51 respuestas en este tema

[Snowdog65]

Finished SoZ. It was a slog. Never ever want to do that again.

There are some neat additions:
Overland map functionality is kind of neat.
Ranged combat finally useful...

Being able to use the character with best skills in conversation windows.

Probably the only time I will ever have a use for a warlock.

Trading is ok for a bit.

Criticism:
Areas are mostly recycled from the OC, or cookie cutter empty layouts.
Most of the cities on the map can't be entered, you can just enter the
same layout tavern/trading post.
Story has no real draw at all. Blah ending to go with blah story.
Cohorts are nearly as empty as the PCs you build to accompany you.
Overland encounters tedious and repetitive, with no good loot.

 

It was really hard to finish this one. It really dragged, and didn't really have any story character elements to draw me in.

FWIW - Chars at end:
Ranger12/fighter1/Rogue 1/FB5:    IMO Ranger/Rogue is the perfect leader. Has all the skills you want, and can be a effective front line fighter.
Bard4/Ranger6/AA9:   Good Str for mighty, crafted bow with extra damage + elemental arrows + AA = very nice ranged damage.
Warlock19: Crafter/Haster/Vitroloic Chain blaster - Unlimited group haste is sweet.
Cleric8/SL10: Monkey grip so he can use a nice shield and tank with his spear.

Traveled with Umoja(defaults at level up) since the beginning and
added Finch later on (gave him a bit of AA as well).

[Tchos]

Mask of the Betrayer is the one people recommend to people who want a story-focused campaign.

[kamal_]

As far as the areas go there was a dev interview were they stated they were basically out of time/money when it came to that, and they wound up using everything they had.

 

SoZ was the old-school game style expansion, MotB was the story focused expansion.

[Dann-J]

The overland map encounters could certainly be tedious at times. There were times when I'd know where I wanted to go, but I couldn't take more than a few steps between encounters before another one was triggered (there are only so many tanglefoot bags you can carry with you). It certainly provided a good incentive to upgrade the portal system in the Sword Coast area, although you've still got to walk back again after using it, and you had no other option in Samarach.

 

I completely overhauled the OLM system for a module I'm currently working on, getting rid of some of the more annoying aspects and introducing new OLM functionality (riding horses, hunting prey animals, active searching/tracking, localised weather events).

[kevL]

the encounter system would be better if it were subdivided into zones. The more encounters done in a zone, the less chance of getting another one.

 

A zone could then be 'cleared' -- and the encounter percentage could slowly increment again over time.

[Naeryna]

I think this game has imerse replay - role-playing potential. It's bad it has such bad story, but I liked when I'm more focused on characters and loved multiple side-quests. I also liked likeliness to NWN1.

[Snowdog65]

As far as the areas go there was a dev interview were they stated they were basically out of time/money when it came to that, and they wound up using everything they had.

 

SoZ was the old-school game style expansion, MotB was the story focused expansion.

 

IIRC the expansions for BG1/BG2 were more story driven.

 

This seemed a lot more like a different game in that time period: Icewind Dale. IIRC in that one you rolled your own party, it was story light, and  hack and slash heavy. I never bothered because I really don't find that fun. Story is king IMO, and it was very weak here.

[Dann-J]

If I want to experience a good story, I read a book. Story isn't important to me in something as lowly as a game. All I ask is that it's both fun and challenging.

 

In a good sandbox game you can create your own story. SoZ is a fair-to-middling sandbox (not great, not even good), but at least the end slideshow reflects the story the player created. I particularly liked the fact that there was no fixed end point, allowing the player to retire at any time. That meant you could deal with the Big Bad Boss (if you wanted to), and then go and mop up any side quests you might still have outstanding. I'm not a big fan of final areas that you can't leave once you've entered.

[Tchos]

Sometimes I have a hard time finding a good story even in a book...

[Thorsson64]

Perhaps the point is more that if you're going to have a story then it needs to be decent. It felt a bit rushed in SoZ - which of course it was. Still, I liked being able to create your own party, which gave it an element of replayability missing from any other in the series. Unfortunately to get the investment that the game needed it would have had to have been the start of a new game (NWN3?) rather than the second expansion of an old.

[Arkalezth]

If I want to experience a good story, I read a book. Story isn't important to me in something as lowly as a game. All I ask is that it's both fun and challenging.

 

"Fun" is subjective. Some people's idea of a fun game (at least RPGs, leaving aside Marios and Sonics and the likes) includes a good story.

 

Anyway, SOZ was never about the story. If you play it expecting a heavy story focus, you'll be disappointed; if you're looking for some old school, story-lite exploration and dungeon crawling, you'll probably like it, and if you're a module builder who's looking for new toys to use in your own work, you'll love it.

[Snowdog65]

"Fun" is subjective. Some people's idea of a fun game (at least RPGs, leaving aside Marios and Sonics and the likes) includes a good story.

 

Anyway, SOZ was never about the story. If you play it expecting a heavy story focus, you'll be disappointed; if you're looking for some old school, story-lite exploration and dungeon crawling, you'll probably like it, and if you're a module builder who's looking for new toys to use in your own work, you'll love it.

 

I dont' see anything old school about lack of story, lack of characters. BG2/BG2 had great characters and story. SoZ has almost nothing for the player. I do see the value for builders. But for players this is the worse of NWN2 official offerings.

 

Fortunately I just had a refreshing experience with what I consider the best of NWN2 offerings: MoW.

[Luminus]

I dont' see anything old school about lack of story, lack of characters. BG2/BG2 had great characters and story. SoZ has almost nothing for the player. I do see the value for builders. But for players this is the worse of NWN2 official offerings.

 

Fortunately I just had a refreshing experience with what I consider the best of NWN2 offerings: MoW.

It's old-school because it let's you create your party from scratch. Before BG, many DnD RPGs on DOS had you create your party from scratch and then adventure.
Icewind Dale 1 and 2 is the same because it let's you create your party from scratch as well. Baldur's Gate is not the only old-school DnD RPG.

In PnP it's the same where your party is usually a group of nobodies that do whatever adventuring and then create their own stories instead of starting with epic destinies or being children of gods.

What does it have it for the player? The ability to create your full party. I made a party of 6 drow and had a blast. You cannot do that in the other campaigns, not without mods. And even then it's not supported by the story.

And trying out different parties consisting of different themes is also fun. For example, instead of a party of Drow you could make a party of orcs or yuan-ti or all six planetouched, or a party of elves or short people.

Also that mechanic where you choose who talks to NPCs for each sentence is just divine and very fun. No matter the protagonist being forced to do all the talking and bartering.

I also enjoyed the lower magic/higher difficulty exploration part a lot and not being able to get up after "dying" when the battle ended was a plus.
So "worse" is pretty relative and subjective.
They are different campaigns focusing on different things.

[GCoyote]

Like he said it is very, 'relative and subjective'.

 

I've installed the SoZ Holiday expansion and am now running a party based on the "Mythbusters". I'm enjoying myself precisely because I need a distraction right now that doesn't require a deep involvement in an unfamiliar story. I need to goof off for a couple of hours and this is a near perfect vehicle for my current mood. 

[kevL]

conclusion: SoZ is like a quantum particle, capable of occupying multiple states at once

jk

[GCoyote]

conclusion: SoZ is like a quantum particle, capable of occupying multiple states at once
jk

My office cat both agrees and disagrees.

[kevL]

lol

[Jereniva]

Baldur's Gate is "old school"?

man, I'm getting really old then, lol.

[Tchos]

People in the other parts of this forum are already calling Dragon Age: Origins "old school" and saying it needs a HD remake.

[rjshae]

In many respects SoZ wasn't all that different from some of the old Gold Box games that some people still rave about. But yes, I wasn't all that excited by the game itself. The OM is still a cool concept that more games could use. I'd like to see it employed with a sci-fi space opera, for example, to add large scale world exploration.

 

Funny thing about DA:O: people in general seemed to pan it when the game first came out, but now they're all positive about DA:O when it is compared to DA2.

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, just for the record, I was definitely NOT referring to BG when I said "old school".

Even then, though, BG wasn't really all that focused on the story. Yes, it was technically story driven and all, but most of the game was a sandbox, and companions were silent 99% of the time. BG2 was an improvement in that regard.

[Tchos]

Funny thing about DA:O: people in general seemed to pan it when the game first came out, but now they're all positive about DA:O when it is compared to DA2.

 

My own reviews of it were extremely positive at the time (as the first party-based RPG I'd played), and my enthusiasm only diminished a bit when I went from DA:O to Baldur's Gate and NWN2, which I found to be superior.

[Arkalezth]

Funny thing about DA:O: people in general seemed to pan it when the game first came out, but now they're all positive about DA:O when it is compared to DA2.

Really? I remember only good reviews about it. Personally, I've always liked it. I generally liked DA2 too, though much less than DAO. Despite all its flaws, I still find it a fun game. Inquisition is easily my least favourite of the bunch.

[ShinsFortress]

I rather like SoZ, but was miffed at certain bugs that really shouldn't have been in there.

[Lilura]

Overland encounters tedious and repetitive

 

You're probably long gone now, but anyone else who is having problems with the overland should read this.