1123 réponses à ce sujet

[Adam Ahmed]

Shows what you know which is nothing. I know many female aspies and they so aren't all like that, and if you forgot she's a natural prodigy with a bow. She needed no trainer to be as good as she is which surprises many people.

Not true. She basically admits later she had some training. They gave her a ''chance'' remember? It's in her dailouge when she comes clean to you. She basically said she learned the bow properly when given a chance by some people.

 

 

She basically bullshitted you like Leilaina does in Dragon Age Origin by saying she just {Picked things up" but we later find out she was trained as a bard. 

[Xilizhra]

Really? You actually think religious conflict in a magical, high-fantasy setting with multiple pantheons of actual demons, spirits and real, living gods is exactly the same as friction between, say, Catholics and Protestants? Seriously?

You've managed to repeatedly avoid saying anything about the actual point, namely how this somehow makes religious bigotry more tolerable.

 

 

Depends on what you mean by "nationalist bigotry". That is a very loaded term. Are you talking about something like Anti-Americanism in Canada or are you talking about the way Palestinians feel about Israelis?

Whichever one makes you lethally attack the target group if they stay close to you for too long.

[randomcheeses]

Seems to me, Sera has internalised classism and racism issues caused by her upbringing (e.g. the cookies incident). She means well, but just can't bring herself to acknowledge her own hypocrisy because it would damage the positive image she has of herself and her ego currently isn't capable of dealing with that. Hopefully she'll get some character development in any story dlcs that Bioware have planned, because she certainly didn't get any during the base game.

[Nathair Nimheil]

You've managed to repeatedly avoid saying anything about the actual point, namely how this somehow makes religious bigotry more tolerable.

It's always fun to discuss something with someone who insists on using the narrowest definitions and the most inflammatory language possible. Sera's disdain for the Dalish is "tolerable" because it's not "religious bigotry". I've repeatedly tried to point out that the term is inappropriate because "religion" here is a marker for an entire ethos and ideology.

Would you call the suppression of the Thuggee "religious bigotry"? Only if Sera were a member, right?
 

Whichever one makes you lethally attack the target group if they stay close to you for too long.

OK then, you should understand perfectly. Blaming the Palestinian/Israeli conflict on mere nationalism is an inaccurate and misleading characterization much like blaming Sera's issues with Dalish "Elfyness" on religion. While it is true that Palestine and Israel are nations, it is not mere nationalism which fuels the conflict there, the situation is enormously more complex than that. Likewise, while it is true that Sera and the Dalish have "different religions" (sort of), it is not religious bigotry which fuels that conflict. In both cases the marker, nationality in one case and "religion" in the other, are identifiers more than motivators.

[blussi]

Love how polarizing her character can b .

 

I personally love her. She can be an ass but sweet kind of ass. Like Archer really. 

[Xilizhra]

It's always fun to discuss something with someone who insists on using the narrowest definitions and the most inflammatory language possible. Sera's disdain for the Dalish is "tolerable" because it's not "religious bigotry". I've repeatedly tried to point out that the term is inappropriate because "religion" here is a marker for an entire ethos and ideology.

Would you call the suppression of the Thuggee "religious bigotry"? Only if Sera were a member, right?

Problematic analogy because violence committed by the Dalish Inquisitor wasn't Sera's issue; rather, it was the Dalish Inquisitor's beliefs. The Inquisitor's practices weren't the subject of that blowup at all (and if you're romancing Sera, her practices can't have been too bothersome).

 

 

OK then, you should understand perfectly. Blaming the Palestinian/Israeli conflict on mere nationalism is an inaccurate and misleading characterization much like blaming Sera's issues with Dalish "Elfyness" on religion. While it is true that Palestine and Israel are nations, it is not mere nationalism which fuels the conflict there, the situation is enormously more complex than that. Likewise, while it is true that Sera and the Dalish have "different religions" (sort of), it is not religious bigotry which fuels that conflict. In both cases the marker, nationality in one case and "religion" in the other, are identifiers more than motivators.

It's funny, because I never used that analogy; you did.Though that conflict is a perfect blend of nationalism and religious extremism on both sides that might make a reasonable fit.

[Nathair Nimheil]

rather, it was the Dalish Inquisitor's beliefs.

Right, like if I dumped you because you were a member of PETA or the KKK or NAMBLA that would be "bigotry" about your beliefs.
 

Though that conflict is a perfect blend of nationalism and religious extremism on both sides that might make a reasonable fit.

So you look at Israel and Palestine and you see "nationalism and religious extremism"? You don't see the fallout from imperialism, colonialism, conquest and two hundred years of armed conflict. Well then, sure, I can see why you consider Sera's disdain "religious bigotry." It too is the simplest, most superficial way of looking at things.

[Xilizhra]

Right, like if I dumped you because you were a member of PETA or the KKK or NAMBLA that would be "bigotry" about your beliefs.

Didn't you angrily deny that you'd compared the Dalish to the KKK before, yet now you do so again? And that still doesn't address the actual issue, which is Sera breaking up with you because you don't denounce the Creators as lying demons.

 

 

So you look at Israel and Palestine and you see "nationalism and religious extremism"? You don't see the fallout from imperialism, colonialism, conquest and two hundred years of armed conflict. Well then, sure, I can see why you consider Sera's disdain "religious bigotry." It too is the simplest, most superficial way of looking at things.

I didn't say that was all, just saying that they were present.

[Johnsen1972]

Sera was never an agreeable girl -
Her tongue tells tales of rebellion.
But she was so fast,
And quick with her bow,
No one quite knew where she came from.

Sera was never quite the quietest girl -
Her attacks are loud and they’re joyful.
But she knew the ways of nobler men,
And she knew how to enrage them.

[Chorus 2x]  She would always like to say,
"Why change the past,
when you can own this day?”
Today she will fight,
To keep her way.
She’s a rogue and a thief,
And she’ll tempt your fate.

Sera was never quite the wealthiest girl -
Some say she lives in a tavern.
But she was so sharp,
and quick with a bow -
Arrows strike like a dragon.

Sera was never quite the gentlest girl -
Her eyes were sharp like a razor.
But she knew the ways of commoner men,
And she knew just how to use them.

 

[Nathair Nimheil]

Didn't you angrily deny that you'd compared the Dalish to the KKK before, yet now you do so again?

You are right, now I deny it again. I did not say "The Dalish are like the KKK". (And I notice that, for some reason, KKK stuck while PETA and NAMBLA went right by you.)

 

I was giving examples to demonstrate that dumping someone for membership in a group is (pedantically) about "their beliefs" but that doesn't exactly make it "group bigotry". LIKE dumping someone who is in the KKK (FOR EXAMPLE) would be dumping them because their membership in that organization would indicate an underlying set of beliefs which you might find repugnant. (Feel free to replace "the KKK" with "the ACLU" or "NOM" or "Code Pink" or anything that will allow you to stop attacking the details of the analogy and address my actual point.)
 

I didn't say that was all, just saying that they were present.

Great! So you are willing to recognize that superficial elements like mere religion are not necessarily the source of conflict but may just serve as indicators and identifiers of underlying ethos or ideology (conflict with which is certainly a reasonable basis for terminating a romantic relationship). Then let's not pretend "religious bigotry" is the actual totality of the issue any more, OK?

[Xilizhra]

You are right, now I deny it again. I did not say "The Dalish are like the KKK". (And I notice that, for some reason, KKK stuck while PETA and NAMBLA went right by you.)

 

I was giving examples to demonstrate that dumping someone for membership in a group is (pedantically) about "their beliefs" but that doesn't exactly make it "group bigotry". LIKE dumping someone who is in the KKK (FOR EXAMPLE) would be dumping them because their membership in that organization would indicate an underlying set of beliefs which you might find repugnant. (Feel free to replace "the KKK" with "the ACLU" or "NOM" or "Code Pink" or anything that will allow you to stop attacking the details of the analogy and address my actual point.)

PETA is toothless and NAMBLA is a joke (in fact, I think it might literally be a joke).

 

The thing here is that my Inquisitor was already a Dalish, which seems... fairly obvious, given that half of her face is tattooed. It clearly wasn't membership in such that was the problem.

 

 

Great! So you are willing to recognize that superficial elements like mere religion are not necessarily the source of conflict but may just serve as indicators and identifiers of underlying ethos or ideology (conflict with which is certainly a reasonable basis for terminating a romantic relationship). Then let's not pretend "religious bigotry" is the actual totality of the issue any more, OK?

Given that the sole issue in the scenario we currently speak of is a matter of what you believe in, no.

[Mihura]

It would be quite funny if it turns out she was a daughter of a really rich noble woman but run way, when she was old enough because of the casual racism she had to endure. My bet is that Sera was raise in a more wealthy environment than most but she was never one of them nor one of the city elves, so in a way she as a lot of inner image problems and self hate.
 

But she knew the ways of commoner men,

And she knew just how to use them.

 

Even with the song it sounds like her beef with noble is more about a personal matter than a social cause, she does indeed use them all.

[Dhraiden]

Sera is annoying as ****. I can't even like her a little, and I've really tried. If there was an option to kill her/have her be killed/exiled, I'd do it in a second.

 

EDIT: so as not to be too harsh...I really like what Sera's character is supposed to represesnt. The downtrodden masses, the invisible underlings, etc, etc, nobles getting their comeuppance. But her voice is like nails on a chalkboard. And her face (not that she needs to be 'pretty', Aveline wasn't typically prety and I thought she looked great as something different from the stereotype) ...argh. Now I'm literally hoping there's a way to feed her to an Archdemon.

[wetnasty]

There were quite a few times I wanted to backhand the hell out of her (she reminds me of people who claim they're not white, they're American) but looking back I think that's actually indicates good Bioware writing. There are so many times where I'm playing a game and the script just wants you to know that this person is evil because they do everything evil you can imagine. You're destined to hate them. They have no redeemable features and you shouldn't even look at them as a person. 

 

In Sera's case, she's just a colossal dick, but there's still somewhat of a story there... if you can stand her long enough to get to that point. It makes her more like a human (no pun intended) because I'm sure there are people at everyone's work/school/whatever that are just complete and total dicks, but you still have to work with them. At the end of the day, when you have to team up with them, you pretty much want the same thing, but that doesn't change the fact that they're dicks. To have a video game character remind you of that is pretty good writing IMO. 

[Calimwulf]

Sera be awesome. I am forced to figure out a way to always have her in the party. It doesn't matter who it is, she pokes fun at them. Lord have mercy, but when Iron tries to get her to stop taking his kills and she tells him to 'learn to move faster'. I was laughing so hard my wife wanted to know who I was skyping with.

[sangy]

I haven't read a lot on romance options, but I tried Sera on first playthrough.  I was shocked at the outcome.  I tried really hard to do the right thing and win over Sera, but I did once flirt with Cassandra because it was a compliment response.  No other flirting at all.  In the end she totally stone walled me and my poor character ended up all alone.  Seriously, I hope the other options aren't this bad. 

 

The first two DAs you were able to flirt and still end up okay at the end.  Sera takes the ice queen cake over Morrigan by a thousand fold.  Toughest romance character ever to exist in a video game.  They really did a horrible job with that.

 

I love DA:I.  It's beautiful and there are too many things I love about it, but the romance options so far don't look promising and did anyone notice that none of the dialog is directed at your character anymore?  I don't even mind if I don't have an option to respond, but they just talk to each other, not your character.  That was not a good idea.  Sad, these things could have been worked out very easily I think.

[wetnasty]

I haven't read a lot on romance options, but I tried Sera on first playthrough.  I was shocked at the outcome.  I tried really hard to do the right thing and win over Sera, but I did once flirt with Cassandra because it was a compliment response.  No other flirting at all.  In the end she totally stone walled me and my poor character ended up all alone.  Seriously, I hope the other options aren't this bad. 

 

The first two DAs you were able to flirt and still end up okay at the end.  Sera takes the ice queen cake over Morrigan by a thousand fold.  Toughest romance character ever to exist in a video game.  They really did a horrible job with that.

 

I love DA:I.  It's beautiful and there are too many things I love about it, but the romance options so far don't look promising and did anyone notice that none of the dialog is directed at your character anymore?  I don't even mind if I don't have an option to respond, but they just talk to each other, not your character.  That was not a good idea.  Sad, these things could have been worked out very easily I think.

 

I flirted with many people and still ended up with Dorian. Maybe she's just not that into you. 

[robertthebard]

I haven't read a lot on romance options, but I tried Sera on first playthrough.  I was shocked at the outcome.  I tried really hard to do the right thing and win over Sera, but I did once flirt with Cassandra because it was a compliment response.  No other flirting at all.  In the end she totally stone walled me and my poor character ended up all alone.  Seriously, I hope the other options aren't this bad. 
 
The first two DAs you were able to flirt and still end up okay at the end.  Sera takes the ice queen cake over Morrigan by a thousand fold.  Toughest romance character ever to exist in a video game.  They really did a horrible job with that.
 
I love DA:I.  It's beautiful and there are too many things I love about it, but the romance options so far don't look promising and did anyone notice that none of the dialog is directed at your character anymore?  I don't even mind if I don't have an option to respond, but they just talk to each other, not your character.  That was not a good idea.  Sad, these things could have been worked out very easily I think.

Was your character a male? Sera is a lesbian, so if so, you got stonewalled because she's not into guys.

[Nathair Nimheil]

The thing here is that my Inquisitor was already a Dalish, which seems... fairly obvious, given that half of her face is tattooed. It clearly wasn't membership in such that was the problem.

It obviously seemed clear to you. Problem is that your character was merely presented (at the beginning of the game) as of Dalish origin. (Which, if Sera were the mindless bigot you claim, would have meant the relationship would never even have begun.) Throughout the course of the game you are presented with opportunities to (among other things) deny or avow your continued "membership in the Dalish", so to speak. You can become an atheist, believe in The Maker or stick with the Elven gods etc. You chose to uphold your embrace of Dalish "elfyness" and so she dumped you. Hardly a surprise if you think of her as a person.
 
 

Given that the sole issue in the scenario we currently speak of is a matter of what you believe in

But it's not, it's about what your belief means. That is the point. Unfortunately it is a point I have made about twenty times to you. It's not getting through, for whatever reason. I'm going to stop trying now.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Toughest romance character ever to exist in a video game.  They really did a horrible job with that.

I don't see how the first sentence leads to the second sentence. Why was the goal to make her easy?

[WildOrchid]

I haven't read a lot on romance options, but I tried Sera on first playthrough.  I was shocked at the outcome.  I tried really hard to do the right thing and win over Sera, but I did once flirt with Cassandra because it was a compliment response.  No other flirting at all.  In the end she totally stone walled me and my poor character ended up all alone.  Seriously, I hope the other options aren't this bad. 

 

The first two DAs you were able to flirt and still end up okay at the end.  Sera takes the ice queen cake over Morrigan by a thousand fold.  Toughest romance character ever to exist in a video game.  They really did a horrible job with that.

 

I love DA:I.  It's beautiful and there are too many things I love about it, but the romance options so far don't look promising and did anyone notice that none of the dialog is directed at your character anymore?  I don't even mind if I don't have an option to respond, but they just talk to each other, not your character.  That was not a good idea.  Sad, these things could have been worked out very easily I think.

 

Sera is a very easy flirt actually. If you know her ideals, you'll get approvals from her easily..... also if you rolled a dude then i'm very sure you'll never manage to bed her.

[ApostateHumor]

After looking over some things, it seems that the most common sense I've seen regarding people's problems with Sera circulates around her internalized racism/classism re: elves, her (willful) ignorance regarding magic & willingness to stick to the simplest of Chantry talk to dismiss anything that might hint that there's plenty of other things out there (atop of the possibility of the Maker, etc etc etc). When summarized however, it simply sounds like she's exactly what the (majority of) humans want all elves to be like, so anyone who is particularly Pro Human/Pro Chantry/Anti Magic should pretty much love her, if you ask me.

 

Which I still found her amusing plenty of times & useful more than once, so I think if people just tune out the things that (like me, when she reminded me of Sebastian at his more annoying moments) they might disagree with (honestly, I had no trouble playing a male character just getting her friendship high enough & fully friending her & then never instigating any Super Deep friendship conversations - if there were any to be had beyond the prank run) and getting along just fine while having the maximum # of allies possible. And if you simply want to have her as an ally but not bother to do the friendship thing, then so be it, it won't do any harm from what I've seen.

[MindWeb]

It would be quite funny if it turns out she was a daughter of a really rich noble woman but run way, when she was old enough because of the casual racism she had to endure. My bet is that Sera was raise in a more wealthy environment than most but she was never one of them nor one of the city elves, so in a way she as a lot of inner image problems and self hate.

If you get her to approve of you enough to open up to you, you find out this exactly. She was taken in by a rich noble woman, who she hated because she lied to make her seem better, saying that the baker was racist towards elves when he wasn't because she wanted Sera to eat her cookies, and Sera despised her for lying to her like that a lot.

[Johnsen1972]

When I talked with her she said she grew up in the Denerim alienage. Suddenly everything about her made sense.

 

Her complete lack of faith in the nobility?  Her extreme fear of magic?  Her anger at the exploitation of the little people, and her refusal to ever be pinned down or controlled?

 

All of those things can be explained. I played a city elf myself in DAO.

 

She is sometimes very sad, very angry and then very happy..She has so many different faces and if you try to understand what she is going through you will love her! A great character! 

[DKJaigen]

 

Her complete lack of faith in the nobility?  Her extreme fear of magic?  Her anger at the exploitation of the little people, and her refusal to ever be pinned down or controlled?

 

 

Lack of faith or a simple excuse for her actions? has fear of magic but has no willingness to understand it. And her concern  for the common people is really touching when she send several to death to get a noble some payback(and of course not giving a damn about them). She likes to portray it as some childhood trauma how she acts but its simple selfishness