128 réponses à ce sujet

[Akuma47]

That might be true for you, but its not what I am experiencing.  Even beginning to sprint once he goes underground,there's no guarantee that I will escape his attack off-host.  And no, im not running into things/enemies/teammates, and neither is my router a spaghetti noodle.  

 

Any solutions besides jumping and negating the attack, o mighty DC dodger?  

 

I have similar experience. Most BS was on archer using evade and still getting hit, or on warrior while using the roll. I was like WTF should I do BW when the tools you gave me dont freaking work? Dodge skills should have invulnerability while in execution, would help a lot with some BS latency/lag/dunnowhat issues.

[holdenagincourt]

It's trivial to avoid on host, nigh-impossible on anything more than minimal lag unless you're using Fade Cloak (and if you blow that on pop-up you'll just get lolslowed into lolpanic and have no cleanse). Even rogue Evade utterly fails because there are too many startup frames on the move.

 

I play off host 75% of the time to friends in Australia/NZ from North America and the dismissal around here of how unbalanced DC is to off-host players when the game is as buggy and lag-intolerant as it is really irritates me.

[coldflame]

Just soloed him while my party watched from the fade.

Very laggy host with no evading abilities (fade step would drag me back halfway so i decided not to use it). Playing with a necromancer. Unless you are connecting to your router via a spaghetti noodle then there is no excuse as to why you cant dodge him.

You mind showing us the video where you dodged the DC in the game with the "very laggy" host? So we could all learn from your awesomeness.

[-PenguinFetish-]

You mind showing us the video where you dodged the DC in the game with the "very laggy" host? So we could all learn from your awesomeness.

Why on earth would i record a laggy game? I host my games because im a good host to other people, so everyone wins. Im not going to waste my time by finding a bad host, hoping we roll demons, hoping we dont disconnect, hoping the team can actually make it to wave 5, just to prove that its possible.

If you want to see videos of me dodging off host, go to my reaver, archer or legionnaire build videos. All of them were recorded off host.

[Bocochoco]

Jumping does work so long as his body does not hit you. Also you must be 2 steps away before facing with guard to gain guard and not take the hit. The glyph is restricted to the feet. I found this out on mistake due to a bug glitch game that had my character imbedded into the ground. Only his body and the glyph touching your feet can damage you

[Bestyj669]

He could do with a bit of tweaking on Routine to make him a bit more forgiving, Threatening seems fine and Perilous I wouldn't know since RNG hates me.

 

Also ... PS3 doesn't always seem to render the effect in time (or at all sometimes...). I'd imagine that's not a case for master race / current gen?

[Cirvante]

Is this even true?

 

And threatening.

 

*edit*

Here's a video I made showing a clip from routine and threatening of the DC using this attack. Might be a little difficult with the YT player but I was able to confirm there was no difference in timing for this attack from routine to threatening and I would assume perilous. Haven't had the experience or tried to party up to find out, though.

 

DC dodge by sprinting, routine vs threatening

 

This post is pretty old, but I was speed tanking him on Perilous recently. Since everything is sped up on Perilous, the time to dodge is also shorter. My threatening timing would constantly get me hit, so I had to jump sooner in order to avoid him.

[BelnickISMYNICKNAME]

Link.

 

Its very easy to dodge the instakill move when you know what to look for. Its basically a white/green/black aura that appears a second or two before the DC comes up from the ground. Hope this helps some of you who are having difficulties passing the Demon faction. 

donno why it needed posting, everyone should have enough logical thinking to figure it out, to get it to work is another thing, I have him hit me when I am 10 meter away from his ring, jumping away only works about 30% of the time

[-PenguinFetish-]

donno why it needed posting, everyone should have enough logical thinking to figure it out, to get it to work is another thing

 

I posted this a few days after launch when everybody said that there was no counter. 

 

 

 I have him hit me when I am 10 meter away from his ring, jumping away only works about 30% of the time

 

No he hasn't and no it doesnt.

[Akuma47]

No he hasn't and no it doesnt.

 

Oh, he does. Maybe you are allways hosting or you play on good host but believe me, we do not pull your leg.

Last time I died to him while using flank atack to get away from the circle. I died and he was 6 meters away from me looking at my corpse probably wondering what happened. Only time I can dodge him is with Fade cloack.

 

On the other hand, when I am host even sprinting is sometime enough.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Oh, he does. Maybe you are allways hosting or you play on good host but believe me, we do not pull your leg.

Last time I died to him while using flank atack to get away from the circle. I died and he was 6 meters away from me looking at my corpse probably wondering what happened. Only time I can dodge him is with Fade cloack.

 

On the other hand, when I am host even sprinting is sometime enough.

Can you link me to a single video where this happens? Because id be willing to bet that you aren't dodging him correctly. Find me a video where you are hit 10 meters away from the edge of the ring and ill be more than happy to admit im wrong.  

[Cirvante]

Can you link me to a single video where this happens? Because id be willing to bet that you aren't dodging him correctly. Find me a video where you are hit 10 meters away from the edge of the ring and ill be more than happy to admit im wrong.  

 

He said he was using Flank Attack. Some skills like that and Fallback Plan aren't reliable to dodge him off-host because your new position doesn't get updated quick enough or something.

 

But even on a particularly laggy host, bunny hopping while sprinting has a high chance of dodging his move.

[Chade]

Standing on a staircase can also help you prevail, just run up or down when you get the tell. Will miss you because of the elevation.

[orskar]

I've found it reasonably easy to avoid as a mage with fade step or a rogue with evade by just sprinting and dodging whenever he disappears but that is usually at the expense of being able to assist properly with the adds. Only times I've been in party that beats it on anything higher than routine is where the rest of the team were competent at cleaning up the adds fast so we could leave the DC to last. What is especially annoying is that it can one-shot tanks too, making the warriors almost worthless vs demons. I was enjoying playing legionnaire and tanking everything until I faced DC on threatening and seeing it one-shot me through guard in a way templar commander never could.

 

Had the best success against it yesterday playing as Arcane warrior and sprinting around when it disappeared with some fade-stepping if I thought it was about to hit me/I got hit and wanted to avoid the follow up scream. I would also occasionally drop Pull of the Abyss to help the aoe guys kill all the adds really fast. However, I dislike the idea that I have to constantly stick to a certain character type if I want to be sure of finishing missions. 

 

 

 

The thing is that templar and mage bosses are manageable for a decent pug so I don't see why DC isn't on a similar strength as them. Sure the attack is telegraphed but with all the stuff going on, it's easy to miss and seems out of place in damage with every other boss stages. Right now it's near impossible to get a pug Perilous match going as I'm guessing no one wants to take the risk of getting demons on that difficulty. I'm sure a private group can stomp DC easily but tbh this game's multiplayer isn't active enough imo to get good private groups going.

 

Two things for me that need to be changed on DC:

Ground jump ability damage needs to be toned down a bit, since there aren't any other attacks that can one-shot so rapidly regardless of where you are (maybe like 25% less damage)

Needs to be physical stunned/interruptible in some way when doing slow attack or have some way of breaking free of the lengthy panicked status (at least on routine)

 

 

 

Also, venatori mage commander attacks need a buff, her attacks are pretty laughable and she just gets treated as one of the mob. Maybe have her attacks do a lot more elemental/dispel effects.

[JRandall0308]

Payback Strike, Combat Roll (upgraded), and Stealth (upgraded) can get you out of the panicked effect. As can quaffing a potion of healing.

 

Any other ways out of panicked?

[CitizenThom]

I'm usually in constant motion when the demon commander goes underground, I still get hit a lot. So it's not simply about moving out of the target when the smoke puffs and ring flashes, lag seems to be an issue.

 

Of course, on bad connections I've had venatauri archers seemingly one hit kill me as five shots hit me all at once when my system catches up with the host after some lag.

[Madhojo]

The aura does not always show either, making it impossible to know if the DC is about to hit you.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

I find I only have trouble seeing the aura when all hell has broken loose. Depending what character I am playing, I try to kill the DC away from the group alone so I can control the fight more easily.

[-PenguinFetish-]

The aura does not always show either, making it impossible to know if the DC is about to hit you.

 

Yes it does. Link me a video where it doesn't, because I am willing to bet large amounts of money that you cant find one.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Yes it does. Link me a video where it doesn't, because I am willing to bet large amounts of money that you cant find one.

I think people take not noticing it as it not happening. When **** hits the fan it is very easy to miss.

[MaxCrushmore]

Payback Strike, Combat Roll (upgraded), and Stealth (upgraded) can get you out of the panicked effect. As can quaffing a potion of healing.

 

Any other ways out of panicked?

 

Activating fade step also cancels the effect of panic, assuming you don't activate it on time to avoid in the first place (or it was on CD)

 

The aura always shows when the DC is about to attack you. On host you can easily avoid this by moving and jumping. In my experience, off host this does not work too often. That's when I focus on using my kits evasive power to avoid the DC.

 

Also, as I do not believe it is mentioned nearly enough, the best overall defense vs the DC is the Spirit Resistance Tonic which provides a %60 damage reduction from his attacks for 150 seconds (or longer than the duration of the zone 5 fight)

[orskar]

the tonic sounds like a good idea, just got to hope the rest of your pug uses it. others in the party going down is the main thing making demon commander hard for me, as it all falls apart when someone needs to be revived. it actually wouldn't be so bad if you could revive people with worrying about DC popping up on you mid revive and then spamming it's scream to stunlock you in time before you can get up and dodge away from the killing blow.

 

at the moment demon commander fight is the only time I find myself using any kind of flask on threatening.

 

 

 

I also meant by "breaking free" that some way to escape when your dodge is on cooldown, like how you can deal with the similar demon adds by using knock down abilities when they start their scream attack. it is very easy to get caught out if you had just used it to dodge a previous panic scream and the DC rapidly dived and used a new panic scream close by. for me the thing really needs more than 3 abilities with barely no cooldown. even templar commander, with it's occasionally untouchable attacks, can be safely engaged in melee for a little bit as it will sometimes seem to be waiting on cooldowns. Taking out a DC is all ranged attacks and melee guys have to just stick to adds. the thing would be as easy as templar and the mage if you could actually close in and get some solid hits on it with your reaver/dw rogue/arcane warrior/other melee dps.

[Cirvante]

Yes it does. Link me a video where it doesn't, because I am willing to bet large amounts of money that you cant find one.

 

I have noticed a few rare times that the tell can be a lot more subtle, perhaps overridden by another visual effect and less pronounced due to standing still.

[orskar]

coming back to say that spirit resistant tonics + kiting the heck out of it outside, far away from everyone else, works well. all the adds end up rushing up to the rest of your party so you can just focus on screwing about with the DC and the odd add who directly gets in your way.

 

very nice with fade step or charging bull since you can work it's health down while kiting and zipping through it seems to throw off its dive attacking since it will try and hit you with the scream. most of my preferred classes have some method of kiting it back and forth so I don't mind taking that job on at the expense of gettting kills just to get the operation finished.

 

 

only really lose now to DC if my party is doing something dumb like trying to tank it or the host is band and I'm rubberbanding.

 

 

oh and the cloud is pretty noticeable if you know what to look for. my main issue there is that some status effects that some of the adds put on you look slightly like the DC cloud, so I end up wasting a dodge move.

[CitizenThom]

It depends, if there are a lot of greys and blacks on the map you're playing (you know like the crystals that are all over when demons are the enemy) the first puff of black can sneak up on you.