1123 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

I find it immensely amusing that the references from people wanting "growth" from Sera all tend to want a "Softening" approach as opposed to the classic "Hardening" of Aleister and Leliana.  They seem to want her to become more respectful, nicer, more empathic, reduce the frequency of her fart jokes, and to treat the Quizzie and company with more respect.

 

Characters, especially in a BW game, do get some growth. I don't see why Sera shouldn't get some as well.... i personally don't want her to lose her humor or honesty or cheery attitude (i freaking love her for these).

 

I want her to learn that the world isn't black and white. There are grey areas everywhere.

 

And Sera do respect the inquisitor...... in her own weird way, actually. She may disagree with you a lot (or even call you out), she doesn't leave from the inquisition. She stays and fights with you, unless you kick her out.

[Sir DeLoria]

I'm mostly with her on the Dalish, but her humor isn't really funny and when it comes to depth she reminds me of a Sasha Baron Cohen character.

[Mihura]

I don't see the difference between a man or a woman writing her? He did a great job. I'm a lesbian, and I think Sera's approach is common. If you romance her, she wants sex rather fast. But this is common among the gay community.. It may be a stereotype but in my own personal experience, it's 100% true. And everyone can be ignorant. So what she's not really open to change? That's a common characteristic in ignorant people. But she still accepted my elf as her lover despite her lack of interest in other elves, so she can grow beyond that. Anyway, it's silly to hate so much on someone because their established personality clashes with your own ideal of how they should behave. They are who they are.

 

I guess my life experience is all wrong, where are these army of lesbians that want sex really quick, maybe this is just me but isn't that like a personal preference, than let us say your sexual orientation?

She only accepts your elf if you lie to her, so no, she does not go for the middle ground or even speak out of ignorance. You literally have to lie to her to continue the romance and she ask for it. She has a really strong coping mechanism that relates to denial, so in a way it makes sense Sera does not grow as a person because everything that clash with her world views, she dismisses it. 

So in the end I guess it is a really well written problematic character,  sure but a really poor first lesbian romance, at least in my opinion.

 

I find it immensely amusing that the references from people wanting "growth" from Sera all tend to want a "Softening" approach as opposed to the classic "Hardening" of Aleister and Leliana.  They seem to want her to become more respectful, nicer, more empathic, reduce the frequency of her fart jokes, and to treat the Quizzie and company with more respect. 

 

To hell with that I say!  Let's HARDEN Sera up even more!

 

Make it so that she doesn't care anymore about innocents getting killed!  Make it so that she takes the initiative when dialogue wheel choices offer mercy or death, she steps forward and just kabobs the prisoner with arrows!  Have her get cannier and gain more low cunning so that she rivals Leliana as a ruthless spymaster!  Give her War Table missions where she starts hunting down and culling Dalish hunting parties that ambush farmers and shepherds in the shemlen areas they travel through!  Give her knife-ear trophies! 

 

Honestly, the ridiculousness of likening growth and evolution of character to ONLY the meek and compliant changes of a character is just plain silly.  Sometimes evolution can involve a Fall as well.  If I was a Dev and reading all the whining about Sera, I'd be tempted to say "You want character evolution?  You'll get character evolution!" and write her on an Anakin Skywalker downward spiral of epic proportions!

 

Would totally love to see that but than again isn't that Branka.

I just find it funny that somehow the hetero romances are always knight, religious tolerant people and so on, even Sebastian ffs. Ah well I really hope that next time they do other things, other than moral ambiguous rogues and mages or whatever.

[SilentNukee]

She only accepts your elf if you lie to her, so no, she does not go for the middle ground or even speak out of ignorance. You literally have to lie to her to continue the romance and she ask for it. She has a really strong coping mechanism that relates to denial, so in a way it makes sense Sera does not grow as a person because everything that clash with her world views, she dismisses it.

So in the end I guess it is a really well written problematic character, sure but a really poor first lesbian romance, at least in my opinion.

When do you lie to her as an elf? I've never had to lie to her?

[VanillaSun]

Characters, especially in a BW game, do get some growth. I don't see why Sera shouldn't get some as well.... i personally don't want her to lose her humor or honesty or cheery attitude (i freaking love her for these).

 

I want her to learn that the world isn't black and white. There are grey areas everywhere.

 

And Sera do respect the inquisitor...... in her own weird way, actually. She may disagree with you a lot (or even call you out), she doesn't leave from the inquisition. She stays and fights with you, unless you kick her out.

 

But she knows that, she has no problem romancing a Dalish elf, a human noble, or a mage all together, also, Dorian is as close to a noble mage as we ever get and they like each other, she explicitely tells him this, and they end up having a very spicy relationship. Just like with Iron Bull, she doesn't like th Qun but she likes him so she isn't blind and she definitely "grows" whichever that even means here.

 

I think some people should just deal with it, in other games you could manipulate or persuade other NPCs to think like you, you can't with Sera, just get over it or kick her out of the party, if you are bored of spamming the diplomatic option and reading "Sera disapproves" it might be your problem, not hers, it's her opinion and won't change it, just show her the door and be done with it, you can disagree with her no one is forcing you to click otherwise just to please her, if she gets butthurt just tell her to f*** off and relax, you know it won't get worse than that.

 

I maintain that most problems with her come from snotty Dalish and Solasmancers, I am very proud that she detected that Solas wasn't being straight with the Inquisition from the start and in the end she was right, she is a City elf, just like my Warden Commander, I remember perfectly how this characters lived their lives in the Alienages and I trust her sixth sense.

 

Her attitude with nobles and Dalish is perfectly reasonable after what i've seen in game, when I was at the ball with Celene, Briala and Gaspard I was so glad she was near me while this people were "playing" and lieing to each others faces, that behaviour is embarrasing from my point of view and i'm sure if it had been up to her she would have solved it with arrows for the three of them.

 

And you can gain aproval by helping commoners in the Hinterlands with her, so stop saying she is a hypocryte because she is probably the only character which you know exactly what to expect when you make decisions.

[fizzypop]

Really? I must meet the people you know then. I've gotten nothing but people who want to move super fast and though I may have liked that when I was younger, I definitely don't now. So yes, I guess it all depends on the individual's personality.

She comments on why she doesn't usually like elves, and it's because "we'd end up doing elf things together" and she doesn't want to be too "elfy". But she mentions that all that stuff means nothing because my Inquisitor is greater than that. She likes her for her. Luckily my elf isn't too "elfy", but some elves are. I guess if you value tradition, etc.. It might be harder for you to form something with her then.

Probably depends on the area too. It is hard for me because I'm a commitment phobe and cannot be monogamous lol.

That might be the difference my dale is a mage so kind of has to be traditional given her role in her clan. She has a huge responsibility to forsee that our traditions and knowledge continue on...very difficult to be with Sera like that.

[WildOrchid]

But she knows that, she has no problem romancing a Dalish elf,

 

She has heavy issues with dalish (which i don't blame her) and she breaks up with the elf inquisitor if she tells her that she believes in her own gods though. I understand that Sera probably doesn't want a "religious" girlfriend but people can have beliefs and mantain a healthy relationship without getting preachy about religions and gods. I guess Sera is like that, oh well.

[fizzypop]

I maintain that most problems with her come from snotty Dalish and Solasmancers,

 
I didn't romance Solas. There is nothing wrong with examining a character from the point of another character. Her hatred of dalish is wrong. Just like the hate of humans is wrong. People aren't their race...which ironically I would think Sera would understand. She's an elf and yet doesn't claim any of her heritage. I have zero problems with that. I just don't think she should be down on someone who doesn't believe in the same things she does. My dalish doesn't believe in the maker or chantry, but for the most part has no issue with those who do (other than having to remind everyone that she believes in Elven Gods). I mean she romanced Cullen...which is going to be a small problem with her clan. I just wish Sera would stop with the hate. I get tired of having racist characters.

[Lulupab]

Imagine an Isabela without her heart of gold personality. Its indeed pure Bi*ch. 

[WildOrchid]

 
I didn't romance Solas. There is nothing wrong with examining a character from the point of another character. Her hatred of dalish is wrong. Just like the hate of humans is wrong. People aren't their race...which ironically I would think Sera would understand. She's an elf and yet doesn't claim any of her heritage. I have zero problems with that. I just don't think she should be down on someone who doesn't believe in the same things she does. My dalish doesn't believe in the maker or chantry, but for the most part has no issue with those who do (other than having to remind everyone that she believes in Elven Gods). I mean she romanced Cullen...which is going to be a small problem with her clan. I just wish Sera would stop with the hate. I get tired of having racist characters.

 

She isn't racist, her issues are with the dalish culture, not the elf race. It's just so happens most elves are dalish/believe their own gods.

[AresKeith]

Imagine an Isabela without her heart of gold personality. Its indeed pure Bi*ch. 

 

Except she's nothing like Isabela

[fizzypop]

She isn't racist, her issues are with the dalish culture, not the elf race. It's just so happens most elves are dalish/believe their own gods.

Ethnic hate is often attributed to racism so regardless it still stands. Either way she is still hating someone for being different, themselves. There is no way to spin that as okay. Plus the reason I think she's racist is because her comments smack of self-hate. It isn't very surprising either.

[Ap0crypha]

Sera becoming more Anakin-like would be pretty nice to see, simply because it would be character growth--which she badly needs. So long as the Inquisitor gets a chance to call her out on her "She Who Fights Monsters" ways and isn't railroaded into accepting them, I'd be happy to see that.

[fizzypop]

I actually don't mind Sera has a character. She's funny and I loved playing pranks with her, but as a romance it just doesn't work for me. There is no way I could put my character into a relationship with someone who hated her very culture. So if Sera ever gets romanced by me probably gonna be a dwarf or human.

[WildOrchid]

So if Sera ever gets romanced by me probably gonna be a dwarf or human.

 

Better qunari.

Because reasons.

 

 

 

Woof!

[fizzypop]

Better qunari.

Because reasons.

 

 

 

Woof!

I have considered that too. I think it'd work out well actually since my qunari will be very anti-qun.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Her hatred of dalish is wrong. Just like the hate of humans is wrong. People aren't their race...which ironically I would think Sera would understand. She's an elf and yet doesn't claim any of her heritage.

Except in this case, Sera isn't hating on a race, she's hating on a CULTURE.  That's very different.  I can say for example, "I don't hate Chinese people, but I do hate Mainland Communist Party Chinese".  (I don't actually, but it's good analogy given that I am Chinese, and Sera is Elvish)

 

Sera hates what the Dalish Elves stand for, represent, say, and do.  I've got no problem with that as I believe the Dalish culture deserves that disdain.

[Linkenski]

"Anyone else think Sera is kinda..." ...hot? I can't be the only one. I know she's not ideal looking and many thinks she's a butter face, but I like how she looks. I think she looks cute.

[fizzypop]

Except in this case, Sera isn't hating on a race, she's hating on a CULTURE.  That's very different.  I can say for example, "I don't hate Chinese people, but I do hate Mainland Communist Party Chinese".  (I don't actually, but it's good analogy given that I am Chinese, and Sera is Elvish)

 

Sera hates what the Dalish Elves stand for, represent, say, and do.  I've got no problem with that as I believe the Dalish culture deserves that disdain.

This was already explained up thread. Ethnic hate is often combined and attributed with racism. No matter what you want to call it, it isn't okay. You don't hate someone for their culture especially given that many of the DAI characters are going AGAINST their culture, but still have some fondness of it. Dorian, Iron Bull, and even Cullen to a degree. Plus the reason I think she's racist is because her comments smack of self-hate.

Since you believe that they deserve that disdain you and I will not agree on this. I think there is a huge difference in saying "I don't believe in your elven gods/traditions, but I'm okay with you existing and disagreeing." and "I will break up with you and attribute that hate to you even though you aren't like that at all"

Also your analogy doesn't really work since that's not really the culture, but the politics. The culture would be something more like the way you dress, your traditions, religion, etc etc. Politics aren't really the same thing.

[Heimdall]

Except in this case, Sera isn't hating on a race, she's hating on a CULTURE.  That's very different.  I can say for example, "I don't hate Chinese people, but I do hate Mainland Communist Party Chinese".  (I don't actually, but it's good analogy given that I am Chinese, and Sera is Elvish)
 
Sera hates what the Dalish Elves stand for, represent, say, and do.  I've got no problem with that as I believe the Dalish culture deserves that disdain.

I think at some point at some point Sera must have met a bunch of Dałish that went on at length about how they're the true elves and whatnot, so Sera thought: "Well, I don't want any of that so screw your true elfy-ness."

[naddaya]

Except she's nothing like Isabela

 

This. Isabela was quite wise, self-aware and accepting towards Hawke. I don't find many similarities between them.

[fizzypop]

Also I will point out you can dislike or even hate things your culture does/thinks without throwing it all out. Dorian hates the way he was being treated by his family because he's gay, but he still cares about his culture. He can hate the politics, but still find some good in his culture/homeland. Which is what we see. Iron Bull has to make a very difficult choice between his culture/religion and his people. Cullen has to deal with the fact that something he was part of for so many years had a lot of terrible things going on inside of it. Both of them can still accept the good within that though. Just like my quizzy doesn't believe in Eleven or Dalish superiority (no true elf this or that), but still does believe in her gods and the preserving of their past culture/knowledge. My problem is Sera refuses to see that grey area in my opinion. Not an issue since we have plenty of other characters who do see that, but it does make romancing her quite difficult. You are either with her or not.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

She calls you stupid for believing what you've been taught your entire life (if you're dalish) and dismisses everything you learn about the Elves' true history as "demon-worshiping" whether she was there in the party at the time or not. That is incredibly small-minded and bigoted (not the least of which I found no evidence of demon worship when I was there).

 

I have noticed that there is far more physical, empirical, and verifiable evidence for the existence of the Dalish Creators (whether they were God-like beings or not) AND the Tevinter Old Gods (what were the last 5 blights again?) than there is for the Maker (though Andraste probably did exist), but Sera just basically shuts down and says: "Nope, not real because I say its not." Sera, I really want to punch you.

[Seraphim24]

Characters, especially in a BW game, do get some growth. I don't see why Sera shouldn't get some as well.... i personally don't want her to lose her humor or honesty or cheery attitude (i freaking love her for these).

 

I want her to learn that the world isn't black and white. There are grey areas everywhere.

 

And Sera do respect the inquisitor...... in her own weird way, actually. She may disagree with you a lot (or even call you out), she doesn't leave from the inquisition. She stays and fights with you, unless you kick her out.

 

Yeah but what if you want the gray area people to learn the world is sometimes black and white?

[DRTJR]

I think the better option would have been initial joviality followed by a poor attempt as consoling the bereaved party then to dismiss the issue.