1123 réponses à ce sujet

[Caelistas]

I found her to be batshit insane.

 

I try to stay away from the crazy ones, like in rl 

[Ap0crypha]

@Nathair: No, it is Sera's notion. She says that, as part of the Friends of Red Jenny, she's looking out for the little people--but her actions contradict her words. Sure, she kills one noble in her personal quest, great--several of her little people friends died doing it. For someone who doesn't like the "common folk" being sacrificed for the "greater good", she seems very willing to throw their lives away for her "greater good".

[Nathair Nimheil]

I didn't say that she was an evil psycopath, either, just that I don't like her at all. Please let's not lump every person who doesn't like Sera in the same basket.

Wasn't "That is the kind of hyperbolic hysteria that I was addressing" clear enough?
 

Everyone else in the Inquisition is, if not obedient, than at least respectful of the PC and the institution, unless you personally antagonize them. Even if you disagree with strong personalities like Iron Bull or Vivienne or Cassandra, they will stay polite most of the time. Sera remains unruly even if you befriend her, instantly becomes defensive if you dare start to act like the leader you actually are, and pretty much refuses to even consider opposing viewpoints, prefering fart jokes and high school level counter-arguments to them. Again, part of the character, but it's really easy to not like her I must say.

That is exactly what makes her my favorite companion (with the exception of the "high school level" dig.) Respectful of the institution? *fart noise* is the correct response to that nonsense assemblage of words.

[Steelcan]

Maybe she should be sent to the Ben Hassrath

[KiwiQuiche]

@Nathair Yes, because being completely and continuously disrespectful to the person leading a nation-wide Inquisition is the mark of a mature and reasonable person isn't it?

[Seraphim24]

Is there really no one tuned into the hypocrisy of condemning her character because she "fails to consider opposing viewpoints?" 

 

That is in self a failure to consider her opposing viewpoint, which is pretty obviously at least not shared by the people condemning her. 

 

Also haven't seen any mention of why the Inquisitor is free of blame here, it takes two to create this kind of problem and somehow this extreme naivete of just blindly adopting the symbols given to him/her is not an issue? It's only that Sera calls it out? If anything, it seems to suggest the people who dislike Sera were at times guilty of the same naivete, perhaps. 

 

Not to mention to mention that this criticism of him/her violent tendencies is coming from the leader behind a genocide of faceless/personality less demons and such, as well as religious express warfare and conversion, somehow not being at all 'violent' him/herself. Not sure how much I want to be around any of these people. 

[Steelcan]

HOW DARE THE INQUISITOR EXPECT BASIC HUMAN DECENCY FROM SERA! WHAT DO THEY THINK SHE IS? RATIONAL, LIKEABLE,INTELLIGENT, HALFWAY DECENT IN ANY WAY?


WHY AM I SHOUTING

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Er... no. That is not what happened. She is quite explicit that she is laughing at the Dalish, she explicitly makes the distinction "you know now but they put on all this 'real elf' stuff, and I knew it, it's all just fancy dress." And, you know, it is if not funny at least pretty damned amusing poetic justice. All those faces... 

That only isn't an insult to the Inquisitor if the Inquisitor is now firmly no longer Dalish. Even then it is "Haha, everything you knew was false!" 

 

I am not a fan of the Dalish culture, but even I wouldn't do what Sera did to a Dalish Elf. 

 

 

Even if I agreed with your assessment of the situation (and I don't, really) that is still pretty weak tea as an excuse for casting someone into the outer darkness as an unreedemable evil person.

I never said it made her an irredeemably evil person. I said it made her a bad person. There is a huge difference between bad and irredeemably evil. 

[KiwiQuiche]

HOW DARE THE INQUISITOR EXPECT BASIC HUMAN DECENCY FROM SERA! WHAT DO THEY THINK SHE IS? RATIONAL, LIKEABLE,INTELLIGENT, HALFWAY DECENT IN ANY WAY?


WHY AM I SHOUTING

 

 

But yeah, there's a difference between having different views and sticking with them via non-coddling/lying, and calling anyone who calls you out on your hypocrisy and incredibly rude behaviour stupid and constantly being disrespectful.

[Seraphim24]

 

 

But yeah, there's a difference between having different views and sticking with them via non-coddling/lying, and calling anyone who calls you out on your hypocrisy and incredibly rude behaviour stupid and constantly being disrespectful.

 

In the form, but not the substance, it would seem to me. 

 

On the other hand, I have seen people here who have declared that "the way a thing is expressed matters more than the thing itself," which I find kind of insane. At a minimum, they would be equal, if not the other way around. However, that would explain their dislike. 

 

Which is pretty much exactly what I said in the first place, that she seems to be very on-point, the sensibilities I can get behind. It's slightly annoying (for instance) how she uses fart noises to make them though. It comes off as kind of an over-excited GOT YA which probably isn't as cool as some other way of doing it. 

 

It is not immoral to be honest, of all things. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Tbh Sera and Bull are the only real stand out characters.

[Vit246]

Is there really no one tuned into the hypocrisy of condemning her character because she "fails to consider opposing viewpoints?" 

 

That is in self a failure to consider her opposing viewpoint, which is pretty obviously at least not shared by the people condemning her. 

 

Also haven't seen any mention of why the Inquisitor is free of blame here, it takes two to create this kind of problem and somehow this extreme naivete of just blindly adopting the symbols given to him/her is not an issue? It's only that Sera calls it out? If anything, it seems to suggest the people who dislike Sera were at times guilty of the same naivete, perhaps. 

 

Not to mention to mention that this criticism of him/her violent tendencies is coming from the leader behind a genocide of faceless/personality less demons and such, as well as religious express warfare and conversion, somehow not being at all 'violent' him/herself. Not sure how much I want to be around any of these people. 

 

I still don't consider Sera's viewpoint.

The Elven gods are real. And the symbol of the Dalish tattoos are whatever the Dalish can make them to be in modern times, and they will not be diminished. A thousand years ago they were slave markings; a thousand years later they are not. And the modern Dalish are not their ancient ancestors.

Example: the crucifix was once a Roman torture device and then it became a religious symbol.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Wasn't "That is the kind of hyperbolic hysteria that I was addressing" clear enough?
 

That is exactly what makes her my favorite companion (with the exception of the "high school level" dig.) Respectful of the institution? *fart noise* is the correct response to that nonsense assemblage of words.

 

Yes, when a group of people put their lives and everything they believe on the line in order to save the world from a hole in the sky throwing demons at everyone, they totally deserve farting noises.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 See, this is another example of why I was and still am a bigger fan of DA2's friend/rival system to its successor's and predecessor's approval-based system. It was better when we could voice agreement or disagreement with a character's beliefs or practices and then build off of these establishments again in the future. It was not perfect, but it was a good start, I felt, and preferable to the 1-D nature of cumulative approval.

 

Sera is fun, and I figured out how to get/stay on her good side, but I would have liked the ability to disagree with her and other characters on some points without negating the goodwill that I worked to earn with them.

 

What I would like to see, basically, is sort of a hybrid system. That might sound complex and impractical, but what I'm thinking is actually fairly straightforward and, I think, doable.

[Adam Ahmed]

It's not like she doesn't have good points. But she has NO Character arc about her prejudices like other characters had in previous games.

[KiwiQuiche]

I think a lot of people who are defending Sera's actions seem to think it's the fact she disagrees with the Inquisitor's views/beliefs is what the main beef is about.

 

It's not, I'm perfectly fine with characters whom I disagree with; in DAO I disagreed with Sten, Leliana and Wynne quite often. In DA2 it was Fenris and Anders.

 

However unlike Sera they remained fairly civil (as much as their personalities would allow) and would explain the reasons they disagree or have different opinions. Same with Fenris and Anders. Heck, even Fenris will accept your opinion if you explain it to him and he even apologizes if he rages at you (like after his personal quest when he snaps at you if you're a mage) because he accepts the fact you still have a valid opinion even if he disagrees with it.

 

Even Sten gives you approval if you argue and stand up to him- he likes the fact you'll stand by your opinion and if you explain your attitude he even accepts your different view points even if he disagrees outright with them.

 

Sera on the other hand just says "You're stupid because you think like that" and behaves if that explains everything and proves she's right.

 

That's all she does. You either agree with her or are stupid.

 

Even Morrigan can handle a disagreement without going "durr u stupid *fart noise*" like some petulant child as Sera does and she grew up in a damn swamp with only her weird-ass mother as company.

 

That's why a lot of people dislike Sera; not because she has a different opinion but because she utterly refuses to accept or acknowledge other opinions that don't fit with hers and if you do have a different opinion or belief then you're simply stupid.

[Ap0crypha]

Perfectly said, Kiwi. Characters who disagree are with me are fine; characters who disagree in a childish way and refuse to mature at all are not.

[Ennai and 54 others]

Tbh Sera and Bull are the only real stand out characters.

Iron Bull is actually very intelligent at least.He can play chess in his head(with solas) and is extremely observant,very unusual and unexpected.

 

Iron Bull,Cole and Solas,team snowflake.

 

Sera sounds like a commoner,except she is a sociopath.hating noble people and people who think they are better than you is not unique,Slim Couldry was the same,but he was cunning(I'm starting to think he was also a "friend").

 

I would bet her lack of critical thinking has caused her to hurt many innocents.

[Aisynia]

Not to pick on you personally, this is exactly what I see going on here. You* immediately hated her. Immediately. Therefore she must a bad person; The Other. Instant evaluation, total Black or White categorization followed by ongoing confirmation bias. If your snap judgement is later questioned or others disagree: Double down. Immediately. Hunt for anything that can be used to support your position. Redouble. Life or death, good vs evil, Mac vs PC, Together we will rule the universe as father and son: NEVER!

 

*The impersonal you

 

She had a lot of chances to change my mind. She did not. She's a bad person who walks all over others and calls them names and/or kills them for disagreeing with her. She's exactly like the nobles she professes to hate. She's one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever seen in fiction. Made worse by her incredible ignorance.

[Anelyn77]

Sera + Cas + Vivienne (replaced with Dorian at times) is the most fun / amusing party ever. If you don't play at least couple hours with this party to hear the lines, you're missing out on tons of fun / laughs.

 

Personally I decided at skyhold to romance Sera instead of Jos, and so far it all went on a rolercoaster of fun / surprises / pranks etc. She's my skinny lover

[Aesir26]

Kiwi perfectly sums up my viewpoint on the matter. I don't mind that Sera disagrees with my character as I've come across and loved characters in past Bioware games that have done just that. It was the manner in which Sera disagreed that I took issue with, that whole "I'm right and you're stupid" shtick.

 

However, as I mentioned before that could very well change with a different character since I doubt playing a proud, semi-serious Dalish character helped matters.

[Shadow_Claw]

Sera's wild and crazy. Not sure why I let her into the Inquisition outside of her ability to kill people with arrows. I tolerate her presence, but don't seek her out. I eyeroll everytme I talk to her. At least we are given options to react to her how we wish. I'm glad they gave us a character like her though, always nice to have something nontraditional to mix things up, otherwise fantasy tropes can get quite dull.

[Realyn]

I think a lot of people who are defending Sera's actions seem to think it's the fact she disagrees with the Inquisitor's views/beliefs is what the main beef is about.

 

It's not, I'm perfectly fine with characters whom I disagree with; in DAO I disagreed with Sten, Leliana and Wynne quite often. In DA2 it was Fenris and Anders.

 

However unlike Sera they remained fairly civil (as much as their personalities would allow) and would explain the reasons they disagree or have different opinions. Same with Fenris and Anders. Heck, even Fenris will accept your opinion if you explain it to him and he even apologizes if he rages at you (like after his personal quest when he snaps at you if you're a mage) because he accepts the fact you still have a valid opinion even if he disagrees with it.

 

Even Sten gives you approval if you argue and stand up to him- he likes the fact you'll stand by your opinion and if you explain your attitude he even accepts your different view points even if he disagrees outright with them.

 

Sera on the other hand just says "You're stupid because you think like that" and behaves if that explains everything and proves she's right.

 

That's all she does. You either agree with her or are stupid.

 

Even Morrigan can handle a disagreement without going "durr u stupid *fart noise*" like some petulant child as Sera does and she grew up in a damn swamp with only her weird-ass mother as company.

 

That's why a lot of people dislike Sera; not because she has a different opinion but because she utterly refuses to accept or acknowledge other opinions that don't fit with hers and if you do have a different opinion or belief then you're simply stupid.

 

I think it's simply her childish nature as a character. I love how she isn't exactly what you described about previous characters; yet another character that conforms to the bog standard 'rules' about RPG characters and how they are supposed to reflect on their own shortcomings. I love how she's so pig-headed. I love how other characters try (and fail) to deal with her. I love how she refuses to accept simple truths even if they slap her in the face. And believe me, I think a few NPCs are more then likely to actually slap her if given a moment alone with her.

 

It's just refreshing to see a character outside of the expected mold for party members in an RPG.

 

That being said, I can't put her in my party on some of my playthroughs simply because she's such a dolt and just doesn't mesh with my Inquisitor of that particular playthrough. But in other playthroughs, she's simply a perfect companion to have around.

 

However, as I mentioned before that could very well change with a different character since I doubt playing a proud, semi-serious Dalish character helped matters.

It certainly matters to me. For example; on my snarky Dwarf warrior, she's a hoot. On my serious 'proud to be mage'-mage, she's less likable.

 

I tend to put myself in my character's shoes, though.

[Nyaore]

Iron Bull is actually very intelligent at least.He can play chess in his head(with solas) and is extremely observant,very unusual and unexpected.

 

Iron Bull,Cole and Solas,team snowflake.

 

Sera sounds like a commoner,except she is a sociopath.hating noble people and people who think they are better than you is not unique,Slim Couldry was the same,but he was cunning(I'm starting to think he was also a "friend").

 

I would bet her lack of critical thinking has caused her to hurt many innocents.

Someone even put their match into a chess simulator and it's glorious.

 

I think Sera can be an interesting character depending upon your personality and the kind of character you run. For me, however, as someone who was eager to have her in my party and even romance her the first lines out her mouth left me crushed. Her quests then left me with a feeling of utter sadness as the character I was so looking forward to was essentially a fart joke making version of Rip Van Wrinkle from Hellsing Ultimate Abridged, and everything I hate in a person condensed into one perky little elf. I'm glad there are people who like her! Truly! However, please don't assume that the people who dislike her don't have valid reasons for doing so and vice versa.

[Nathair Nimheil]

@Nathair Yes, because being completely and continuously disrespectful to the person leading a nation-wide Inquisition is the mark of a mature and reasonable person isn't it?

It depends on the person, I'd say. It also depends on who's doing the "disrespecting" and what you call "disrespecting". Personally, I would say that characterizing Sera as being "completely and continuously disrespectful" to the PC is, as so much else in this thread, a massive exaggeration. Sera's right there, fighting the same fight, taking the same risks and following the PC's orders. I don't need her to be meek and submissive while she does that but if you do then, sure, take someone else along. 

 

The idea that someone must be what you call "mature" and "respectful" in order to be a good person but that dedicating (and risking) your life to help save the world from demons doesn't signify? That's a seriously confused perspective.