1123 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathair Nimheil]

eh i like her a little bit now i got her to admit she doesn't actually give a **** about "the little people" that's honestly enough for me

Eh?

[Northborn]

I just about never understand her.

[Ibn_Shisha]

Strange, as I progress through the story she seems to make more sense.  Or maybe I'm just getting used to her.  Probably the 2nd one, as I almost always bring her as my rogue, with Cole being Mr. Squishy McSquish glass murder knife, and Varric being more durable but with awful dps.

 

Also, I had a post-prank war table op involving Charade, so, worth it.

[Realyn]

Personally, I feel a character is well written if it provokes a strong emotional response. Kinda... like... y'know, this very thread.   A character everyone agrees on, is usually the 'boring' one from the cast. It's the ones that provoke heated debates that are remembered. Hate her, love her or anything in between, she's a memorable character whether you want her to be or not.

 

Most of the arguments against her in this thread seem to stem from a personal dislike for an antagonistic protagonist. And instead of making an argument for disliking her, which is perfectly fine, she's often immediately regarded as a badly written character. If anything, the fact that people are so adamant about 'hating' her, pretty much proves the contrary.

 

I personally love the fact that she doesn't fall perfectly in line with the 'expected' standard of RPG characters in modern gaming. I love how she provokes a negative reaction from her companions and gamers alike. I love how she doesn't turn her views on the world with a full 180 degree turn after someone tell her she's supposedly wrong in-game (as happens way too often in games). There are definately parts I don't like about her, but that just goes to show that an inherently flawed personality can also be an interesting twist to the cocktail that is an RPG.

 

In short; disliking a character does not equate to a badly written character. Quite the contrary.

[Kimarous]

Riddle: When is it cool to blame the troubled child and to hold her up to the standards we would demand of an adult while at the same time giving a complete ethical pass to the foster parent who lied and misled her to aggrandize herself?

 

A: When I hate Sera.

 

What part of the FIRST sentence of "Yeah, the lady who took you in screwed up in some areas" didn't you get? Oh, wait, you just ignore that to make an ad hominem attack on my argument. "Being a troubled child" =/= "your faults are completely excusable" or "you have no reason to change who you are" or "you are completely excused to call the women who raised you - not perfectly, but still, RAISED you - a "w****" because of ONE bad action that YOU made worse". See, this is an instance where Anders' comment of "letting one bad experience colour the rest of your life" would actually be appropriate.

[Radgen1]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that I believe that Sera is by far the youngest of the companions.  Everyone else appears to be either just on the lip of middle age or full blown into it.(except Cole, but he is a special case)

 

Sera is at most early 20's(she mentions still being a child when the blight hit)  While she is not in any way inexperienced she is still a very young person compared to the Inquisitor and everyone else.

[Draining Dragon]

Sera is all the worst qualities of sapient beings rolled into one person. Kind of like Anders.

[myahele]

A shame she doesn't delve into her past more. Maybe she was at the alienage when the city elf origin did her thing. Maybe she was one of those children we told a fairy tale to before the rape wedding?

In the end Sera doesn't care much of her past and as a result we never really get to know her. A shame she represents red jenny

[Tevinter Soldier]

Eh?

 

Don't know If it's just elf dialogue or what but

 

had an argument with her in which i told her she's mainly just a thief and If people get helped out as a result its just an happy side effect (paraphrasing the description) to which she replied, So what......ton's of people do things that don't benefit anyone but themselves.

 

right there facade broken, she admitted she just stole **** because she wanted her aim is to steal and if somebody get's helped by it well thats a cherry on top but when it get's right done to it shes just a thief, stealing for herself.

 

also got her to admit she didn't feel any responsibility for the 4 common men she got killed in her personal mission, "people die all time" no responsibility for the part she played, how her "game" put them in danger and then killed. flatout didn't care. 

 

Plight of Mages "don't care"

 

At this point i'm wondering if she will cop to not giving a stuff about city elves as well. before i broke off conversations with and just stopped talking to her or kicked her out once i got my jar of bees.

 

turns out if you choose the right dialogue options actually, fight her. She'll admit its all just bullshit. I mean if she freely admits that the death's of normal people "not jennys" are irrelevant even the one's she get's killed are met with a nonchalant "**** happens innit" cop's to theft being her primary goal.

 

If fact i've never heard her once in this play through talking about the "little people" in terms of anything other than an asset.

[Nathair Nimheil]

What part of the FIRST sentence of "Yeah, the lady who took you in screwed up in some areas" didn't you get? Oh, wait, you just ignore that to make an ad hominem attack on my argument. "Being a troubled child" =/= "your faults are completely excusable" or "you have no reason to change who you are" or "you are completely excused to call the women who raised you - not perfectly, but still, RAISED you - a "w****" because of ONE bad action that YOU made worse". See, this is an instance where Anders' comment of "letting one bad experience colour the rest of your life" would actually be appropriate.

Um, no. An ad hominem attack would be if I attacked you instead of your argument. Like saying "Well you have blond hair so obviously we can't trust you, all people with blond hair are liars." 

 

As to the rest of it, I stand by my point. You are holding a child to a rigorous standard of ethical behaviour while giving the supposedly responsible adult authority figure a pass. And it is the child you are judging since, as we have seen, the adult Sera is racked with guilt over her behaviour (which is why she remains so angry at the woman who set her upon that path.) Further, that this was an aberration on the part of her foster mother is pure supposition on your part. Sera tells this one tale with the label "She hurt people!" and no concluding "but other than that she was perfectly wonderful."

[Shelidon]

This is the first time ever I send away a character in my first playthrough. After her personal quest, after asking my troops to match through a town just for her "friends" sake, while I was talking to a guy and actually deciding I didn't want to be his ally, she repeatedly interrupted me and then stepped in and killed him. While I was TALKING to him. That was enough. We don't want to be this kind of Inquisition. She had to go.
First. Time. Ever.
And I have been able to keep Fenris happy while being a pro-mage mage in Da2: I am usually keen on working to keep all my companions for the sake of the additional content, in my first playthrough.
This was just too much.

As other said before me, this doesn't meet she's badly written: quite the contrary.
Still.
Good riddance.

[Nathair Nimheil]

If fact i've never heard her once in this play through talking about the "little people" in terms of anything other than an asset.

Obviously with such loose paraphrasing it's very difficult to make distinctions but there are some things that are very clear. First, of course, is that Sera never said "I always support the underdog!" so if she doesn't fit into that pigeonhole it's your fault for trying to put her in there. Secondly I find some of your interpretations troubling. For example, the deaths on her personal quest are not just casually waved aside as you suggest, unless perhaps you had a different playthrough than what I am familiar with. Likewise the fact that she uses people to get results, which is one of the first thing she tells you, does not mean she doesn't care about what happens to those people or that the results are all about personal gain and I certainly didn't hear her say anything to that effect.

I would love to see some quotes of the actual text if anybody has 'em. It would be interesting and instructive, I think, to see how people can come to such different conclusions from the same dialogue.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Obviously with such loose paraphrasing it's very difficult to make distinctions but there are some things that are very clear. First, of course, is that Sera never said "I always support the underdog!" so if she doesn't fit into that pigeonhole it's your fault for trying to put her in there. Secondly I find some of your interpretations troubling. For example, the deaths on her personal quest are not just casually waved aside as you suggest, unless perhaps you had a different playthrough than what I am familiar with. Likewise the fact that she uses people to get results, which is one of the first thing she tells you, does not mean she doesn't care about what happens to those people or that the results are all about personal gain and I certainly didn't hear her say anything to that effect.

I would love to see some quotes of the actual text if anybody has 'em. It would be interesting and instructive, I think, to see how people can come to such different conclusions from the same dialogue.

 

Considering how much you defend her i very much doubt you have had the same dialogue as i have, choose negative options get under her skin and you will see what she's really like especially the quote about being a thief there's no way to reinterpret it. the quzzy calls her a thief and doesn't imply they out say she doesn't care and she cop's to it and makes a pitiful attempt to deflect.

 

as for the rest of your post, i never thought she gave 2 shits about anyone but herself. but please continue to act smug in your incessant defence of the character. perhaps the reason you find my interpretations troubling is because you refuse to admit she might just not be a good person.

 

We get it you like the character how long do you intend to shift the focus on to those who don't agree with you rather than stepping back and thinking gee's 42 pages of many different posters saying they don't like her. could it in fact be that her character isn't some misunderstood snowflake and really is just a whiny ******?

[Vyndral]

This thread is a giggle. Keep up the good work.

[Heimdall]

Considering how much you defend her i very much doubt you have had the same dialogue as i have, choose negative options get under her skin and you will see what she's really like especially the quote about being a thief there's no way to reinterpret it. the quzzy calls her a thief and doesn't imply they out say she doesn't care and she cop's to it and makes a pitiful attempt to deflect.
 
as for the rest of your post, i never thought she gave 2 shits about anyone but herself. but please continue to act smug in your incessant defence of the character. perhaps the reason you find my interpretations troubling is because you refuse to admit she might just not be a good person.
 
We get it you like the character how long do you intend to shift the focus on to those who don't agree with you rather than stepping back and thinking gee's 42 pages of many different posters saying they don't like her. could it in fact be that her character isn't some misunderstood snowflake and really is just a whiny ******?

You could just give him the direct quotes he asked for.

You seem just as determined to see her as a bad person as he is not to.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Considering how much you defend her i very much doubt you have had the same dialogue as i have, choose negative options get under her skin and you will see what she's really like especially the quote about being a thief there's no way to reinterpret it.

Hence my wish to see transcripts or video. It would be nice to see exactly what people are seeing rather than hearing the filtered and paraphrased versions.
 

i never thought she gave 2 shits about anyone but herself. but please continue to act smug in your incessant defence of the character.

Well, you've certainly convinced me that you're not eager to judge people you disagree with.
 

We get it you like the character how long do you intend to shift the focus on to those who don't agree with you rather than stepping back and thinking gee's 42 pages of many different posters saying they don't like her. could it in fact be that her character isn't some misunderstood snowflake and really is just a whiny ******?

Hmmm...

[Tevinter Soldier]

You could just give him the direct quotes he asked for.

You seem just as determined to see her as a bad person as he is not to.

 

and if i had the direct quotes he asked for i'd happily turn the over, sadly my memory does not recall word for word a line in game i last played 14 hours ago. 

[Reznore57]

This is the first time ever I send away a character in my first playthrough. After her personal quest, after asking my troops to match through a town just for her "friends" sake, while I was talking to a guy and actually deciding I didn't want to be his ally, she repeatedly interrupted me and then stepped in and killed him. While I was TALKING to him. That was enough. We don't want to be this kind of Inquisition. She had to go.
First. Time. Ever.
And I have been able to keep Fenris happy while being a pro-mage mage in Da2: I am usually keen on working to keep all my companions for the sake of the additional content, in my first playthrough.
This was just too much.

As other said before me, this doesn't meet she's badly written: quite the contrary.
Still.
Good riddance.

 

Mmm I think the fact that she's really violent during this scene works against her.

What happens is two nobles are fighting , peasents are getting killed because of this so she ask you to send troops so the nobles calm down.

Anyway then one of her friend tell her he got something for her , you go to the rendez vous and it was one of the noble trying to kill her.

Her "friend " get killed , the noble doesn't care and try to strike a deal with the Inquisitor.

 

Basically it's like if one of the Inquisitor soldier got killed , then the guy says he also wants to kill you , and Sera would just stand there and begin to see if she could make a deal with the agressor.

If you were in her shoes , you'd be pissed off too.

[Alexius]

She's very well written if she can fuel this very thread.

 

I don't think she's perfect, quite the contrary. But she's lively and beneath all those layers of crazy, somehow she sort of makes sense.

Especially after you see where she comes from (albeit you don't get to see as much as I would've liked).

 

She's an opinionated brat, and not quite as eloquent as some other party members, but that mix somehow I got to like.

 

Still, I totally understand why others would gladly tell her to go.

[robertthebard]

Considering how much you defend her i very much doubt you have had the same dialogue as i have, choose negative options get under her skin and you will see what she's really like especially the quote about being a thief there's no way to reinterpret it. the quzzy calls her a thief and doesn't imply they out say she doesn't care and she cop's to it and makes a pitiful attempt to deflect.
 
as for the rest of your post, i never thought she gave 2 shits about anyone but herself. but please continue to act smug in your incessant defence of the character. perhaps the reason you find my interpretations troubling is because you refuse to admit she might just not be a good person.
 
We get it you like the character how long do you intend to shift the focus on to those who don't agree with you rather than stepping back and thinking gee's 42 pages of many different posters saying they don't like her. could it in fact be that her character isn't some misunderstood snowflake and really is just a whiny ******?

All of this, and all the other posts, because you believe she puts those "little people" in harm's way to "use them to get rich"?

I just want to make sure that this is, indeed, what you believe.

[Rixkey]

That's a very interesting interpretation. You reveal something about yourself that she doesn't like, and so she bails on the relationship. That is not demanding anything of you at all, it is making her own choices about what she finds appealing and who she wants in her life. It is Sera demonstrating agency. Just how much that irritates some people is quite illuminating.
 
Are you referring to Aveline? The Branka quest line?

 

See, it would have been one thing if she'd been like, "Whoa. Okay. We either need to sit down and talk about this or you need to leave because I'm not sure I can continue a relationship with you if you believe things like that." That's acknowledging there's something about the relationship she doesn't like and they need to figure it out or maybe they need to stop if they can't. That's adult. It's not like a Dalish Inquisitor revealed she was a serial killer or anything. All she has to do is not immediately fall in line with Sera's ideas about what happened at the Temple of Mythal, which is that they were all demon-worshippers and liars (remember these are the people you could have fought alongside and seen die fighting your enemies while you were taking the easier, safer path through the Temple that they showed you). She doesn't even have to express a counter opinion, she just has to express the possibility that a counter opinion might exist and Sera's immediate reaction to that is, "I knew I shouldn't have started to like you," which is a very manipulative thing to say. It isn't an opening to a conversation, it isn't an invitation to work this out the way people generally would in a healthy relationship. it's a warning designed to attack the person's emotional connection to you in order to make the person on the other end of the conversation drop everything and backpedal. Sera doesn't appear to have an interest in working things out, or in dealing with bumps in a relationship. She'll just threaten or shout them under the rug if they dare show themselves rather than deal, which sets up a pretty bad environment for anyone wanting an actual relationship with her, romantic or otherwise. It would make for an interesting character, sure, except it's never acknowledged. There's no way for an Inquisitor to sit down with her and go, "Okay, this makes me uncomfortable, and we need to figure it out." Probably because, inferring from other interactions, Sera wouldn't tolerate that. (But not having even the option isn't Sera's fault. That's a writing one. Or a game limitations one. Not sure yet.)

 

Maybe this scene wouldn't have been so harsh if, as I said previously, it wasn't repeated behavior. This is how she acts over and over, with just about everyone. She might have her reasons for it--she's definitely at least very insecure--but that doesn't excuse that it's still a pretty awful way to treat someone. Having reasons doesn't give you free reign to be horrible to the people you apparently care about. 

 

And that sounds harsh, I guess? It probably is, but that scene was one of Sera's most upsetting for me, because I really do think Sera would have been an amazing character, but the way it's handled is just really uncomfortable. At least, it is for me. 

 

I was talking more about Paragon of her Kind (so, not Branka, but the events around Branka like that entire thing with her house and Helmi) and him writing Marjolaine, yeah. Which. Villianous and dark characters being villianous and dark isn't a problem, I didn't have a problem with them before this, but with the inclusion of Sera there seems to be a definite pattern in the way he seems to think women in non-straight relationships treat each other and other people and that does make me 'ehhhhh' a little. 

 

(And I know some people like her, and I know not everyone sees her relationship as having issues. I'm not saying those people are wrong. It's a game, interpret the relationship in any way that makes you happiest if you can. This is my interpretation. Really, my original post was more...venting, I guess, than an actual structured argument, because I was surrounded by incredibly emotionally abusive--emotional abuse born out of insecurity and fear, no less--for years and every other conversation with Sera tended to involve a line that could have come right out of one of their mouths. So I can't really separate it. She reads as emotionally abusive to me. Regarding your dig about how I must not like women with agency in regards to that particular scene (under the assumption you were talking to me considering it was in regards to my post): It didn't irritate me. It upset me. Because memories.)

[robertthebard]

See, it would have been one thing if she'd been like, "Whoa. Okay. We either need to sit down and talk about this or you need to leave because I'm not sure I can continue a relationship with you if you believe things like that." That's acknowledging there's something about the relationship she doesn't like and they need to figure it out or maybe they need to stop if they can't. That's adult. It's not like a Dalish Inquisitor revealed she was a serial killer or anything. All she has to do is not immediately fall in line with Sera's ideas about what happened at the Temple of Mythal, which is that they were all demon-worshippers and liars (remember these are the people you could have fought alongside and seen die fighting your enemies while you were taking the easier, safer path through the Temple that they showed you). She doesn't even have to express a counter opinion, she just has to express the possibility that a counter opinion might exist and Sera's immediate reaction to that is, "I knew I shouldn't have started to like you," which is a very manipulative thing to say. It isn't an opening to a conversation, it isn't an invitation to work this out the way people generally would in a healthy relationship. it's a warning designed to attack the person's emotional connection to you in order to make the person on the other end of the conversation drop everything and backpedal. Sera doesn't appear to have an interest in working things out, or in dealing with bumps in a relationship. She'll just threaten or shout them under the rug if they dare show themselves rather than deal, which sets up a pretty bad environment for anyone wanting an actual relationship with her, romantic or otherwise. It would make for an interesting character, sure, except it's never acknowledged. There's no way for an Inquisitor to sit down with her and go, "Okay, this makes me uncomfortable, and we need to figure it out." Probably because, inferring from other interactions, Sera wouldn't tolerate that. (But not having even the option isn't Sera's fault. That's a writing one. Or a game limitations one. Not sure yet.)
 
Maybe this scene wouldn't have been so harsh if, as I said previously, it wasn't repeated behavior. This is how she acts over and over, with just about everyone. She might have her reasons for it--she's definitely at least very insecure--but that doesn't excuse that it's still a pretty awful way to treat someone. Having reasons doesn't give you free reign to be horrible to the people you apparently care about. 
 
And that sounds harsh, I guess? It probably is, but that scene was one of Sera's most upsetting for me, because I really do think Sera would have been an amazing character, but the way it's handled is just really uncomfortable. At least, it is for me. 
 
I was talking more about Paragon of her Kind (so, not Branka, but the events around Branka like that entire thing with her house and Helmi) and him writing Marjolaine, yeah. Which. Villianous and dark characters being villianous and dark isn't a problem, I didn't have a problem with them before this, but with the inclusion of Sera there seems to be a definite pattern in the way he seems to think women in non-straight relationships treat each other and other people and that does make me 'ehhhhh' a little. 
 
(And I know some people like her, and I know not everyone sees her relationship as having issues. I'm not saying those people are wrong. It's a game, interpret the relationship in any way that makes you happiest if you can. This is my interpretation. Really, my original post was more...venting, I guess, than an actual structured argument, because I was surrounded by incredibly emotionally abusive--emotional abuse born out of insecurity and fear, no less--for years and every other conversation with Sera tended to involve a line that could have come right out of one of their mouths. So I can't really separate it. She reads as emotionally abusive to me. Regarding your dig about how I must not like women with agency in regards to that particular scene (under the assumption you were talking to me considering it was in regards to my post): It didn't irritate me. It upset me. Because memories.)

I only have one problem with this entire post: She's been making her feelings about this subject clear from the very beginning. Asking for "She needs to compromise" is actually every bit as self serving as what you're saying she is for what she actually does. All those little, or not so little Sera Disapproves, to whatever degree are intended to tell you one thing, she disapproves of that course of action. Dialog from the moment you meet her until this point, if it's brought up, is abundantly clear. There should be no doubt in any player's mind that once she finds out that the brand that the Dalish have been holding up as a mark of superiority to the rest of the elves is a slave brand, that she's not going to think it's hilarious. It's not like she's been supporting mages and elves all the way through the game, and then blindsided someone. She's consistently against that stuff the entire game.

[Shelidon]

Basically it's like if one of the Inquisitor soldier got killed , then the guy says he also wants to kill you , and Sera would just stand there and begin to see if she could make a deal with the agressor.
If you were in her shoes , you'd be pissed off too.

The fact that really works against her is that my Inquisitor was not, in fact, striking a deal: I picked only the inquisitive dialogue choices and she was questioning him on account of his actions, unwilling to kill him on Sera's say so. That's the line of action I'm keeping for my Inquisitor, so I was playing consistently.
Her unwillingness to cool down showed very clearly that she's unfitted to join the Inquisition.
Even worst is her line of dialogue afterwards, when you return to Skyhold: she can't be reasoned with and is too much of a crazy horse. We can't afford this kind of mistakes when every single action can account against the way people see the Inquisition. She seemed really immature, and dangerously so. She had to go.

Who knows? Maybe my next Female Qunari Mage will be her best friend and sweetheart. Or she will eat her. Most likely she will eat her, and not in the pleasant way.

[chomesoon74]

The cutscene where after Sera kills the noble while you are speaking with him and you go back to her room and she disrespects you and gets in your face: if this game allowed you to actually be aligned to chaotic, I would have killed her right then and there. There is the option to tell her to get out, you are not putting up with this garbage anymore. The ONLY reason I did not do this was because I wanted to see how her character developed. It didn't. She was still the same person at the end that she was from the moment I met her.

 

She only stays loyal to you if you put up with her Red Jenny garbage or you allow her to kill nobles on sight. She mocks your leadership and decisions constantly and really only sees you as a way to prop up her Red Jenny nonsense.

 

As you can tell, I really despised her as a character.

[Vyndral]

See, it would have been one thing if she'd been like, "Whoa. Okay. We either need to sit down and talk about this or you need to leave because I'm not sure I can continue a relationship with you if you believe things like that." That's acknowledging there's something about the relationship she doesn't like and they need to figure it out or maybe they need to stop if they can't. That's adult. It's not like a Dalish Inquisitor revealed she was a serial killer or anything. All she has to do is not immediately fall in line with Sera's ideas about what happened at the Temple of Mythal, which is that they were all demon-worshippers and liars (remember these are the people you could have fought alongside and seen die fighting your enemies while you were taking the easier, safer path through the Temple that they showed you). She doesn't even have to express a counter opinion, she just has to express the possibility that a counter opinion might exist and Sera's immediate reaction to that is, "I knew I shouldn't have started to like you," which is a very manipulative thing to say. It isn't an opening to a conversation, it isn't an invitation to work this out the way people generally would in a healthy relationship. it's a warning designed to attack the person's emotional connection to you in order to make the person on the other end of the conversation drop everything and backpedal. Sera doesn't appear to have an interest in working things out, or in dealing with bumps in a relationship. She'll just threaten or shout them under the rug if they dare show themselves rather than deal, which sets up a pretty bad environment for anyone wanting an actual relationship with her, romantic or otherwise. It would make for an interesting character, sure, except it's never acknowledged. There's no way for an Inquisitor to sit down with her and go, "Okay, this makes me uncomfortable, and we need to figure it out." Probably because, inferring from other interactions, Sera wouldn't tolerate that. (But not having even the option isn't Sera's fault. That's a writing one. Or a game limitations one. Not sure yet.)
 
Maybe this scene wouldn't have been so harsh if, as I said previously, it wasn't repeated behavior. This is how she acts over and over, with just about everyone. She might have her reasons for it--she's definitely at least very insecure--but that doesn't excuse that it's still a pretty awful way to treat someone. Having reasons doesn't give you free reign to be horrible to the people you apparently care about. 
 
And that sounds harsh, I guess? It probably is, but that scene was one of Sera's most upsetting for me, because I really do think Sera would have been an amazing character, but the way it's handled is just really uncomfortable. At least, it is for me. 
 
I was talking more about Paragon of her Kind (so, not Branka, but the events around Branka like that entire thing with her house and Helmi) and him writing Marjolaine, yeah. Which. Villianous and dark characters being villianous and dark isn't a problem, I didn't have a problem with them before this, but with the inclusion of Sera there seems to be a definite pattern in the way he seems to think women in non-straight relationships treat each other and other people and that does make me 'ehhhhh' a little. 
 
(And I know some people like her, and I know not everyone sees her relationship as having issues. I'm not saying those people are wrong. It's a game, interpret the relationship in any way that makes you happiest if you can. This is my interpretation. Really, my original post was more...venting, I guess, than an actual structured argument, because I was surrounded by incredibly emotionally abusive--emotional abuse born out of insecurity and fear, no less--for years and every other conversation with Sera tended to involve a line that could have come right out of one of their mouths. So I can't really separate it. She reads as emotionally abusive to me. Regarding your dig about how I must not like women with agency in regards to that particular scene (under the assumption you were talking to me considering it was in regards to my post): It didn't irritate me. It upset me. Because memories.)

I suppose it could have been worse. She could have said, if you love me at all, you will father this old god baby with me. Or maybe get another Warden to do.