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[Xilizhra]

Petty: Reading this thread, it's apparent that people see Sera this way. Can we point out any instances of Alistair being petty? The short answer is yes, and a good example of that is selecting the surprised answer to "I'm Maric's son". "I can't marry you because you're not human". Hmm, seems like one of the "popular" characters in the lore shares a lot in common with Sera, only, it seems, he gets a pass because reasons.

That's more him being actually politically forbidden to.

 

 

That's not all, there are lots of revelations at the Well of Sorrows that show that the Dalish really don't have a clue about their past. The sad part of this, I'm actually Pro-Elf in the lore, but even I can't ignore the things that I learned there.

Sadly inevitable. It matters not. I still will fight for the Dalish.

[Aimi]

Were I in this situation... my preferred reaction would be to whip out the Anchor, propose that it can likely open Fade rifts in addition to closing them, and then threaten to throw Sera into it and seal it behind her.

Propose? You do just that in the Prologue, and

Spoiler

at Adamant.

Seems to me that it's an awfully over-the-top punishment to mete out to somebody for the sin of being correct, though.

[robertthebard]

That's more him being actually politically forbidden to.
 
 
Sadly inevitable. It matters not. I still will fight for the Dalish.

He was forbidden from revealing it. He was not forbidden from not being a douche when you learn it and actually act surprised to find out. There is a difference there. Keeping secrets is one thing, blaming me for his keeping the secret is something else entirely.

[Xilizhra]

Propose? You do just that in the Prologue, and

Spoiler

at Adamant.

Seems to me that it's an awfully over-the-top punishment to mete out to somebody for the sin of being correct, though.

For being that incalculably callous, not to mention stupid, about it? I think that my Inquisitor would be suitably enraged.

 

Of course, it wouldn't happen, because my Inquisitor is also lesbian and wouldn't romance Solas. But still. It'd be mostly to make a point about the horrors of being lost.

 

 

He was forbidden from revealing it. He was not forbidden from not being a douche when you learn it and actually act surprised to find out. There is a difference there. Keeping secrets is one thing, blaming me for his keeping the secret is something else entirely.

I meant forbidden from marrying a Warden who isn't a human noble.

[robertthebard]

For being that incalculably callous, not to mention stupid, about it? I think that my Inquisitor would be suitably enraged.
 
Of course, it wouldn't happen, because my Inquisitor is also lesbian and wouldn't romance Solas. But still. It'd be mostly to make a point about the horrors of being lost.
 
 
I meant forbidden from marrying a Warden who isn't a human noble.

While true, he could have handled it differently, instead of proposing that I hang out as his court *edited for television*. The overall point was, however, that despite the Sera hate, there are examples of characters in the lore that, while every bit the hypocrite, weren't considered a "waste of space" in the party.

[iamthespark]

I argued with Sera constantly.  She's just about the exact opposite of my own personality.  I loved that about her -- she just pushed all my buttons and I wanted to yell, but she then made me laugh so hard at other conversation points.  I really like that she was complicated and a spazz.

[yummysoap]

Charles Manson exists in real life too, but that doesn't mean I want him in my party. 

Because the two are totally interchangeable and that's not ludicrous hyperbole or anything. But the glory of it is that you don't have to have her or Charles Manson in your party if you don't want to and I don't think anyone was arguing that you did.
 

 

Realism will always, and should always, take a backseat to what makes the game more enjoyable. Yes, there are people like this in real life. That doesn't mean there should be a character from every demographic. There's also pacifists out there who won't help me fight the enemy, I don't want them in my group. There's hardcore vegans who will leave the group if I do that "hunt some rams for meat for starving refugees" quest. Don't want them either.

 

I never thought I'd be defending Sera. She's far from my favourite party member, but I do think she's well-rounded and a believable product of the Dragon Age universe, not just a representative of an Earth demographic. You're right that just because a character can be easily hated does not make that character well-written but as a vehicle for some alternate perspectives that wouldn't usually be offered by an elf character in the universe I do think she's well-written, and not in the way a pedophile serial killer could be wrongly praised as "well-written" for being easily disgusting to people. I didn't find myself rolling my eyes with her as I usually do with characters that I find too archetypal (though I did feel her dialogue could occasionally get to "memey")  - those are the ones that tend to take me away from the enjoyment I was having with a game. For example I felt that Blackwall - even after his reveal - was rather poorly characterised. To me he seemed rather one-note, always banging on about honorable Grey Wardens despite having no idea what it means to be one with no real in-game way to properly address that. It was so obvious to me that he wasn't a real Warden. The demon in the fade pretty much outright states it if he's in your party at the time, but there's no way to bring it up with him later on. When he's just miraculously immune to the Calling there's no way to properly question him about it (all he does is handwave the question away and the Inquisitor is somehow satisfied  with that). I found these issues with the character much more detrimental to my enjoyment than Sera's short-sightedness and bigotry, which I saw as being deliberate flaws in her character that were a result of her upbringing in a less-than-perfect world, and at least the Inquisitor has the options to challenge her on all of her opinions. And again, if you don't want a character with such flaws in your party there is absolutely no obligation to keep her there. She's the only companion that has the option to outright dismiss her in any base conversation.

[inusannonn]

the cookie scene on the roof. sera explaining telling abit of her story reveals much to what shaped her when she was young.

After that I decided to let her stay maybe decisions and actions my inquisitor makes can have a positive influence to help sera in other DA games.

*edit: I can edit now awesome.

[KiwiQuiche]

I was...more ambient towards Sera and found her funny for a while. Then she called my Inquistor stupid right to her face after admitting she believes in the Elvhen gods- right after seeing Mythal after the Well of Sorrows quest. Like wow, what an intolerant b*tch.

 

Her raging, blind hypocrisy didn't help; always going on how she hates seeing nobles using the common folk then she goes and blithely sends a bunch of commoners to do their deaths to get at a royal without giving a crap? And yells when you point out how hypocritical she is?

 

Also, her utterly atrocious behaviour if you speak to her after breaking up with Solas and your character is extremely upset is completely horrendous and made me hate her outright. Like how disgusting of a friend do you have to be to laugh and jeer out spiteful/scornful comments at them when they're obviously heartbroken?? I'm glad I was able to make my Inquisitor scream at her after that and boot her out. She's a terrible person and yeah, I agree fully with you OP.

[Chaos17]

...a b**ch?  I mean, I understand and agree with her philosophy of 'getting back at arrogant rich people who mistreat those around them', but she's really not that different to them from my observations. She similarly thinks she's kind of better than others, and treats others with needless rudeness - take this paraphrased example of her interacting with Solas:

Solas: <Something Elvish>
Sera: <Fart noise>
Solas: Excuse me?
Sera: Sorry, I only like to talk using real words.

Considering the man's quite polite to you, Sera, was there a reason to mock his passion? No, there wasn't - you did it simply because you could, and believe yourself to be in such a position to judge 'what's appropriate and what's not'. Sera, when it comes down to it, is basically a British Chav. She has good points, but the hypocrisy of her nature seems to escape her, and I doubt she'll have any revelation about it. She's probably the first Bioware companion I'd class as 'consistantly annoying'.

Sera is for me a human in disguise of elf.

She dislike/hate elf a lot if you act like one.

So I don't like her too since I play an elf.

[SirDoctorofTARDIS]

Sera is for me a human in disguise of elf.

She dislike/hate Dalish a lot if you act like one.

So I don't like her too since I play an elf.

 

Fixed

[Basement Cat]

Yeah, Sera is not a nice person. Hypocrisy is one thing: a lot of companions have been hypocritical in the past. My main beef with Sera is that she is static. She has no character growth whatsoever. All the others do (except Solas but he is a special case). That makes her stand out and not in a good way.

 

I'm a little disappointed by that because she has a lot of growing to do and she is by no means stupid. Ignorant and intolerant, yes, but not a complete idiot. She feels a bit like a space filler.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

She feels a bit like a space filler.

I'm not going to lie, but after I experience Sera at first hand and seeing how she's like which I cannot stand her obnoxious behavior, her intolerant attitude. I rather have Harding replace Sera.

[yummysoap]

She was totally right about the Dalish, though. In every game they've been so God-damned self-righteous about their suffering on behalf of humans and how humans took away their culture and oppressed their religion and ancient ways and it turns out this whole time they had NO IDEA about what Mythal or the Dread Wolf are really about and that their own savagery brought about the fall of their culture. They've been operating from this morally superior standpoint without any idea what they're talking about. They couldn't have been more wrong about so many things. Not only that but they've been tattooing ancient slave markings into the faces of their children under the impression that they're respecting their old, sacred ways. What did they do? Find an ancient elven tablet depicting an elf with vallaslin and just assume that since elves are so great and pure they couldn't possibly have been branding people's faces for the wrong reason?

Just read this codex entry on vallaslin pre-Inquisition:
"When the children of our people came of age, they earn the privilege of wearing the vallaslin, the blood writing. It sets us apart from the shemlen, and from the elves who have thrown their lot in with them. It reminds us that we will never again surrender our traditions and beliefs."

 

What a joke, now that we know what we know. I'm sorry if people with Dalish wardens or Inquisitors find that super disrespectful and I'm glad that you can see something redeeming in them because I've always found them to be highly annoying.
 

[Basement Cat]

I'm not going to lie, but after I experience Sera at first hand and seeing how she's like which I cannot stand her obnoxious behavior, her intolerant attitude. I rather have Harding replace Sera.

I'm fine with her being an obnoxious brat. A lot of the other companions are too straight laced anyway and poking fun at them is not a bad thing, but she crosses the line on more than a few occasions.

 

Looking at the various interactions with her she comes across as someone with antisocial personality disorder: impulsive, lack of concern for others, prone to violent anger... She's a piece of work alright.

 

Vivienne is pretty good at shutting her down though.

[KiwiQuiche]

She was totally right about the Dalish, though. In every game they've been so God-damned self-righteous about their suffering on behalf of humans and how humans took away their culture and oppressed their religion and ancient ways and it turns out this whole time they had NO IDEA about what Mythal or the Dread Wolf are really about and that their own savagery brought about the fall of their culture. They've been operating from this morally superior standpoint without any idea what they're talking about. They couldn't have been more wrong about so many things. Not only that but they've been tattooing ancient slave markings into the faces of their children under the impression that they're respecting their old, sacred ways. What did they do? Find an ancient elven tablet depicting an elf with vallaslin and just assume that since elves are so great and pure they couldn't possibly have been branding people's faces for the wrong reason?

Just read this codex entry on vallaslin pre-Inquisition:
"When the children of our people came of age, they earn the privilege of wearing the vallaslin, the blood writing. It sets us apart from the shemlen, and from the elves who have thrown their lot in with them. It reminds us that we will never again surrender our traditions and beliefs."

 

What a joke, now that we know what we know. I'm sorry if people with Dalish wardens or Inquisitors find that super disrespectful and I'm glad that you can see something redeeming in them because I've always found them to be highly annoying.
 

There is a big difference between finding the fact the Dalish misunderstood the vallslin amusing and laughing scornfully in your friend's face after they've just been broken up with and go to you for comfort.

 

That is what makes Sera a crappy person and a terrible friend. She ignored her 'friend's' distress and thought her vindication towards the Dalish was more important than comforting the Inquisitor. She's a selfish, ignorant ass.

[WildOrchid]

This appears to be the main reason that people don't like Sera (to me anyway, I don't wish to generalise if that isn't the case) but that's the whole point. Sera hates people who think that they're better then others and she wants to leave the past in the past whereas the Dalish DO think that they're better then others BECAUSE of a past culture that they barely remember. The conversation about the vallaslin proves that she is right despite all the talk of flat ears and real elves. 

 

 

Exactly, this.

[Bigdoser]

Exactly, this.

Of course but she does not need to be an ******* about it considering if your elf says it in a nice manner it makes her come off like a ****** and is just as bad as those elves who act like up tight asses. 

 

She is no better than them. 

[yummysoap]

There is a big difference between finding the fact the Dalish misunderstood the vallslin amusing and laughing scornfully in your friend's face after they've just been broken up with and go to you for comfort.

 

That is what makes Sera a crappy person and a terrible friend. She ignored her 'friend's' distress and thought her vindication towards the Dalish was more important than comforting the Inquisitor. She's a selfish, ignorant ass.

They didn't just "misunderstand" the vallaslin. They couldn't have been more wrong about what it represents yet they were so arrogant and prideful about it simply because "ancient elves did it" and therefore it must be great. They wore it not only as a mark of their superiority over humans but also thought it made them better than elves that didn't have it, like Sera, who I'm sure knew that. So yes it was quite amusing to someone like me who does not play an elf, but I totally understand that if you did have a Dalish inquisitor having her laugh in your face over something like that certainly justifies embitterment towards her. I'm not really trying to say she's great or that anyone is wrong for not liking her. I just think she's a decent character and represents an interesting type that we haven't seen that much of in the universe - those of elves who think that they should be characterized by more than their absolutely backwards ideas of their own history and oppression.

[KiwiQuiche]

They didn't just "misunderstand" the vallaslin. They couldn't have been more wrong about what it represents yet they were so arrogant and prideful about it simply because "ancient elves did it" and therefore it must be great. They wore it not only as a mark of their superiority over humans but also thought it made them better than elves that didn't have it, like Sera, who I'm sure knew that. So yes it was quite amusing to someone like me who does not play an elf, but I totally understand that if you did have a Dalish inquisitor having her laugh in your face over something like that certainly justifies embitterment towards her. I'm not really trying to say she's great or that anyone is wrong for not liking her. I just think she's a decent character and represents an interesting type that we haven't seen that much of in the universe - those of elves who think that they should be characterized by more than their absolutely backwards ideas of their own history and oppression.

 

You're still ignoring the fact she scornfully did this to her distress friend's face. If she had waited or something to laugh over the Dalish, fine. But that's all she says to the Inquisitor? "LMAO U WERE SO WRONG *fart noise*"? That is a crappy thing no matter how you try to justify Sera's actions via the attitudes of the Dalish. That wasn't 'the Dalish' she was talking to; it was her upset friend wanting some comfort and all Sera gave her was scorn and spite because she felt her vindicated hate of Dalish was worth more than her friend.

[yummysoap]

Did you even read what I wrote because I'm pretty sure I said that that's a perfectly understandable reason to dislike her.

[KiwiQuiche]

Did you even read what I wrote because I'm pretty sure I said that that's a perfectly understandable reason to dislike her.

 

Yeah but you said it in such a way you think her hate and scornful attitude towards the Dalish Inquisitor is justified as are her actions right afterwards.

[yummysoap]

No. I said her actions towards the Dalish inquisitor justifies embitterment against her. That is the opposite sentiment of what you are accusing me of.

 

I do think she's somewhat... well, maybe not "justified", but I can understand her problems with the Dalish in general. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that she's petty. All I've ever said in this thread is that she's a well-rounded character and a believable product of the universe she lives in and that I'd take that over an overly archetypal character. I'm hardly part of any Sera fan club.

[Zeroth Angel]

This is the exact same way I feel about Alistair. He literally spent all his time in the Party Camp playing with his dolls until his plot armor forced him on me. So, who could I replace him with again? Oh yeah, Loghain, at the end of the game, and guess what, I did it every time. The moral to the story? Just because I don't like a character doesn't mean they are a waste of space, considering how much "squee" Alistair gets, eh?

But let's take this comparison a bit farther, shall we?

Petty: Reading this thread, it's apparent that people see Sera this way. Can we point out any instances of Alistair being petty? The short answer is yes, and a good example of that is selecting the surprised answer to "I'm Maric's son". "I can't marry you because you're not human". Hmm, seems like one of the "popular" characters in the lore shares a lot in common with Sera, only, it seems, he gets a pass because reasons.

No he doesn't get a pass. At least not in my playthrough of Origin. 

 

And I dislike both Alistair and Sera.

[Moondoggie]

Oh Sera,Sera,Sera.... Such a strange character that is like nothing we've encountered in Dragon Age before. There are parts of her that really needed more development and time such as her past. They don't make her easy to sympathise with at all her basic justification to do what she does is because she was lied to by her foster Mother because said person wanted to make her happy. She has very black and white views and can not be reasoned with. On the other hand she's basically exactly as you'd expect a commoner to act. She comes across as a person with no education and no understanding of the world around her which is why she's scared of magic and demons. She's religious without understanding much about what the Chantry is saying she dislikes the Templars and politics but that she believes in the chantry. She has petty hatred of the rich and the Dalish just because and brushes off reasoning because it involves things she does not understand. When i look at similar characters in books they react in the same ways. Sonea from the Black Magician Trilogy starts off very similar but does develop after her situation changes and this is the main issue i can see with Sera. 

She should have had room to develop after joining the Inquisition and having those experiences.