1123 réponses à ce sujet

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Can, have, will.

Measured.  Weighed.  Wanting.

[Rifneno]

And again, that's subjective opinion.  I don't want plastic fake yes-men as friends, ESPECIALLY when I am wrong about something important in my life.  What Sera does is not in my view "kicking you lower".  So your judgement is just an opinion.  It's about as meaningful as claiming the Sun will rise in the West.

You can say that all you like, doesn't make it true. "Well in my opinion, putting rat poison in my wine isn't going too far with a prank. They're still a great friend. If you disagree that's just your opinion."

[Seraphim24]

You can say that all you like, doesn't make it true. "Well in my opinion, putting rat poison in my wine isn't going too far with a prank. They're still a great friend. If you disagree that's just your opinion."

 

Yeah that's so what she did there, putting rat poison in wine, great analogy. She came off pretty blunt, but the message I don't think was intended to harm, it was fundamentally intended to assist.

[Sporothrix]

Isn't the fact that it unsettled you so much a testament to the writing itself? A character doesn't have to be likeable to be a well-written character.

 

She might be a well-written character, but for me personally the problem lies in fact she was also supposed to be the first lesbian character and female-only romance option in DA franchise. Despite knowing that, they made her as polarizing as possible and they knew it, that's why she's the ONLY companion you can kick out whenever you want, big X reminding you of her insignificance whenever you talk to her. They knew so many people will find her unlikable. But they didn't have problem with making such character the only companion romance for gay female players.

 

Her lesbianism doesn't even seem to play any role in her character arc except for few banters about women, unlike Dorian whose storyline in this aspect is well developed and while his orientation doesn't define him, there is no pretense like it doesn't matter. Sera is also the only exclusive LI (with exception of Blackwall I believe, but there's still Solas and Cullen) who's completely skippable, you'll never see her face if you don't do the optional quest to recruit her, and as the only one she doesn't play any role in main storyline.

[Rifneno]

She might be a well-written character, but for me personally the problem lies in fact she was also supposed to be the first lesbian character and female-only romance option in DA franchise. Despite knowing that, they made her as polarizing as possible and they knew it, that's why she's the ONLY companion you can kick out whenever you want, big X reminding you of her insignificance whenever you talk to her. They knew so many people will find her unlikable. But they didn't have problem with making such character the only companion romance for gay female players.
 
Her lesbianism doesn't even seem to play any role in her character arc except for few banters about women, unlike Dorian whose storyline in this aspect is well developed and while his orientation doesn't define him, there is no pretension like it doesn't matter. Sera is also the only exclusive LI (with exception of Blackwall I believe, but there's still Solas and Cullen) who's completely skippable, you'll never see her face if you don't do the optional quest to recruit her, and as the only one she doesn't play any role in main storyline.

That's a great point. She should've had to be awesome because she's gay. So much for not wanting special treatment, eh?

[robertthebard]

Can, have, will.
 
 
Actually, no. This is all a hypothetical; it never happened to my Inquisitor because, again, I don't romance Solas. It's just a study on Sera's depravity.
 
And I'm sure as hell not making her leave the party before getting a chance to break her little mind with Mythal.

...and here we have another issue: It didn't happen to me, either, and I actually romanced her on my Archer. I was human, so none of this was an issue. So, if I were to just base it entirely on my game, I could, factually, state that nobody here knows what they're talking about, because it didn't happen. It's funny too, because even w/out spoilers about the reveals, and seeing the ending myself, Solas never really appealed to me as a character. Eventually, I will come around to rolling an Inquisitor that does, it's inevitable, I tend to do that, it's my altaholism, I can't help myself. But even then, when I get around to it, and even after all this it will be on a Dalish, I wouldn't think to run to Sera for comfort. That's sort of like pulling a splinter by cutting off the finger, isn't it?

[KiwiQuiche]

You see, this is what it boils down to. Sera hates being an elf. She hates things that are too elfy. She has made this abundantly clear since you met her. Again, why are you surprised? Are you going to run to the friend that's been telling you since you started a bad relationship looking for sympathy when that bad relationship blows up? Do you actually have friends that are that honest with you? I know I do, and if I ran to them, they'd laugh and tell me how stupid I was. So tell me, if you had such a low opinion of her, why was she still in Skyhold? You can kick her out of your party any time you like, including never even recruiting her, if you didn't want to. You see, you're claiming a "moment of weakness", but I'm pointing out an entire game of it. Since you could have removed her at your whim, any time you wanted to, and didn't, you have nobody to blame for Sera's reaction to these events but yourself. If you had removed her from the party as soon as you discovered she was an arsehole, and you didn't like her, you wouldn't have had to put up with her being an arsehole when you got your heart/life broken. Instead, you kept her around, and are now here, blaming her for your inability to act.

I did kick her ass out after she proved she be such a disgusting person.

 

Oddly enough, I figured someone whom I had a high approval with and was friends with would actually, ya know, try to comfort my PC.

 

Wait, did you seriously place ALL the blame was on the Inquisitor for trying to find comfort in a friend and then have that friend throw everything in your face? Oh wait, you've already said that kind of behaviour is perfectly acceptable from friends, because treating your friends like crap when they're already upset means its clearly THEIR fault for being stupid enough to think that you, as a friend, would actually try and comfort them.

 

Good lord, how many utterly garbage 'friends' are you surrounded by if you lay the blame entirely on the person trying to get comfort and not the person intentionally being cruel out of spite?

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Her lesbianism doesn't even seem to play any role in her character arc except for few banters about women

Wait, what?  Why would her being gay have to define her as a character?   Isn't it all possible that, just like in RL, you can be any kind of person and just happen to be gay?  OMG, it's like you feel a lesbian needs to be a Lilith Fair icon in order to get good press for "the cause" or something.

 

I like to think of Sera as a talented adventurer who just happens to be a girl who prefers the company of other girls, and she's yanno... into breeches!

[KiwiQuiche]

And again, that's subjective opinion.  I don't want plastic fake yes-men as friends, ESPECIALLY when I am wrong about something important in my life.  What Sera does is not in my view "kicking you lower".  So your judgement is just an opinion.  It's about as meaningful as claiming the Sun will rise in the West. 

 

So if one of your friends came to you after just having a break up and then told you something culturally important to them was all a lie your only response would be "LMAO U STUPID DOUCHEBAG AHAHA!!" ?

 

Wow, what a wonderful 'friend' you must be.

[AresKeith]

Her lesbianism doesn't even seem to play any role in her character arc except for few banters about women, unlike Dorian whose storyline in this aspect is well developed and while his orientation doesn't define him, there is no pretense like it doesn't matter. Sera is also the only exclusive LI (with exception of Blackwall I believe, but there's still Solas and Cullen) who's completely skippable, you'll never see her face if you don't do the optional quest to recruit her, and as the only one she doesn't play any role in main storyline.

 

And why should her sexuality play a role in her character arc? It's not that big of a deal in the Southern part of Thedas unlike Tevinter in Dorian's case

[Ap0crypha]

@robertthebard: But, see, the Inquisitor and Sera don't have to hate each other. It's difficult but not impossible for a Dalish Inquisitor to befriend her, bonding over pranks and whatnot, in which case she'd expect a little sympathy for what happened. It all depends on how you roleplay.

 

We weren't discussing this as if we experienced it. We were discussing this based on what we know about her character. Just because I usually kill Loghain in Origins, doesn't mean there's not an aspect of Alistair that would ditch me for letting him live. Just because a gay Qunari warrior Inquisitor never sees Sera mock him at his lowest, doesn't mean there's not a part of her that wouldn't mock him at his lowest if it benefitted her.

[Sporothrix]

That's a great point. She should've had to be awesome because she's gay. So much for not wanting special treatment, eh?

 

Apparently what you mean by "special treatment" I see as not being treated worse than all the others. Or maybe you disagree with my points? If so, could you say which ones exactly instead of making such vague accusation?

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

So if one of your friends came to you after just having a break up and then told you something culturally important to them was all a lie your only response would be "LMAO U ****** AHAHA!!" ?

 

Wow, what a wonderful 'friend' you must be.

*grins*  A far, far better friend than you'll ever have or know.

[Seraphim24]

So if one of your friends came to you after just having a break up and then told you something culturally important to them was all a lie your only response would be "LMAO U ****** AHAHA!!" ?

 

Wow, what a wonderful 'friend' you must be.

 

You do realize your entire post is full of condescension and hatred much more than that comment itself?

[Xilizhra]

That's a great point. She should've had to be awesome because she's gay. So much for not wanting special treatment, eh?

Be fair. No other orientation has, to my knowledge, been stuck with a companion like Sera.

[AresKeith]

Be fair. No other orientation has, to my knowledge, been stuck with a companion like Sera.

 

Maybe because their orientations doesn't define them, the same with Sera 

[Rifneno]

Apparently what you mean by "special treatment" I see as not being treated worse than all the others. Or maybe you disagree with my points? If so, could you say which ones exactly instead of making such vague accusation?

You clearly wanted Sera to be super likable because apparently it's okay for a straight character to be a douche, but not a gay one.

[robertthebard]

I did kick her ass out after she proved she be such a disgusting person.
 
Oddly enough, I figured someone whom I had a high approval with and was friends with would actually, ya know, try to comfort my PC.
 
Wait, did you seriously place ALL the blame was on the Inquisitor for trying to find comfort in a friend and then have that friend throw everything in your face? Oh wait, you've already said that kind of behaviour is perfectly acceptable from friends, because treating your friends like crap when they're already upset means its clearly THEIR fault for being stupid enough to think that you, as a friend, would actually try and comfort them.
 
Good lord, how many utterly garbage 'friends' are you surrounded by if you lay the blame entirely on the person trying to get comfort and not the person intentionally being cruel out of spite?

...and here we are again, visiting my life, instead of the video game. Should I start thinking about a restraining order, or maybe keeping one of my swords a bit closer when I sleep? This stalker thing you've got going on is getting kind of creepy.

[PsychoticFox]

So if one of your friends came to you after just having a break up and then told you something culturally important to them was all a lie your only response would be "LMAO U STUPID DOUCHEBAG AHAHA!!" ?

 

Wow, what a wonderful 'friend' you must be.

Well, if they already knew I thought boyfriend/culture aspect was silly (as Sera expresses often in the game)... yeah.

 

Although if I'm being honest, I'm more of a "sigh and roll my eyes" sort of person than a "laugh out loud and call someone an idiot". But you can bet that I'm thinking something along the lines of "what a fecking idiot. told 'em so"

[robertthebard]

Be fair. No other orientation has, to my knowledge, been stuck with a companion like Sera.

Alistair. 'nuff said.

[KiwiQuiche]

*grins*  A far, far better friend than you'll ever have or know.

 

 

 

You do realize your entire post is full of condescension and hatred much more than that comment itself?

 

Hardly; I was reacting to the fact Ming seems to think kicking your friend while their down makes them a 'far far better friend' which is just down right depressing and gross. And how is thinking mocking/jeering at your hurt friend is gross is somehow 'condescending and hateful' hmmm? Maybe because I notice my personal hatred of a group means less then comforting my friend, unlike what Sera did? Yes, truely I am awful.

 

...and here we are again, visiting my life, instead of the video game. Should I start thinking about a restraining order, or maybe keeping one of my swords a bit closer when I sleep? This stalker thing you've got going on is getting kind of creepy.

Point missed completely, yet again. Well done.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Alistair. 'nuff said.

Jacob is worse. At least with Alistair he only dumps you if he becomes king and you aren't a human noble, and even then you can become his mistress. Meanwhile Jacob always leaves you for another woman after you two are separated for only a few months. 

[Sporothrix]

And why should her sexuality play a role in her character arc? It's not that big of a deal in the Southern part of Thedas unlike Tevinter in Dorian's case

Because codex notes clearly conrtadict with that view? Apparently there is no persecution, but even the most tolerant Orlais doesn't see it as "normal", but as "quirk of character". So it's not believeable to me personally to see it presented that way. It looks like a lot is missing.

 

And one of the arguments why "player-sexual" approach was dropped was to make characters' sexuality matter. Now, when it matters only for gay men we come dangerously close to typical media treatment of people from sexual minorities.

[Seraphim24]

Hardly; I was reacting to the fact Ming seems to think kicking your friend while their down makes them a 'far far better friend' which is just down right depressing and gross. And how is thinking mocking/jeering at your hurt friend is gross is somehow 'condescending and hateful' hmmm? Maybe because I notice my personal hatred of a group means less then comforting my friend, unlike what Sera did? Yes, truely I am awful.

 

This is why I said Sera generated "real gray area." According to Ming, she's doing what a friend does in and that's tell them straight. According to some others, she's "kicking them while their down" and "putting posion in wine."

 

In truth she does neither, she simply laughs at the hypocrisy generated by the fictitious symbols, (a sentiment that I personally find sensible), while also doing so (in my opinion) in fairly uncouth blunt way (that I don't think is necessarily very appealing.) These differing interpretations though indicate that it has real meaning one way or another.