1123 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

Its not those traits in a vacuum that make me evaluate the writing highly, its that there's a rational explanation behind how she acquired them, and she's very believable as a character.

 

Typically racists, bigots, etc. only show up in video games as convenient punching bags. Its really not that simple in real life. People aren't typically bigots because of an inherent flaw in their character from the moment they were born, which is exactly why its possible to change people's minds(although this can often be incredibly difficult).

 

She also demonstrates common cognitive biases quite well. Given enough self-examination, you might come to the conclusion to that you as well sometimes don't have perfect logic or reasoning. I certainly have noticed my behavior in the past to be less than perfectly rational(to be immediately defensive of one's ideas for example, is something I'm guilty of).

 

Actually I've meet quite a few racists who are simply racists because they either believe these people are 'lesser' or are internalized racists. Many it's nigh-impossible to change their minds since they'll pull a Sera; that is, they'll start insulting and hating on you for calling them on their crap until you get fed up with their rubbish and leave.

 

The problem with Sera is she does not change her mind. She doesn't want to change her mind and is prefectly fine being the hypocritical narrow-minded ass she currently is. I doubt you constantly drag up someone's different religion in discussions purely so you can insult them, however.

[Xilizhra]

I just mean she evokes a kind of spiritual independence, less constant battling back and forth between ideas, more action. On a very, very simple, level, anyway, that's the idea. Similar to Viconia and Edwin and others, who weren't as easily compelled to follow "the cause." 

 

It would take more to delineate that in greater detail, but people have been reacting if nothing else to her kind of sudden "the gods are blegh," "X is dumb." They want her to be more "well I can understand your viewpoint and this and that." 

Well, trying to be understanding and communicative and being with a stubborn bigot is rather frustrating.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

The problem is she's constantly confrontational about it- even if your PC never brings up their religion unless she asks them to. Then she relentlessly attacks them over it, like she's delibertly just making them voice their opinion so she can verbally assault them and feel vindicated in her hate.

 

I don't appreciate the totally honest 'opinion' of a hateful bigot, but each to their own.

Dude, you have been told several times...  you can do any of the following:

1. Not recruit Sera
2. Not include Sera in your Party
3. Not talk to Sera
4. Kick Sera out of the Inquisition
5. Not play a Dalish Elf and try and romance Sera
6. Not play a Dalish Elf that romances Solas and then goes running to Sera for emotional support

And Kefka has hit the nail right on the head.  In the past, RPG's included polarizing characters who had strong opinions, and it made their games great.  When whiners complain that they only want homogeneity in the companion choices, it reduces everything to the level of bland non-choices, like Clear Channel radio stations.  I honestly don't know why you're even playing the game if you feel so strongly about imposing your head canon and personal vision on everything, it's an RPG.  Play a role.  Not yourself.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Also this applies to real life. Some people won't date religious people....

Me, for one.

OK, now step up and try to explain to me how I am required to date anyone, ever.
 

Sera is religious. However she breaks up with you if you're in a romance with her and repeatedly calls you stupid if you yourself is religous. She's a hypocrite.

Conveniently rephrasing issue to be just about generic, non-specific "religion" rather than about specific beliefs or dogma. Do you think a pantheist is just naturally going to support you in your Scientology or Raelianism or when you head out to worship Thor?

 

Specifics matter.

[Kimarous]

Anyway, the absurdity of worshiping open-mindedness and being very closed-minded about it aside,

 

Open-minded... closed-minded...

 

Maybe her religious intolerance has to do with her dislike of magic? Sera isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp, and she might construe the idea of being "open-minded" (as in "thinking freely and without prejudice") and "leaving your mind open and susceptible to demonic influence." She's the type of religious person who views other forms of religion as worshipping false gods, and false gods tend to be "demons." Ergo, someone acting open-minded to such things is, in her eyes, leaving themselves vulnerable to demonic forces. Conversely, keeping her mind shut and rejecting any belief in such forces keeps her "safe" from such things.

 

Maybe that's her line of thinking?

[Vandicus]

Actually I've meet quite a few racists who are simply racists because they either believe these people are 'lesser' or are internalized racists. Many it's nigh-impossible to change their minds since they'll pull a Sera; that is, they'll start insulting and hating on you for calling them on their crap until you get fed up with their rubbish and leave.

 

The problem with Sera is she does not change her mind. She doesn't want to change her mind and is prefectly fine being the hypocritical narrow-minded ass she currently is. I doubt you constantly drag up someone's different religion in discussions purely so you can insult them, however.

 

 

I'm not saying she has good moral character. I did bring up the Joker comparison after all(though I don't think she's a mass murdering sociopath, although she comes off a bit sociopathic at times).

 

She does seem very real. A character that we disagree with whose views we are unable to change or who takes actions against us according to their views? Damn that almost sounds like a person.

 

My idea of a well-written character is that they have their own identity, regardless of whether the identity is malleable. 

[Seraphim24]

Well, trying to be understanding and communicative and being with a stubborn bigot is rather frustrating.

 

Well, labels of bigotry and stubborn-ness aside, I believe that's the point. The characters that evoke my interest are ones that, I don't want to say are frustrating, but at least are challenging. 

 

The world and everything in it can be a challenging place, video games that represent those kinds of realities are what make them interesting and special, and also can help provide solutions and understanding.

 

Staying out of these eternal conflicts entirely doesn't produce much of anything. 

 

Loghain (sic?) is fairly insular, at times, I don't think he listened to my character once, but I thought that made him a more interesting character, not less. 

 

Leliana in comparison was more of a push-over, and so I lost interest more quickly. 

 

In DA:I Josephine (although I'm sure has her moments) seemed more that way to me. 

[Xilizhra]

I'm not saying she has good moral character. I did bring up the Joker comparison after all(though I don't think she's a mass murdering sociopath, although she comes off a bit sociopathic at times).

 

She does seem very real. A character that we disagree with whose views we are unable to change or who takes actions against us according to their views? Damn that almost sounds like a person.

 

My idea of a well-written character is that they have their own identity, regardless of whether the identity is malleable. 

A person we're outright forbidden from having any thoughtful discussions with on the subject? That's not a very satisfying person.

[Seraphim24]

And Kefka has hit the nail right on the head.  In the past, RPG's included polarizing characters who had strong opinions, and it made their games great.  When whiners complain that they only want homogeneity in the companion choices, it reduces everything to the level of bland non-choices, like Clear Channel radio stations.  I honestly don't know why you're even playing the game if you feel so strongly about imposing your head canon and personal vision on everything, it's an RPG.  Play a role.  Not yourself.

 

At this point it's just what new insult is going to be thrown Sera's way. 

 

I mean really, so Sera is so evil and malicious but we have like 15 pages now of labels against Sera like

 

1. Sociopath

2. Malicious

3. Murderer

4. Racist

5. ***

6. Dumb

7. Bigoted

 

Really so SERA is the insulting one REALLY guys. 

[KiwiQuiche]

I'm not saying she has good moral character. I did bring up the Joker comparison after all(though I don't think she's a mass murdering sociopath, although she comes off a bit sociopathic at times).

 

She does seem very real. A character that we disagree with whose views we are unable to change or who takes actions against us according to their views? Damn that almost sounds like a person.

 

My idea of a well-written character is that they have their own identity, regardless of whether the identity is malleable. 

 

Forgive me if I don't feel inclinced to be appreciative of the fact one of the companions we get in a fantasy game is a bigoticed racist who remains the same throughout the game and constantly insults your character. Forgive me if I don't want the typical every-day-hate I already get irl to be all over my games. Forgive me if I hate these kind of people and want nothing to do with them much less have them as a 'companion'.

 

Yeah they wrote a character based on irl people. Too bad they only took all the disgusting traits and stuffed it into one person.

[KiwiQuiche]

At this point it's just what new insult is going to be thrown Sera's way. 

 

I mean really, so Sera is so evil and malicious but we have...

 

1. Sociopath

2. Malicious

3. Murderer

4. Racist

5. ***

6. Dumb

7. Bigoted

 

Really so SERA is the insulting one REALLY guys. 

I've never actually seen someone call Sera 'evil'. She's the rest tho.

[Vandicus]

A person we're outright forbidden from having any thoughtful discussions with on the subject? That's not a very satisfying person.

Fair enough. 

 

Characters can't always be satisfying of all desires though.

 

Aveline being unromanceable in DA2 was pretty cool(the extension to DA:I of this kind of thing is nice), but that meant other people couldn't romance her(their desire to romance her was left unsatisfied to provide the satisfaction of verisimilitude).

 

The desire to change the minds of characters will be left unfulfilled in any character with a strong enough identity so as to be absolutely unwilling to compromise it.

 

I personally find a mix to be preferable, some people we can convince, some we can't, some people we can romance, some we can't. Its all personal preference though.

[Xilizhra]

Fair enough. 

 

Characters can't always be satisfying of all desires though.

 

Aveline being unromanceable in DA2 was pretty cool(the extension to DA:I of this kind of thing is nice), but that meant other people couldn't romance her(their desire to romance her was left unsatisfied to provide the satisfaction of verisimilitude).

 

The desire to change the minds of characters will be left unfulfilled in any character with a strong enough identity so as to be absolutely unwilling to compromise it.

 

I personally find a mix to be preferable, some people we can convince, some we can't, some people we can romance, some we can't. Its all personal preference though.

I'd really rather make such people unromanceable, instead of eating my single lesbian slot.

[Vandicus]

Forgive me if I don't feel inclinced to be appreciative of the fact one of the companions we get in a fantasy game is a bigoticed racist who remains the same throughout the game and constantly insults your character. Forgive me if I don't want the typical every-day-hate I already get irl to be all over my games. Forgive me if I hate these kind of people and want nothing to do with them much less have them as a 'companion'.

 

Yeah they wrote a character based on irl people. Too bad they only took all the disgusting traits and stuffed it into one person.

 

I'm actually rather fond of evil companions and chaotic neutral ones in games. There is an audience of people willing to play as or alongside evil characters(in relation to Bioware games, SWTOR has the Empire faction which is pretty darn evil).

[Seraphim24]

Well clearly the extreme hypocrisy of having an entire thread devoted to calling Sera a "B**tch" and somehow not being at all guilty of being insulting or asinine themselves has been lost on virtually every other person here. 

 

It's unfortunate how the whiners have even penetrated Bioware, as if anything in a simple video game could ever be so harmful as this thread itself. 

 

Anyway, if anyone who is not a hate-spewing walking bomb of contradictions, and apparently has nothing else to do in their life except post continuously about how horrible this video game person is for interfering and intervening in their life (like they couldn't just go elsewhere), and was simply interested in Sera's character I say good for them, there's something there that's different and that is 100% ok. It makes the game world richer and better. 

[Xilizhra]

Well clearly the extreme hypocrisy of having an entire thread devoted to calling Sera a "B**tch" and somehow not being at all guilty of being insulting or asinine themselves has been lost on virtually every other person here. 

 

It's unfortunate how the whiners have even penetrated Bioware, as if anything in a simple video game could ever be so harmful as this thread itself. 

Exactly whom does this thread harm?

[Vandicus]

I'd really rather make such people unromanceable, instead of eating my single lesbian slot.

 

She's definitely not the most palatable of characters, having a Chaotic Neutral as the only companion romance option is pretty rough. I think that's a legitimate concern beyond her qualities as a written character.

[Xilizhra]

She's definitely not the most palatable of characters, having a Chaotic Neutral as the only companion romance option is pretty rough. I think that's a legitimate concern beyond her qualities as a written character.

That's really my biggest problem. If it wasn't for that, she'd just be another character I disagreed with.

[Fizzie Panda]

Sera blew my mind. Before the game was released I wasn't too fond of her, but after playing her specific missions, I love her character.
 
The point of Sera is comic relief, BioWare didn't want Inquisition to be a depressing, morbid game throughout, so they gave us Sera.
She's ridiculously funny, but she does have depth.

 

Spoiler

When you're on the roof with her, because why wouldn't you be, she opens up about her past and how she was an orphan. She grew to hate nobility because a certain noble played the Game and taught her to hate without reason. (Something like that)

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I'd really rather make such people unromanceable, instead of eating my single lesbian slot.

Back in the day of Baldur's Gate, we had NO lesbian "slots" at all... so I am thankful and appreciative of Bioware's attempts to be as inclusive as possible, within the limitations of game design.  People complaining about "romance slots" come across to me as incredibly entitled and spoiled, and so I have very little sympathy for them.  We just had a holiday weekend following the game debut whose sole purpose was to remind us of the things we have to be thankful for, to remember the myriad ways we have been fortunate or blessed, and to see the entitlement crowd already pulpit-thumping on Bioware's forums is a real bummer for me. 

[WildOrchid]

I'd really rather make such people unromanceable, instead of eating my single lesbian slot.

 

Nah, i'm fine with such people. Sera's romance is actually great if you don't roll an elf or don't bother with the whole dalish stuff.

 

Disagreeing with her views doesn't make her lesser as a romance.

[Seraphim24]

Exactly whom does this thread harm?

 

I said could ever be as harmful, not necessarily implying it does something, which it doesn't. I of course can go away just as easily. 

 

My main objective was to point out the hypocrisy for how much they hate this person for I guess being hateful.. which is... you know... an expression of hatred.

[Xilizhra]

Sera blew my mind. Before the game was released I wasn't too fond of her, but after playing her specific missions, I love her character.
 
The point of Sera is comic relief, BioWare didn't want Inquisition to be a depressing, morbid game throughout, so they gave us Sera.
She's ridiculously funny, but she does have depth.

 

Spoiler

When you're on the roof with her, because why wouldn't you be, she opens up about her past and how she was an orphan. She grew to hate nobility because a certain noble played the Game and taught her to hate without reason. (Something like that)

Strangely, she's depressed me more than any other character. In all DA games.

 

 

Back in the day of Baldur's Gate, we had NO lesbian "slots" at all... so I am thankful and appreciative of Bioware's attempts to be as inclusive as possible, within the limitations of game design.  People complaining about "romance slots" come across to me as incredibly entitled and spoiled, and so I have very little sympathy for them.  We just had a holiday weekend following the game debut whose sole purpose was to remind us of the things we have to be thankful for, to remember the myriad ways we have been fortunate or blessed, and to see the entitlement crowd already pulpit-thumping on Bioware's forums is a real bummer for me. 

And we didn't get these slots by not speaking out and just faking gratitude for being inadequately provided for. We will continue to provide feedback.

 

Also, your "we" only includes Americans.

 

 

Nah, i'm fine with such people. Sera's romance is actually great if you don't roll an elf or don't bother with the whole dalish stuff.

 

Disagreeing with her views doesn't make her lesser as a romance.

And if you do, then all you have left is someone who's not a companion and has a very badly written romance scene.

[Nathair Nimheil]

She has an issue with your religion while being religous herself purely because of her racist attitude.

Racist... Self Hating Elf... damn this is getting silly..

 

Look; I am "white" and I hate, seriously hate the Ku Klux Klan it's policies, actions and each and every single one of it's members, supporters and enablers.

 

By your "logic" that makes me a racist, bigoted, self-hating "white" person.

 

The paucity of "crime" being produced in this thread to bolster and justify the hatred of Sera has become, honestly, self-parody. Fine, you* don't like her, you* don't have to and you* don't have to explain it and you* certainly don't have to keep on flailing over and over for newer, more vile, more appalling crimes to accuse her of.

 

*The impersonal you

[Xilizhra]

Racist... Self Hating Elf... damn this is getting silly..

 

Look; I am "white" and I hate, seriously hate the Ku Klux Klan it's policies, actions and each and every single one of it's members, supporters and enablers.

 

By your "logic" that makes me a racist, bigoted, self-hating "white" person.

 

The paucity of "crime" being produced in this thread to bolster and justify the hatred of Sera has become, honestly, self-parody. Fine, you* don't like her, you* don't have to and you* don't have to explain it and you* certainly don't have to keep on flailing over and over for newer, more vile, more appalling crimes to accuse her of.

 

*The impersonal you

Your analogies comparing the Dalish to the KKK are growing dangerously close to outright trolling.

 

I will admit that I'm mostly mad because of the romance arrangements. It's not like Sera actually does much that's hurtful, only says stupid/terrible things.