84 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

Considering the number of gays in this vaguely medieval style of fantasy setting, as well as all of the manly-women and the the codex entries I would be surprised if there weren't a few bigoted comments from some characters.

[Lebanese Dude]

Considering the number of gays in this vaguely medieval style of fantasy setting, as well as all of the manly-women and the the codex entries I would be surprised if there weren't a few bigoted comments from some characters.

 

[Travie]

Yeah, but they only exist as strawmen for the game to knock down and crap on, like Mr. Moustache's dad.

 

Which is fine, it's their game. They can push any agenda they want as long as it doesn't hurt the experience for their players. 

[Lebanese Dude]

Yeah, but they only exist as strawmen for the game to knock down and crap on, like Mr. Moustache's dad.

 

Which is fine, it's their game. They can push any agenda they want as long as it doesn't hurt the experience for their players. 

So by your logic, depictions of rape, murder, and executions are pro-rape, pro-murder, pro-death penalty agendas.

 

Oh it's just the things that are icky to you right?

[tuchaka]

These threads never end well

[Doctor Mukora]

I don't see how you can have a homophobic character that isn't a strawman.

 

Like... this isn't an actual matter of opinion. You're either not homophobic, or you're an *******.

[Lebanese Dude]

I don't see how you can have a homophobic character that isn't a strawman.

 

Like... this isn't an actual matter of opinion. You're either not homophobic, or you're an *******.

 

No you could be uneducated. mis-educated, or simply misguided.

That's not really a complement to your character either though.

[mickey111]

I don't see how you can have a homophobic character that isn't a strawman.

 

Like... this isn't an actual matter of opinion. You're either not homophobic, or you're an *******.

 

well, sometimes in life good things happen to mean people. Ignoring this reality for the sake of pushing an agenda makes narratives less real.

[Lebanese Dude]

well, sometimes in life good things happen to mean people. Ignoring this reality for the sake of pushing an agenda makes narratives less real.

 

Define "agenda".

 

A lot of **** happens in this game. Every event can be considered an agenda. Who's to decide what is being pushed?

[mickey111]

well bioware have certain ideas on what kind of sexual preferences are socially acceptable, and making characters who go against biowares ideas for the sole purpose of been beaten bown both verbally and physically and never have anything go their way. It's about sending a message.

[Lebanese Dude]

well bioware have certain ideas on what kind of sexual preferences are socially acceptable, and making characters who go against biowares ideas for the sole purpose of been beaten bown both verbally and physically and never have anything go their way. It's about sending a message.

 

Well you using the term "sexual preference" already hints at a bias you have against LGBT issues. In that case, it's normal to consider BioWare's positive depictions of homosexuality as an agenda since it goes against your ideals.

 

It doesn't make it an agenda.

 

Depicting racism, homophobia, and misogyny is acceptable as long as they abide by certain limits.

 

Games still have to follow real-life cultural norms and in BioWare's case, pioneer them.

Do you honestly think Bioware's lack of depictions of slave trading is not an ingrained "agenda" against real-life slave trading? It is.

 

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your own beliefs. No. You should.

[Travie]

So by your logic, depictions of rape, murder, and executions are pro-rape, pro-murder, pro-death penalty agendas.

 

Oh it's just the things that are icky to you right?

 

I'm gay. You were saying? 

[Lebanese Dude]

I'm gay. You were saying? 

 

You're gay and you want more depictions of justified homophobia?

 

Come to Lebanon. You'll love it here.

[mickey111]

Well you using the term "sexual preference" already hints at a bias you have against LGBT issues. In that case, it's normal to consider BioWare's positive depictions of homosexuality as an agenda since it goes against your ideals.

 

It doesn't make it an agenda.

 

 

 

No, try again.

 

 

Depicting racism, homophobia, and misogyny is acceptable as long as they abide by certain limits.

 

Games still have to follow real-life cultural norms and in BioWare's case, pioneer them.

 

 

Well, looking at Tarantino, game of thrones and back at inquisition, the act of depicting  these things is not exactly a high wire act with an angry mob of Lebanese dudes holding pitchforks for a safety net. I can almost picture the focus group testing for inquisition in my head.

 

You get one more.

 

 

 

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your own beliefs. No. You should.

 

...and I've already decided that further conversation with you is pointless. Took you two replies. Well done.

[Travie]

You're gay and you want more depictions of justified homophobia?

 

Come to Lebanon. You'll love it here.

 

I never said I did? You're pushing at an open door and you don't even realize it, and you're kind of embarrassing yourself. 

[daveliam]

I haven't seen any outwardly homophobic characters, which would make sense for the setting.

 

Dorian story spoilers

Spoiler

Dorian's father is definitely not in favor of his son living as a happily gay man.  But I think it certainly has less to do with 'gays are icky and gross' and more to do with 'you need to tow the line here and have a wife and kids and if you won't do that, I'll make you do it for the good of the family'.  Don't get me wrong.  Conversion therapy is terrible and awful and definitely homophobic in nature.  I'm just clarifying that I think that his father is homophobic for reasons other than 'eww, teh gayz'. 

 

And this all makes sense because, really, the only other homophobic character that we've ever seen is Gamlen, right?  And he was pretty much a despicable ****** in every aspect.  So it's not like there is a lore-based reason for homophobia. 

[Lebanese Dude]

No, try again.

 

 

Well, looking at Tarantino, game of thrones and back at inquisition, the act of depicting  these things is not exactly a high wire act with an angry mob of Lebanese dudes holding pitchforks for a safety net. I can almost picture the focus group testing for inquisition in my head.

 

You get one more.

 

 

 

...and I've already decided that further conversation with you is pointless. Took you two replies. Well done.

 

Then use the correct term: sexual orientation. Preference implies natural choice, which isn't the case.

 

Depictions of non-accepted values is definitely allowed in storytelling. The entire point of it is to show us a world different than our own.

You use novels to illustrate your point though, and those allow a greater deal of discussion regarding the subject. Movies are inherently non-interactive so what you see is what you get.

 

Games have much shorter literature. Including slave trading as a player action and not discussing it within the setting is just ... out of place.

[Lebanese Dude]

I never said I did? You're pushing at an open door and you don't even realize it, and you're kind of embarrassing yourself. 

 

So how about you post proper clarificatation when challenged, irrespective of who's right or wrong? Instead you went on the defensive.

 

If you didn't want to reply then don't.

[Travie]

So how about you post proper clarificatation when challenged? Instead you went on the defensive.

 

If you didn't want to reply then don't.

 

Nothing I said implied I didn't want a conversation, you just jumped at one word and assumed something silly. Stop seeing homophobes around every corner and you might talk to someone about an issue like this without making them quit, like that other guy did. 

[Lebanese Dude]

Nothing I said implied I didn't want a conversation, you just jumped at one word and assumed something silly. Stop seeing homophobes around every corner and you might talk to someone about an issue like this without making them quit, like that other guy did. 

This is the internet. Intentions can't be conveyed through a few words.

 

Anyone who calls BioWare's inclusivity as a sort of pushed agenda can be misconstrued as a homophobe. The evidence is apparent.

 

Those that don't mind it just ignore it completely.

Sorry if you got blown up in the crosshairs. I have a zero tolerance policy for this sort of thing.

[Ianamus]

Spoiler

I thought Dorian's dad only wanted to apologise for what he'd done before and speak to Dorian again.

[Ianamus]

Spoiler

 

Oops! I didn't realize this was the no-spoiler Scuttlebut. I've put it in spoiler tags.

[panda_express12]

Only one I can think of. Honestly who cares? Maybe in Thedas homosexuality isn't a sin like it is in most religions of our world.

[Lebanese Dude]

Only one I can think of. Honestly who cares? Maybe in Thedas homosexuality isn't a sin like it is in most religions of our world.

 

It's not.

 

Homophobia in Thedas is less about religious sin and more about gender binaries and reproduction (inheritance).

[mickey111]

Only one I can think of. Honestly who cares? Maybe in Thedas homosexuality isn't a sin like it is in most religions of our world.

 

they're basically ripping off the catholic churches religion... except the bit about homosexuality. It's okay to ignore bits bioware doesn't like, but it's difficult to imagine that the thedas religion never had a history of hating on homosexuality considering the catholic influences.