43 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

I don't think any CE I played would ever be able to get past it, but maybe a Dalish would (haven't played that one all the way through). It's just too on the nose after the CE origin.

I have a love/hate thing with playing mages who romance Alistair. I think it's an interesting match, given the parallels between their upbringings, and there is the same potential for bittersweet as there is for elves (maybe even moreso, since it's accepted that humans desire elves, but mages don't have the same "appeal"). My mages are all hellbent on retaining their freedom so they always make him king, even the one who knew he would dump her in the end. I also make them chancellor, and I always feel like that it will become an issue down the road for his main advisor and/or lover to be a mage. I don't get that from other endings. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 08 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't think any CE I played would ever be able to get past it, but maybe a Dalish would (haven't played that one all the way through). It's just too on the nose after the CE origin.

I have a love/hate thing with playing mages who romance Alistair. I think it's an interesting match, given the parallels between their upbringings, and there is the same potential for bittersweet as there is for elves (maybe even moreso, since it's accepted that humans desire elves, but mages don't have the same "appeal"). My mages are all hellbent on retaining their freedom so they always make him king, even the one who knew he would dump her in the end. I also make them chancellor, and I always feel like that it will become an issue down the road for his main advisor and/or lover to be a mage. I don't get that from other endings. 

About city elf:  Agreed.  My very first DA:O character was a city elf who romanced Alistair, but I was so clueless she's a throwaway.  I re-did the city elf origin on my last playthrough and "felt" the story much more.  And like your CE, mine could not romance Alistair for love or money.  I even imagined she had flashbacks of Vaughan the first time she met him.  It was sort of amusing in a dark way, that here Alistair is chattering happily about the Grey Wardens and she is thinking "one wrong move, you bastard, and you get a dagger in your ear."  She loved Zevran and he was as if made for her- who else could show her how to love life again but someone who had gone through so much with the depth of character Zevran has.

My Dalish character did fall in love with Alistair.  As you say, it's the same and different.  I just wrote about this else-thread so I'm repeating myself, but basically, she came to see the GWs as her clan and thus Alistair as a peer and companion.

As for mages, again I agree 100%!!!  I think it is touching that they both can say that they never knew what having a family was like.  OTOH, my mages identify so readily with Zevran's view of his life as a gilded cage.  What better phrase could describe the Tower?  And for my current blood mage- she is romancing Zevran but I plan to make her Alistair's chancellor, and the story has shades of future tragedy all over it.  What sort of hell is going to break loose if Ferelden discovers that a blood mage is at such a high position of responsibility next to the king?

[Sandtigress]

Actually, my City elf was able to fall for Alistair - I played it as more of a thing where she could see how different he was from people like Vaughn. More genuine, for one. Maybe it helped that she never saw Vaughn as doing anything to her, personally, though she very happily took vengeance for what he did to Shianni. And though she did try to pick a fight with Duncan at first, it was more an aggressive way to get him to leave, as opposed to outright hatred of all humans. Though I did have fun telling Cailan where he could take his royal behind. I think that between Duncan, Cailan's rather honest innocence about what was going on in the Alienage, and Alistair's puppy-like innocent enthusiasm, she just realized that not all humans were that bad.

[Nonvita]

Addai67 wrote...

About city elf:  Agreed.  My very first DA:O character was a city elf who romanced Alistair, but I was so clueless she's a throwaway.  I re-did the city elf origin on my last playthrough and "felt" the story much more.  And like your CE, mine could not romance Alistair for love or money.  I even imagined she had flashbacks of Vaughan the first time she met him.  It was sort of amusing in a dark way, that here Alistair is chattering happily about the Grey Wardens and she is thinking "one wrong move, you bastard, and you get a dagger in your ear."  She loved Zevran and he was as if made for her- who else could show her how to love life again but someone who had gone through so much with the depth of character Zevran has.

My Dalish character did fall in love with Alistair.  As you say, it's the same and different.  I just wrote about this else-thread so I'm repeating myself, but basically, she came to see the GWs as her clan and thus Alistair as a peer and companion.

As for mages, again I agree 100%!!!  I think it is touching that they both can say that they never knew what having a family was like.  OTOH, my mages identify so readily with Zevran's view of his life as a gilded cage.  What better phrase could describe the Tower?  And for my current blood mage- she is romancing Zevran but I plan to make her Alistair's chancellor, and the story has shades of future tragedy all over it.  What sort of hell is going to break loose if Ferelden discovers that a blood mage is at such a high position of responsibility next to the king?

I completely agree about replaying the CE origin (actually with any origin). It was so much more potent the second time through, I felt way more hatred toward humans than I did the first time. That said, I still like Alistair as a romance for a CE. It's just so unexpected and against everything she's felt before. It's confusing, and I think that's why it's interesting. There are enough moments in the game where Alistair's sincerity and concern show through, so I imagine it's the first time she's met a human that didn't seem to have cruel intentions. That said, I don't know if it's a real, everlasting love, but hey, my girl ended up with Zevran anyway (and Alistair dead...) so it's all good.

I'm in the Alistair is Fiona's child camp, as well (although I've never read the books). I don't know if it's because I believe it or if I just don't like the idea of more Maric bastards showing up, but it seems right to me. It fits with Alistair's personality, and I think it enhances his story, so I like it. (Now I should go read the books to see if there actually is any evidence.)

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Actually, my City elf was able to fall for Alistair - I played it as more of a thing where she could see how different he was from people like Vaughn. More genuine, for one. Maybe it helped that she never saw Vaughn as doing anything to her, personally, though she very happily took vengeance for what he did to Shianni. And though she did try to pick a fight with Duncan at first, it was more an aggressive way to get him to leave, as opposed to outright hatred of all humans. Though I did have fun telling Cailan where he could take his royal behind. I think that between Duncan, Cailan's rather honest innocence about what was going on in the Alienage, and Alistair's puppy-like innocent enthusiasm, she just realized that not all humans were that bad.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was... impossible, illogical, whatever... for a CE to love Alistair.  Not that I would tell anyone how to play their game anyway, but also as I said somewhere, I think there are innumerable RP possibilities.  Falling in love with the last person in the world you think you could happens in real life and in stories, too.  Vive la surprise.   

Going back to mages, there is also the mage-templar tension which I think makes an interesting element.  My current mage character was sort of a Fiona in my mind, though I ended up taking her a different direction.  But I imagined that if she had romanced Alistair, they would have had a huge fight after she sacrificed Isolde.  There, you have to admit Alistair shows no concern whatsoever that his mage fellow warden had to battle demons by herself in the Fade and no understanding of why she might choose to go that route to spare Redcliffe.  I can see them screaming at each other in camp, she saying something about him doing his templar duty and slaying her if she screwed it up.  And then there is meeting Cullen, and the potential for her suspecting that if Cullen's infatuation could turn so dark, then Alistair's could, too.  It all has great dramatic potential.

[Sandtigress]

If you don't mind some book spoilers, Nonvita, read ahead. I'll try not to put in too many to make my case.





I think the biggest evidence is in Maric's personality. I continue to believe that given Maric's personality - which is a lot like Alistair's, including his thoughts to faithfulness to women - he would not have been the type for a one-night stand, ESPECIALLY while Rowan was alive. AND given his reaction to Fiona presenting him with hopefully baby Alistair - how his first instinct was to have Fiona live in Denerim with him, and how torn he was about letting the baby be raised by someone else thinking his parents didn't want him - it seems highly unlikely that Maric would have allowed multiple bastard children to be raised like that. His reaction didn't feel like "Oh, I've done it before, no big deal" but that it was a very tough decision and one that he was faced with for the first time.



Given that, any way you look at it, Alistair was born after Cailan and after Rowan's death because Fiona's bastard child was the first one, despite what Loghain says, who wasn't present when Fiona came with the baby anyways. Loghain was also never told about the visit - or at least the servants were under strict orders not to tell him.



It makes no sense to me to make up such lies about when he was born if he was just the son of a scullery maid, as your PC can put it. It does, however, make sense if you want to draw any thoughts of his parentage away from the visit of a Orlesian Grey Warden elven mage.

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Actually, my City elf was able to fall for Alistair - I played it as more of a thing where she could see how different he was from people like Vaughn. More genuine, for one. Maybe it helped that she never saw Vaughn as doing anything to her, personally, though she very happily took vengeance for what he did to Shianni. And though she did try to pick a fight with Duncan at first, it was more an aggressive way to get him to leave, as opposed to outright hatred of all humans. Though I did have fun telling Cailan where he could take his royal behind. I think that between Duncan, Cailan's rather honest innocence about what was going on in the Alienage, and Alistair's puppy-like innocent enthusiasm, she just realized that not all humans were that bad.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was... impossible, illogical, whatever... for a CE to love Alistair.  Not that I would tell anyone how to play their game anyway, but also as I said somewhere, I think there are innumerable RP possibilities.  Falling in love with the last person in the world you think you could happens in real life and in stories, too.  Vive la surprise.   

Going back to mages, there is also the mage-templar tension which I think makes an interesting element.  My current mage character was sort of a Fiona in my mind, though I ended up taking her a different direction.  But I imagined that if she had romanced Alistair, they would have had a huge fight after she sacrificed Isolde.  There, you have to admit Alistair shows no concern whatsoever that his mage fellow warden had to battle demons by herself in the Fade and no understanding of why she might choose to go that route to spare Redcliffe.  I can see them screaming at each other in camp, she saying something about him doing his templar duty and slaying her if she screwed it up.  And then there is meeting Cullen, and the potential for her suspecting that if Cullen's infatuation could turn so dark, then Alistair's could, too.  It all has great dramatic potential.

Oh, don't worry, I didn't think that at all.  I enjoy reading the many ways that people can RP the same situations.     I haven't done a female elf yet, I don't know if I will before Awakening comes out.  lol Though I might, if Fiona makes an appearance in Awakening, just to pay that out and see how she feels about her son falling in love with another elven mage.  That could have all sorts of interesting potential!

[Leonia]

I do look forward to meeting Fiona, if anything, she may be able to cure the taint of Alistair and the PC (and all Grey Wardens, really). It would be very emotional for all characters involved. I'll probably tear up if Alistair ever gets to talk to her. Finally, something can go right in his life! (besides having the PC fall in love with him, of course).

As for origins, I prefer the female Dalish elf who is more or less an orphan raised by her clan (which promptly disappears from her life when Duncan recruits her). There may be the little romance thing with Tamlen going on, but I get the feeling my character was a loner and has much in common with Alistair, other than being a Grey Warden.  She also doesn't share the human prejudices of city elves, rather she probably hasn't encountered many humans at all in the Brecilian forest.

So, I feel like she comes into the Grey Wardens with an open mind, never having much knowledge about Fereldan politics and generally feeling pretty alien in the human world.  I always feel awkward about her being the party leader because she knows so little about the world outside Brecilian forest so it feels like she relies on her companions. Particularily, she relies on Alistair and his knowledge on Grey Wardens and she begins to treat him as a comrade in arms, a brother of sorts. Then later it develops into something more than that, they both are focused on their duty to the Grey Wardens because they have no family outside of the Order, not really anyway.

So maybe not quite the same as city elf, but it certainly is still interesting. Oh how I wish we had more dialogue opportunities with Alistair, would love to have had a more detailed conversation about Tamlen and then maybe have it lead into my PC missing her clan and maybe Alistair could have been comforting and knightlly and oh.. I better just get this out of my system and write a fanfic, eh?

Modifié par leonia42, 09 février 2010 - 03:11 .

[Addai]

Re a Dalish romance with Alistair, when the Tamlen camp scene happened- which made me so distraught, it was probably the most emotional the game has made me- I thought back to early in the game when Alistair asks you about the Dalish funeral practice. When you tell him about the tree, his comment is "life from death... that is beautiful." He says it so admiringly, it is the one time in the game besides that awkward pre-tent comment where you can see his appreciation for elves. Anyway, I pictured my Dalish warden kneeling long into the night by Tamlen's body, and finally coming to Alistair and asking him to help her do what she had told him about. They probably couldn't find a tree sapling to plant, and anyway the clan had already done that for Tamlen, but she would at least seek out the most beautiful tree they could find near the camp and bury him at its base.

I kill myself with stuff like this.

I finally finished The Calling, BTW (I had only a few pages left and already knew this spoiler) and now I'm really pulling for Fiona to be Alistair's mama! She HAS to be!! I think they are putting Anders out there to throw us off the trail, sneaky writers. I don't know about the amulet- it seems Alistair would recognize a Warden amulet, and Fiona makes no mention of being any sort of Andrastian. I wonder if it was Maric's gift.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 février 2010 - 05:04 .

[Leonia]

Addai67 wrote...

Re a Dalish romance with Alistair, when the Tamlen camp scene happened- which made me so distraught, it was probably the most emotional the game has made me- I thought back to early in the game when Alistair asks you about the Dalish funeral practice. When you tell him about the tree, his comment is "life from death... that is beautiful." He says it so admiringly, it is the one time in the game besides that awkward pre-tent comment where you can see his appreciation for elves. Anyway, I pictured my Dalish warden kneeling long into the night by Tamlen's body, and finally coming to Alistair and asking him to help her do what she had told him about. They probably couldn't find a tree sapling to plant, and anyway the clan had already done that for Tamlen, but she would at least seek out the most beautiful tree they could find near the camp and bury him at its base.

I kill myself with stuff like this.

I finally finished The Calling, BTW (I had only a few pages left and already knew this spoiler) and now I'm really pulling for Fiona to be Alistair's mama! She HAS to be!! I think they are putting Anders out there to throw us off the trail, sneaky writers. I don't know about the amulet- it seems Alistair would recognize a Warden amulet, and Fiona makes no mention of being any sort of Andrastian. I wonder if it was Maric's gift.

Didn't you get just so excited after finishing that epilogue? It was a great tie-in with Origins since much of Origins revolves around Alistair/Grey Wardens (I mean, come on, if there was no PC, the entire story would be Alistair fighting the blight on his own). It also had a nice Star Warsy feel, what with Duncan watching over the child and all. With all of  the depressing stuff that goes on in the Dragon Age universe, it was a real "awww!" kind of ending

Modifié par leonia42, 09 février 2010 - 06:06 .

[Sandtigress]

Addai, I LOVE your little scene! lol I've got all sorts of my own in my head...sometimes I'm tempted to write them out, but I'm supposed to be writing my thesis, not fanfic,...just have to keep reminding myself of that. Thesis, not fanfic....

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Addai, I LOVE your little scene! lol I've got all sorts of my own in my head...sometimes I'm tempted to write them out, but I'm supposed to be writing my thesis, not fanfic,...just have to keep reminding myself of that. Thesis, not fanfic....

Aw, thank you.  I'm always thinking up stuff like that though I don't write fanfiction.  Well, some Tolkien.  A little.  I hate to admit that.  Habit from my MUSHing days.

Anyway.  The amulet I don't know about, but what I wonder is if the "runic worry token" that Alistair carries could be Fiona's.  Argh, I am working myself up and then if he isn't Fiona's son it's going to be an adjustment.

I am going to hazard a guess that there are other Alistair fangirls on this thread.  Let me just say that Alistair looks amazing in Cailan's armor with Maric's sword.  I resisted putting it on him until the Landsmeet, and it was perfect.  Now we're off to the final battle and... just... squeeeee...  After doing Return to Ostagar, it was also so much more poignant when in his battle speech Alistair talks about avenging the death of his brother King Cailan.  (So nice he gets to acknowledge it publicly that Cailan was his brother, whereas in RtO he had to simply call him "my king.")


Vanity shot of the royal couple in Redcliffe Castle, the night before the final battle.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 février 2010 - 08:23 .

[SurelyForth]

Anyway. The amulet I don't know about, but what I wonder is if the "runic worry token" that Alistair carries could be Fiona's. Argh, I am working myself up and then if he isn't Fiona's son it's going to be an adjustment.

I don't think the amulet is hers, but I did wonder about the token. I, too, am a little too hopeful that he is Fiona's son, and that she will be in Awakening. I am expecting to be sorely disappointed.



I still think the Warden Commander Armor in silverite is my favorite look for Alistair, but he will be rocking Cailan's armor Landsmeet on from here on out. He also carries Maric's sword, but since he's DW in my games he doesn't get the shield (or Duncan's shield. I always feel guilty when I have to unequip it). My PC's are always jealous because by the end game they're still in standard-issue medium armor or robes and he's looking fabulous in his big, badass armor.

[Sandtigress]

The runic worry token says he found it on the battlefield though - unless Duncan planted it there for him to find, I really doubt its Fiona's.  We could, however, speculate that his love for magic comes from her!


I adore Alistair in the Warden Commander armor.  lol I postpone the proposition scenes now until I can put him in it.  My HNF is sword and shield as well, so she's in the dragonbone heavy plate, and was in Effort before that.  They make a mighty fine looking couple like that. 

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

My PC's are always jealous because by the end game they're still in standard-issue medium armor or robes and he's looking fabulous in his big, badass armor.

Definitely!  My PC above is wearing Wade's Superior Dragonskin and there aren't even any pretty flourishes on it like the dragonbone plate.  Ah well, Princess Stabbity is a rogue and prefers to blend into the shadows anyway, the better to stick a poisoned dagger in someone's back.  Also, being a big shiny golden target on the battlefield didn't exactly work out well for Cailan.  Hm... not sure my character has thought about that, actually.  Oh well, he stays in the shiny.

Edit:  Oh, and if he's DW, he could carry Duncan's sword as well as Maric's?

Modifié par Addai67, 09 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

The runic worry token says he found it on the battlefield though - unless Duncan planted it there for him to find, I really doubt its Fiona's.  We could, however, speculate that his love for magic comes from her!

Ah, I hadn't read that, shame on me.  But agreed about the magic!  And being that templars use limited magic and he says he was good at his templar training, that fits as well.

[SurelyForth]

He could have Duncan's sword, but I took it for myself (along with Duncan's dagger). I can't let him have all the nice things. When I play a mage, he'll be up to his ears in family/mentor memorabilia.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

He could have Duncan's sword, but I took it for myself (along with Duncan's dagger). I can't let him have all the nice things. When I play a mage, he'll be up to his ears in family/mentor memorabilia.

This game I was torn whether to let him use Starfang or Maric's sword.  I did RtO early enough that Starfang had better stats.  So, SF it was, apart from the Deep Roads and now in the final battle.

I do like the Warden Commander on him, too, and usually have that on him.  Just think the gold goes well with his coloring, not to mention the kingly fancy decoration.  *sigh*  This is such a female discussion.  Like Alistair really cares about the color of his armor.  LOL  Though he does love that templar stuff, at least facetiously!

[Sandtigress]

Haha, I was gonna say, he says he kept his templar uniform because it was so stylish, and he's very concerned with how his shirt hangs - enough to beg Wynne to do his mending for him!  I think our Alistair is at least a little stylish, even if he does wear filthy socks.     I mean, how many guys do you know who even use the phrase "hangs all wrong" when it comes to a shirt?