74 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

Does Kieran exist in world states without a DR? (Haven't experienced that yet.) 

Spoiler

Kieran can be a normal boy if the Warden romanced Morrigan but didn't do the ritual. You only interact with him once though and and from then on he's just an idle npc. Morrigan's epilogue slide even ignores him completely

[KiwiQuiche]

So, what. Flemeth just stoped by to say "Sup, ho, I'm Mythal. Now f*** off." haha, I prefer the OGB version, in that case

 

Lmao that's...actually pretty close. Flemeth does just show up and kinda pokes at Morrigan about her choices while her daughter rages at her. But yeah, the scene with no OGB/Kieran goes just like that. She gives some advice then tells Morrigan off for getting the wrong end of the stick with the Body Switch/Immoirtality thing before she leaves in a puff of smoke.

 

But yeah, drama is better if you have the OGB, especially when Morrigan tells Flemeth she isn't going to be a terrible mother like she is. That's a good punch in the gut from her, flinging it at a Goddess of motherhood. Flemeth's expression is just...ouch.

[Alejandrawrr]

I can definitely understand why Bioware had Flemeth take it--they sort of wrote themselves into a corner. This lets them remove a hanging plot thread in a not completely stupid way, though I'm still not entirely sure what Flemeth did exactly to Urthemiel's soul--did she release it into the afterlife?

 

I'm just disappointed that I'm never going to see Kieran turn into a high dragon-god.

 

Also, Claudia Black really earned her paycheck in that scene. The voice acting when she was begging Flemeth not to hurt her soon nearly drove me to tears.

Agreed, all things considered they made the right choice eliminating that hanging thread, even excusing the lack of subtlety. No more "will we play as the OGB now? How bout NOW?"

And I don't think OGB!Kieran losing the Archdemon spirit necessarily eliminates the chance of him having unusual powers; he did still harbor the spirit of an Old God for 10 years, there are a lot of possibilities there, much he could have learned from interactions with the spirit, effects the exposure could have had on his human soul, etc. If I were to get my way, he'd be a companion in a future game 10 years down the line, with a unique and powerful mage class, or a shapeshifter like Morrigan with the ability to go High Dragon, etc. Or they could be more ambitious if they so chose... This is all hypothetical, however, as I doubt the devs would put the time and resources into making these possibilities for a character which very well may not exist (if you didn't choose the DR obviously). The moral of the story is, the insane OGB fan theory continues indefinitely    

Oh, and I agree that the scene was fantastic. They were extremely simple, but it featured my favorite line(s) in the entire game ("Mother!" "... Mother").
 

I'm not sure Fen'Harel absorbed anything. I think it was the other way around. Or maybe both - maybe they combined into something more.

This is what I think too. People who think Solas forcibly stole Flemeth/Mythal's soul are at least a little off the mark (and anyone who interpreted it the other way around is even more wrong). It very clearly looked like a binding of souls of some sort given the dialogue, I'm gonna just say Fen'harel/Mythal have a similar goal. And regardless of who "possessed" who, the entity we're left with will certainly not be "Flemeth" or "Solas" as we know them... One does not simply put 3/4 souls into one body and expect there not to be severe changes (poor Solasmancers  ). That being said, hopefully this isn't used as an excuse to make them/it a weak chaotic evil antagonist in a future game.

 

I'm the opposite of this, it's hard to have an emotional connection to a franchise if each game has a new protagonist and completely new characters, especially if none of then return. Bioware games are all about the characters and the world for me, because the major stories are usually pretty bad, but the characters are developed and likable enough for me to keep coming back.

Agreed. If anything, I'd like the next game to feature mainly characters from DAI (Sera can go though), for a fictional work with such good casts of characters, BW really limits themselves with the "totally new cast every installment" thing. Especially in the case of DAI, because in spite of it being a highly enjoyable game, the actual story mode was possibly the shortest yet - I feel like most of the characters we have have barely been explored at all beyond the surface unlike Origins which had a much broader scope (+ DLCs like Witch Hunt for Morrigan, Awakening for The Warden, books and later cameos for Alistair & co, etc). Ideally DA4 will be an ME-style sequel, with our Inquisitor, a good chunk of Inquisition's cast (minus a few for plot-reasons, like the Divine candidates), etc. But this is a huge digression, I suppose.

[Fardreamer]

Has ANYONE done a playthrough without Keiran appearing? Does Morrigan always have a kid? How does the whole scene with Flemeth play without him and the Old God soul?

I did one with no kid. And no,nhe never shows ups, so I was really confused when people were talking about him at first.

[Mathias]

Well, Bioware made it very clear that the Dark Ritual was not and never would be canon, so it couldn't have become a major plot point.  There are to many ways that it would never have happened, popular a choice though it may be.

 

I just want to comment that that's a mistake on Bioware's part. OGB would've made some really interesting material for future stories.

[Kajuana]

It is very clear that Kieran grows up to become the "Star Child" in Mass Effect...

[DarkSpiral]

I just want to comment that that's a mistake on Bioware's part. OGB would've made some really interesting material for future stories.

 

There I have to agree with you, but DA:O wasn't planned out with sequels in mind, I don't think.  It was the first time Bioware released their own IP, and they packed as much into it as they could.  Now that it (Dragon Age) is a franchise is it any wonder they don't have decisions that are quite so drastically different than each other in DA2 and DAI?

 

Different in ramification, if not in how the end of the game they occur in changes, at any rate.

[Element Zero]

There I have to agree with you, but DA:O wasn't planned out with sequels in mind, I don't think.  It was the first time Bioware released their own IP, and they packed as much into it as they could.  Now that it (Dragon Age) is a franchise is it any wonder they don't have decisions that are quite so drastically different than each other in DA2 and DAI?
 
Different in ramification, if not in how the end of the game they occur in changes, at any rate.

Not the first time with an in-house IP. You're forgetting Jade Empire. That was a great game. I've always wished we could get another game in that world, provided a worthy story could be crafted.

[DarkSpiral]

Not the first time with an in-house IP. You're forgetting Jade Empire. That was a great game. I've always wished we could get another game in that world, provided a worthy story could be crafted.

 

You're so right, I did forget about Jade Empire.  Damn I want a second game in that universe.

[LordParbr]

Why are people posting in spoiler tags in a section in which your free to talk about things spoilers included? lol.

People around here are overly polite when it comes to spoilers. We're on a board marked for spoilers, in a thread marked for spoilers, but they'll still berate you for not using spoiler tags on your individual posts sometimes. By that point, you're just coddling people. It's ridiculous.

[LordParbr]

Lmao that's...actually pretty close. Flemeth does just show up and kinda pokes at Morrigan about her choices while her daughter rages at her. But yeah, the scene with no OGB/Kieran goes just like that. She gives some advice then tells Morrigan off for getting the wrong end of the stick with the Body Switch/Immoirtality thing before she leaves in a puff of smoke.

 

But yeah, drama is better if you have the OGB, especially when Morrigan tells Flemeth she isn't going to be a terrible mother like she is. That's a good punch in the gut from her, flinging it at a Goddess of motherhood. Flemeth's expression is just...ouch.

Yeah, the whole scene with the OGB is just heartbreaking.

Every time I read "OGB," I think of ODB...

[ChiPsiUp]

The only other way would be if they did the whole the Rachni Queen ME3 thing, where they completely invalidate and make your earlier game choice pointless. 

 

"You killed the Rachni Queen in ME1? Well turns out there's another one here!" 

 

Honestly, this is the best we can hope for. 

 

Well, Bioware made it very clear that the Dark Ritual was not and never would be canon, so it couldn't have become a major plot point.  There are to many ways that it would never have happened, popular a choice though it may be.

[NugHugs]

Has ANYONE done a playthrough without Keiran appearing? Does Morrigan always have a kid? How does the whole scene with Flemeth play without him and the Old God soul?

 

Sure, I've done a playthrough with Morrigan having a normal kid. I enjoyed how differently the cutscenes went.

Flemeth still appears, but it's under different circumstances.

 

Though, I kinda prefer the old god baby version. Seeing Morrigan become emotional was totally worth it.

[FireAndBlood]

Sure, I've done a playthrough with Morrigan having a normal kid. I enjoyed how differently the cutscenes went.

Flemeth still appears, but it's under different circumstances.

 

Though, I kinda prefer the old god baby version. Seeing Morrigan become emotional was totally worth it.

Can you explain how the cut scenes were different?

[sylvanaerie]

I can definitely understand why Bioware had Flemeth take it--they sort of wrote themselves into a corner. This lets them remove a hanging plot thread in a not completely stupid way, though I'm still not entirely sure what Flemeth did exactly to Urthemiel's soul--did she release it into the afterlife?

 

I'm just disappointed that I'm never going to see Kieran turn into a high dragon-god.

 

Also, Claudia Black really earned her paycheck in that scene. The voice acting when she was begging Flemeth not to hurt her soon nearly drove me to tears.

 

I agree.  My favorite scene in the game (except for finding Skyhold) and the only one to make me actually cry.  

 

You can really hear a mother's anguish in her voice and for once, Flemeth seems to be moved by her plea.  Excellent animation, voice acting from both Claudia Black and Kate Mulgrew.

[eternalshiva]

Nothing like insulting Julia Black's own kid, on his very first voice job. How manly. He sounds younger than 10 years old, that's the only issue.

[Trickshaw]

Nothing like insulting Julia Black's own kid, on his very first voice job. How manly. He sounds younger than 10 years old, that's the only issue.

Who's Julia Black?

[Taleroth]

Nothing like insulting Julia Black's own kid, on his very first voice job. How manly. He sounds younger than 10 years old, that's the only issue.

I've been critical of the voice, but in my defense, I'm apparently quite ignorant of how children with non-American accents sound.

[Teleri13]

Pointless speculation here, but the first thing i though of when i saw the starting thread, you know who behaves in a very similar fashion to Kieren with an Old God Soul: Sandal.  A dwarf of unknown origin, and inexplicable power, found mysteriously in the Deep Roads, and now with the hints of lyrium being a living being in some fashion.  My thoughts just turn back to him.

[Aren]

I just want to comment that that's a mistake on Bioware's part. OGB would've made some really interesting material for future stories.

Sacrifice path  have the greatest impact for the developers they cannot make 2 universe or justify kieran god existence after the Warden's ultimate sacrifice.  i also dislike the fact that for many players Dragon age means only Flemeth/Morrigan/Kieran eleven gods, i mean who care about those fake deity we need more mortal well written character, like Duncan , loghain ecc..

[blahblahblah]

as you can see th US have the greatest impact for the developers they cannot make 2 universe or justify kieran god existence after the Warden's ultimate sacrifice.  i also dislike the fact that for many players Dragon age means only Flemeth/Morrigan/Kieran eleven gods, i mean who care about those fake deity we need more mortal well written character, like Duncan , loghain ecc..

Morrigan is a well-written, more human character in DAI but I know you will ignore that fact.

[Kuosi]

I did one with no kid. And no,nhe never shows ups, so I was really confused when people were talking about him at first.

Well on my latest playthrough I decided to see how it plays out when Morrigan was not romanced, didn't have any baby and was stabbed and fell to the eluvian in witch hunt. Leads to there being no child with him in Skyhold, but Morrigan speaks of the hero of ferelden as his lover and how their son Kieran misses him so much. I haven't finished that one yet so how the rest plays out... but looking bad!

[Edge2177]

Saw what coming? It's not like then end result was something terrible.

Spoiler

Drinking or letting Morrigan drink from the Well of Sorrows is the 'bad' choice. Keiran gets to stay with his mom and Urthemiel's soul gets released into the Fade by Flemeth.

 

I never thought to destroy the well of souls, is that even possible?

[LPPrince]

Fake deities? What? The whole point of the very end of Inquisition was to provide knowledge that the elven deities aren't fake.

[LPPrince]

I never thought to destroy the well of souls, is that even possible?

 

I don't believe so. The only options available are to let Morrigan drink or to let The Inquisitor drink. If there is another option, I did not come across it.