1123 réponses à ce sujet

[Vit246]

When you write a character like Sera, you have the option of either giving her character growth in the end. Or not. Or maybe she actually regresses even further back.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Also, way to cherry pick.

Say what? Cherry picking is ignoring or suppressing elements to twist the meaning. I did nothing of the kind.

You said "No. And clearly you weren't paying attention if you think Lady Emmald told Sera to hate on the baker. Sera said herself Emmald told her the baker didn't like elves so Sera would stay away and never think to go there. Sera then took it upon herself to hate on him and make it him miserable." And that is laughable, as I said.
 

[Primeyuri]

Just this discussion alone is enough to tell she is well written. All companions this time are less likeable but not less interesting than previous game which is good for some and bad for others.

[Rifneno]

Just this discussion alone is enough to tell she is well written.

LOL.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

See this is funny as hell to me.

 

I've HATED the Dalish since I was first introduced to them in DAO.  As others have pointed out here, they were self-righteous, arrogant, bigots who kept playing the martyr-race card over and over again, despite a LOT of evidence that they started the war that resulted in the humans curb-stomping them. 

 

I have long suspected the face tattoos were not what they seemed, simply because of their resemblance to historical real-life convict and slave facial markings. 

 

As for the exchange Sera has with the Dalish Quizzie:

 

    Sera: So, what's going on with your face? You go off with Solas, and now your elfy dealies are gone.
    Lavellan: (Chooses option to tell her) They weren't what I thought. Originally, they were slave markings. Solas told me how they were misinterpreted. The meaning changed.
    Sera: (snickers)
    Lavellan: ...What are you laughing about?
    Sera: The Dalish! They don't know anything. *fart noise* I mean, you know now. But they put on all this "real elf" stuff, and I knew it--it's all just fancy dress. Nobody knows anything about "real elves" except they're gone.
    Lavellan: (top right option) A mistake doesn't mean it's worthless. We can remember, but also choose to grow.
    Sera: There's that "we" stuff again. "We" means "us against them." But I like "them." (chuckling) All those faces. That's just funny.

It's obvious to me that:

1. The Quizzie asks her why she's snickering.  Sera didn't volunteer the reason, your character asked for it.
2. She's not laughing at the Quizzie and even comes out and distinguishes between "you" and the Dalish.  And she's right to be laughing at the Dalish.
3. Friends aren't supposed to be 'yes-men'.  I expect that maybe some folks out there love the idea of friendship involving homogeneity and everyone thinking the same opinions, liking the same things, and never disagreeing, but for my part I expect friends to be more like Sera and calling BS when they see and hear it.

I like Sera.  I'm planning on making a new toon to run-through just for Sera's romance. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Ming, I think you badly misunderstood peoples anger towards Sera in that conversation.

 

This is about her not being a 'Yes man' this is about her delibertly being an ass to her upset friend, ignoring the Inquisitor's hurt feelings and laughing spitefully at her and making no attempt to comfort her friend while she's upset over her breakup with Solas.

 

Do you seriously think that if a friend of yours goes to you for comfort over a break up you should ignore their distress and instead mock their ignorance? 'Cause that's all I'm getting from your post.

[Drasanil]

Say what? Cherry picking is ignoring or suppressing elements to twist the meaning. I did nothing of the kind.

You said "No. And clearly you weren't paying attention if you think Lady Emmald told Sera to hate on the baker. Sera said herself Emmald told her the baker didn't like elves so Sera would stay away and never think to go there. Sera then took it upon herself to hate on him and make it him miserable." And that is laughable, as I said.
 

 

You did. When you ignored the rest of my post where I went on to acknowledge that was Emmald did was bad. But, that in and of itself it wasn't entirely Emmald's fault. Sera bears part of the responsibility for her own actions. It wasn't Emmald alone and Emmald certainly didn't conspire to have Sera to torment the baker, which is how Sera acts. 

[robertthebard]

Ming, I think you badly misunderstood peoples anger towards Sera in that conversation.
 
This is about her not being a 'Yes man' this is about her delibertly being an ass to her upset friend, ignoring the Inquisitor's hurt feelings and laughing spitefully at her and making no attempt to comfort her friend while she's upset over her breakup with Solas.
 
Do you seriously think that if a friend of yours goes to you for comfort over a break up you should ignore their distress and instead mock their ignorance? 'Cause that's all I'm getting from your post.

Not much to misunderstand, she told it like it is, and people got mad. It's pretty basic. It's pretty common too.

Edit: Forgot one point here: If my friend went out and got their significant other's name tattooed on their neck, and then had a big ass blow up, resulting in a split, you'd bet your ass I'd be laughing. Guess what, if the shoe were on the other foot, they would be too.

Context is everything. For Ages, literally, Dalish have been using the mark to show their superiority to other elves, only to find out, "Hey, guess what, you really didn't have a clue what it meant". Yeah, that's pretty ironic, and funny, in an ironic way as well. Turns out that the majority of what the Dalish believed was a lie, and they built their whole "civilization" around that lie. I've always been, and remain pro-Elf in the universe, but I can see how she thinks that's funny.

[KiwiQuiche]

Not much to misunderstand, she told it like it is, and people got mad. It's pretty basic. It's pretty common too.

So you think delibertly mocking your upet friend after they've just been dumped is totally fine and scoffing at how upset they are is 'like it is'? Wow, I feel bad for your friends if any of them ever go to you for comfort.

[robertthebard]

You did. When you ignored the rest of my post where I went on to acknowledge that was Emmald did was bad. But, that in and of itself it wasn't entirely Emmald's fault. Sera bears part of the responsibility for her own actions. It wasn't Emmald alone and Emmald certainly didn't conspire to have Sera to torment the baker, which is how Sera acts.

How is "What she did was bad" not her fault? Oh, I get it, it was Sera's fault for wanting cookies, the shame of that girl, couldn't she just sit back and enjoy the posh life that was given her, how dare she ask for cookies... /sarcasm.

[Bigdoser]

Not much to misunderstand, she told it like it is, and people got mad. It's pretty basic. It's pretty common too.

Edit: Forgot one point here: If my friend went out and got their significant other's name tattooed on their neck, and then had a big ass blow up, resulting in a split, you'd bet your ass I'd be laughing. Guess what, if the shoe were on the other foot, they would be too.

Context is everything. For Ages, literally, Dalish have been using the mark to show their superiority to other elves, only to find out, "Hey, guess what, you really didn't have a clue what it meant". Yeah, that's pretty ironic, and funny, in an ironic way as well. Turns out that the majority of what the Dalish believed was a lie, and they built their whole "civilization" around that lie. I've always been, and remain pro-Elf in the universe, but I can see how she thinks that's funny.

Sooo you think its okay to laugh at a friend when their whole world and everything they knew is in tatters? Well ok then, even solas the big guy himself did not laugh but lamented and try to comfort the inquisitor if they accepted it he has more reason to be angry at the dalish than anyone else.

 

It just shows what kind of person Sera is. 

[robertthebard]

So you think delibertly mocking your upet friend after they've just been dumped is totally fine and scoffing at how upset they are is 'like it is'? Wow, I feel bad for your friends if any of them ever go to you for comfort.

Don't. We are all mature enough to understand that we are responsible for our own actions, and our own feelings. We know that when we do something stupid, like get tattoos to mark us as slaves, and somebody laughs, that we had it coming. I realize that's an unpopular view on the BSN, I've gotten a couple of board warnings for it already, but frankly, that's the way I live my life. When I act like an idiot, and my friends treat me like one, I have nobody to blame but myself.

[robertthebard]

Sooo you think its okay to laugh at a friend when their whole world and everything they knew is in tatters? Well ok then, even solas the big guy himself did not laugh but lamented and try to comfort the inquisitor if they accepted it he has more reason to be angry at the dalish than anyone else.
 
It just shows what kind of person Sera is.

Oh, you mean the guy that had plenty of opportunities to come clean, but didn't, until the very end? Yeah, that's a prime example of someone everyone should emulate.

[Bigdoser]

Oh, you mean the guy that had plenty of opportunities to come clean, but didn't, until the very end? Yeah, that's a prime example of someone everyone should emulate.

Yeah but difference is he is not an ******* about it hell he even comfort's someone who he hated aka iron bull. After that banter I respected him greatly we disagree at times but I respected him the more I learned about him. 

 

With Sera its the complete opposite the more I learned about her and talked to her I started to respect her less and finding out about the dalish conversation pretty much caused me to turn my eye away from her for good. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Don't. We are all mature enough to understand that we are responsible for our own actions, and our own feelings. We know that when we do something stupid, like get tattoos to mark us as slaves, and somebody laughs, that we had it coming. I realize that's an unpopular view on the BSN, I've gotten a couple of board warnings for it already, but frankly, that's the way I live my life. When I act like an idiot, and my friends treat me like one, I have nobody to blame but myself.

Wow, your friendship circle sounds completely terrible if you jeer and further emotionally hurt each other while you're distressed.

 

'Act like an idiot'. When does the Inquisitor do this? She misunderstood the meaning of the tattoos and allowed Solas to remove them when he explains that, after a few hundred years of slavery, the elves forget their original meaning. Then he broke up with her and she went to her friend for comfort who promptly treats her like an idiot and mocks her.

 

Forgive me if I'm not 'mature enough' to accept this quite frankly atrocious attempt at justifying Sera's disgusting behaviour.

[robertthebard]

Wow, your friendship circle sounds completely terrible if you jeer and further emotionally hurt each other while you're distressed.
 
'Act like an idiot'. When does the Inquisitor do this? She misunderstood the meaning of the tattoos and allowed Solas to remove them when he explains that, after a few hundred years of slavery, the elves forget their original meaning. Then he broke up with her and she went to her friend for comfort who promptly treats her like an idiot and mocks her.
 
Forgive me if I'm not 'mature enough' to accept this quite frankly atrocious attempt at justifying Sera's disgusting behaviour.

I'm not trying to justify anything, other than to say that my friends would have told me like it is too. Which is, you'll note, how this exchange started, and then it's on to how my life must suck, and how all my friends must be douche bags because we don't do things like you do. She called it like she saw it, and it turns out that all her beliefs about "let go of the past and live in the now" were not only justified, but right.

I get it, really: You're mad because she didn't get out Alistair's box of Kleenex and tell you how everything was going to be alright. Just a question though, don't you think that would have been slightly, or maybe hugely out of character for her? If you wanted a shoulder to cry on, why didn't you go to Cass? Instead, you go to the most anti-elfy person in the whole game for comfort after finding out all the stuff you thought made you superior was a lie?

[Xilizhra]

I'm not trying to justify anything, other than to say that my friends would have told me like it is too. Which is, you'll note, how this exchange started, and then it's on to how my life must suck, and how all my friends must be douche bags because we don't do things like you do. She called it like she saw it, and it turns out that all her beliefs about "let go of the past and live in the now" were not only justified, but right.

I get it, really: You're mad because she didn't get out Alistair's box of Kleenex and tell you how everything was going to be alright. Just a question though, don't you think that would have been slightly, or maybe hugely out of character for her? If you wanted a shoulder to cry on, why didn't you go to Cass? Instead, you go to the most anti-elfy person in the whole game for comfort after finding out all the stuff you thought made you superior was a lie?

Sera is not only not right, but personally, nothing. She's achieved nothing, she knows nothing, and will die having been nothing.

[Zundar]

 If you wanted a shoulder to cry on, why didn't you go to Cass? Instead, you go to the most anti-elfy person in the whole game for comfort after finding out all the stuff you thought made you superior was a lie?

I haven't finished the game yet but from what I've seen I agree with this. Sera seems to be the last person I'd want to turn to in this situation. I also have friends that if I ever went to and told them I started seeing someone, they convinced me to make drastic changes to my appearance then dumped me, they'd probably laugh at me and tell me I made a stupid decision. I have other friends that would comfort me and try to tell me things will get better. Guess which ones I'd turn to? 

[KiwiQuiche]

I'm not trying to justify anything, other than to say that my friends would have told me like it is too. Which is, you'll note, how this exchange started, and then it's on to how my life must suck, and how all my friends must be douche bags because we don't do things like you do. She called it like she saw it, and it turns out that all her beliefs about "let go of the past and live in the now" were not only justified, but right.

I get it, really: You're mad because she didn't get out Alistair's box of Kleenex and tell you how everything was going to be alright. Just a question though, don't you think that would have been slightly, or maybe hugely out of character for her? If you wanted a shoulder to cry on, why didn't you go to Cass? Instead, you go to the most anti-elfy person in the whole game for comfort after finding out all the stuff you thought made you superior was a lie?

 

So you assume friends are suppose to ignore how upset you are and just mock you whenever you're upset? 'She called it like how she saw it', no she was intentially being an ass because she felt gleeful her hate towards the Dalish was somehow justified and expressed it through treating her friend like garbage and making her feel even worse.

 

No, I'm mad because she made zero effect to reign in her hatred of elvhen history/Dalish to help her FRIEND and instead just rubbed salt in the wounds by being a rude douchebag.

 

And Sera is already established as a hypocritial douchebag with no redeaming qualities but don't you act as if that excuses her horrible behaviour towards a 'friend' and try to justifiy it like you're repeatedly doing. This further cements how disgusting of a person she is-

 

*Friend comes to you upset*

"LOL MOCK THEM AND MAKE THEM FEEL EVEN WORSE *fart noise* No worries bro! imma just doin it cause the stuff i said about the dalish is right yeah?? who cares about you personally!!"

 

To put this in perspective; even Fenris and Anders reign in their douchebag attitudes if you speak to them if your mother dies regardless of your standing with them.

 

Sera is a crappier friend then those two and she remains a blind stubborn moron throughout the whole game.

[robertthebard]

Sera is not only not right, but personally, nothing. She's achieved nothing, she knows nothing, and will die having been nothing.

That's a very nice reply to the post, thank you.

[robertthebard]

So you assume friends are suppose to ignore how upset you are and just mock you whenever you're upset? 'She called it like how she saw it', no she was intentially being an ass because she felt gleeful her hate towards the Dalish was somehow justified and expressed it through treating her friend like garbage and making her feel even worse.
 
No, I'm mad because she made zero effect to reign in her hatred of elvhen history/Dalish to help her FRIEND and instead just rubbed salt in the wounds by being a rude douchebag.
 
And Sera is already established as a hypocritial douchebag with no redeaming qualities but don't you act as if that excuses her horrible behaviour towards a 'friend' and try to justifiy it like you're repeatedly doing. This further cements how disgusting of a person she is-
 
*Friend comes to you upset*
"LOL MOCK THEM AND MAKE THEM FEEL EVEN WORSE *fart noise* No worries bro! imma just doin it cause the stuff i said about the dalish is right yeah?? who cares about you personally!!"
 
To put this in perspective; even Fenris and Anders reign in their douchebag attitudes if you speak to them if your mother dies regardless of your standing with them.
 
Sera is a crappier friend then those two and she remains a blind stubborn moron throughout the whole game.

So you're not just a little mad, but very mad, that you chose to go to the most anti-elfy person in the whole game for comfort, and then didn't find any? Congratulations?

[Xilizhra]

That's a very nice reply to the post, thank you.

I try.

Of course, the Inquisitor's blatant error in judgment in talking to Sera does not in any way diminish how horrible Sera is.

[KaiserShep]

It's good to see that Sera could bring us together like this.

[robertthebard]

I try.
Of course, the Inquisitor's blatant error in judgment in talking to Sera does not in any way diminish how horrible Sera is.

Yes, because one is never responsible for their own actions. This is BSN, I won't forget that lesson.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, because one is never responsible for their own actions. This is BSN, I won't forget that lesson.

Wut.

 

So you're saying that the Inquisitor went in and used blood magic to force Sera to say horrible things? Because that's the only way I can think of that the Inquisitor would be responsible for what Sera chose to say.