As for the abilities, yeah they are wonky as heck. Especially deathblow which just keeps missing! But that's mostly because the enemy takes a step away from him. It appears that that's the answer to defeating my Herald. Just move a little and he'll be as helpless as a newborn. It will take him a while to shuffle awkwardly and run after the opponent, while Dorian looks on from the sidelines with a pitying expression, happily casting his spells. 

 

He is an absolute killer though, that damage!

[tomkaa988]

when you attack and the enemy moves one step away from you and you lose all your combo...every fight....several times during a fight... 

[Neonoms]

All of these issues shine the brightest during dragon fights. Have had some frustrating encounters with those. Dragons move a lot and their hitboxes seem to evade my rogue 70% of the time. So he just keeps running after the dragon, punching air like a fool. 

[Terodil]

Seconded, as in the other rogue (DW) threads...

 

Main problems:

 

1. missing attacks (in all modes) for weird reasons (see above; sometimes skill activates visually but does no damage and does not go on CD; skill activates but does no damage and does go on CD; skill simply does not activate despite having enough energy and not being on CD)

 

2. lack of mobility / ability to stick to enemies (click-to-move would help, or a 'stick-to-focused-enemy' mechanic)

 

3. miniscule enemy hitboxes paired with miniscule dagger reach = rogue is almost useless when trying to fight a dragon, since she will keep running into its back leg trying to find a spot to hit -- while it's right in front of her

 

4. squishiness in aoe situations (e.g. bears, 'hammerdins', rage demons) due to lack of mitigation (although I'm told you can circumvent that by slotting guard generation into your daggers. Sounds very unroguish and slightly non-RPy to me >.>). Oftentimes just feels like I'm forced to sit it out and watch my party members make short work of them

 

5. And all of the above coupled with horrendous controls = huge PITA.

 

Thanks for stopping by! Hopefully you can get this fixed. I love my rogue, but I have to play a mage for the time being because I don't want to spend the majority of my battles in fights with the controls

[otis0310]

Tactical Camera if I understand your description of the symptoms?

 

Unfortunately, although I am not the OP, I would say you do not.  I always play as a mage, a ranged fighter.  But I always theorized, and according to the forums there is some truth to it, that because of the lack of auto attack any melee chracter would be in trouble.  Basically you cannot move while attacking, and you no longer atuomatically follow your target if it moves, like other DA games do.  As result if the target moves you'll be stuck attacking thin air and have to manually chase them around, and then keep the attack button down to do basic attacks again.  Then the enemy moves, and repeat.

 

If this was an action game, like Call of Duty but with swords it would be one thing.  Heck Skyrim has you attack thin air if you don't get close enough with your swords, but I would not call Skyrim a game where tactical combat is important. However this is supposed to be a game where tactics are important, which is extremely difficult to do when you have to micromanage at this level.

 

I honestly doubt that using the tactical camera would actually help in this major design flaw.  You might be bale to use the pause and play effect and slowly move time forward so you can compensate for this a bit faster when he does move.  However, it most certainly does not address the major issue.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I actually adored DW rogue in both DAO and DA2...

 

I couldn't get past the prologue with it in DAI. I went archer.

[Sartoz]

In Origins I played a sword and board warrior. Like many people, I disliked the 'shuffle' of melee combat, but as a tank, I felt solid.

In DA II, I played a mage because it seemed to fit the storyline. I put points into Spirit Healer, which made it a touch boring, but setting things on fire was nice. Then I played a two-handed warrior/reaver, and it was awesome. I'd rush into groups and they'd explode in a glorious mess like a can of spaghetti and meatballs heated in the microwave.

For Inquisition, I decided to give rogue a try.

I'm level 13, 50 hours in, and I'm considering scrapping this and just going with a mage or warrior. I'm greatly enjoying almost everything but the combat, which is an exercise in frustration.

Autoattack - Not that bad, except the reach of my daggers is so short that if the mob moves a step away, I lose my combo and have to run up to them and start again. I wouldn't mind if DA took a page from Diablo, and my character automatically moved into the correct range to attack an enemy.

Flank Attack (upgraded) - Works about half the time. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, 'attacking' them twice, but do no damage. Sometimes I'll use it and my character will rush through the enemy, attacking them twice, doing damage, but I'm still visible. Sometimes, my character will rush through the enemy and keep on flying forward, such that I end up no where near them. I will still not get the second attack and I'll still be visible. Sometimes instead of going through the enemy, my character will simply rush forward, not attack, and stand (while visible) right in front of them.

For all the times this doesn't work, I still have to wait for the CD.

Twin Fangs - Works about 70% of the time. Sometimes I'll simply twin fang air, but that won't waste a CD. Sometimes when I use this, my character will shuffle back and forth, not doing a damn thing.

Deathblow - Works about 20% of the time. This is my hardest hitting ability, but I only click this button if everything else is on CD because it does not work.

Many times, I use this power and nothing happens. It won't queue, or it will queue and my character decides she's not interested in fighting anymore and just stands there. The worst is when my PC decides she needs to position herself correctly - last time, that meant walking backwards from the enemy that was right in front for about 12 seconds.

To be sure: I only use this ability when I am standing behind an enemy, but my PC will constantly reposition herself. Walking into traps, moving in front of and enemy and taking their sword blows, walking off cliffs and WILL STILL NOT FIRE THE ABILITY.

All of this, and even when the stars align and I'm not fighting against the controls, I'd say the damage I do isn't that impressive.

Defensively, I have parry, but still take damage from 'AOE' melee. Enemies with two-handed weapons have a huge zone of effect and I have to constantly move to stay in the small spot behind them. Powerful enemies have melee AOEs with little or no tell as to when they're going to use them, and parry doesn't protect you against those.

It seems as though defensively, the game is built around 'be at range' or 'generate guard.' I've taken the passive to increase my dodge percentage, but I haven't seen a reduction in overall damage.

 

Have you equipped your rogoue with rings that have 30% increase in abilities, such as PARRY, for example? If, so, have you noticed any improvement?

 

Great post btw.
 

[Moirnelithe]

Couldn't play a DW rogue either due to these issues, switched to mage. Which is way better although I'm forced to play on casual because the PC controls and tact camera are a PITA.

[Terodil]

Just to add a little tangent: Comparing the combat in DA:I to Skyrim or Shadow of Mordor is not entirely appropriate, IMO.

 

You are expected to manage four different people as opposed to just one. Blocking, dodging, and countering/riposte are easy if you just have one main character to control. It's an entirely different beast to expect twitchy responses in a party-based environment, even if you do delegate some of it to a rather silly AI.

 

As others have said before, I think that trying to push reflex-based gameplay into DA is not the best of ideas ever.

[sandalisthemaker]

Wat

 

I'm having plenty of fun with my dagger rogue!

[Docklabor]

Dagger Rogue is fun to me,though requires a lot of control.I spend 50% time to control my Rogue Inquisitor character in battle.

 

And there are issues,mostly camera,first,Tactical camera is totally useless to Dagger Rogue,and for normal camera,I think it needs to be zoomed closer.Current zooming range is okay for other classes,but since the attack range for dagger rogue is so limited,closer observing is necessary.Also make me wonder,why did the Devs limit the closest zooming range?Make no sense,technically.

 

And there is delay if you want to move after normal attack combo been initiated,maybe 2 seconds,which is very frustrating,since Dagger Rogues has to move a lot in battle.

 

And occasionally,after used an ability,my character freezes.

 

Hitbox for huge creature should be bigger.Dragon Age absorbed many elements from WOW,I think this should be the same(Hitbox for huge creature in WOW is very,very large.)

[Lethys1]

Tactical Camera if I understand your description of the symptoms?

 

The tactical camera has a plethora of issues, but the one most affecting rogues is how often skills will absolutely miss their intended target if queue'd and left for the tac cam to handle.  So queue skills, unpause, and watch as your rogue absolutely hits nothing and wastes the skill.  This happens way, way more often than not.  So often, in fact, that I had to always take control if I ever queue'd a skill, then go back to tac cam to see all my other orders being ignored from just five seconds ago.  If you are attacking a stationary enemy it will hit sometimes (depending on the skill.  Twin Fangs yes, Deathblow no), but a moving enemy will have your character hit where the enemy was, not where they're going.  It kind of defeats the purpose of the tac cam if you can't hit things with it.

 

And because of how rogue works, missed skills do not get the automatic cooldown of something like when warrior has his "Challenge" blocked by the environment (which also makes not a lot of logical sense, but whatever).  Additionally, rogues will never be positioned anywhere that makes sense by the tac cam, even when you position them behind.  A lot of skills, twin fangs specifically, will actually not trigger directly behind a character, and will often move the rogue to be closer to the side of the enemy.  It's almost as if the game itself doesn't understand what flanking is.

 

And even in third person, the window for hitting and missing with skills is far too tight.  You should not be missing so close to the enemy.  Honestly, it feels like dw rogue was completely neglected in the game's development.  I re-rolled archer after not wanting to on principle, but at a certain point I just wanted to have fun.  And wow is it a world of difference in terms of overall DPS output, ease in combat, and survivability.  I rarely need to enter tac cam in hard difficulty now, and when I do it's a breeze because the skills actually hit.  Rogues that do melee should maybe do 2x the amount of damage they do now if BioWare wants it to be a viable option, assuming there isn't a larger overhaul of the class.

 

But the main tac cam fix should be having enemy rogues being able to hit with their skills.  And this also happens as the very first combat move; so I'll go in with a sneak rogue and want to initiate with a deathblow, but it will miss.  It really is irritating and makes the game harder in unfair ways.

[Kaaj]

I started the game as rogue, but I did not like it the last 2 abilities of dual daggers... then change to warrior. The warrior for me is the best class in DAI.

In Origins was Rogue and DA2 the Mage.