111 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

"Disgusted noise"

 

She'll be a warrior Divine 

[Xilizhra]

The Warden will die of the calling soon enough I believe, so I figured that Leliana would have some time to spend with the Warden before the end, but she must make her own place in the world even after the love of her life fades, and what better way is there than to become the Divine and change the world...?

Actually, the Warden is working on ways to avoid the Calling.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

The Warden will die of the calling soon enough I believe, so I figured that Leliana would have some time to spend with the Warden before the end, but she must make her own place in the world even after the love of her life fades, and what better way is there than to become the Divine and change the world...?

Well, unless they successfully cure it that is.

[Foune]

Actually, the Warden is working on ways to avoid the Calling.

I thought the false calling created by Corypheus.

[Milan92]

She'll be a warrior Divine 

 

I think Varric should write a book about her and the inquisitor.

 

It shall be named: "Victoria's secret".

[AresKeith]

I think Varric should write a book about her and the inquisitor.

 

It shall be named: "Victoria's secret".

 

 

Now there really needs to be DLC for Cassandra as the Divine with the romance

[azarhal]

She'll be a warrior Divine 

 

DA4: Exalted Marches

[Dark Helmet]

Leliana started talking to me about how she thinks she should be Divine. Shot that down fast.

 

Viv for Divine it is!

[AresKeith]

DA4: Exalted Marches

 

Well if DA4 has the Qunari Invasion then it wouldn't be too far off

[TheChosenOne]

Leliana for Divine. Equality and Mage Freedom FTW. Viv? shot that from the sky the moment I learn about that. Cass? Well I'm romanced her and I didn't want my Mage to break up with her,so ya.......... no      

[Aewulf]

Did Leliana scare anyone else? She was all "I will make them see" and all I could think about was the Thirty Years War.

 

The choice for Divine really isn't a choice.   Vivienne is a classical conservative (traditionalist & power-oriented) and Leiliana is a classical radical (revolutionary & romantic), but both shared an underlying belief in that the ends justifies the means.  Leiliana conceals it better because of her profession (spymaster), but the quote above make everything abundantly clear.  She murdered an opponent's agent (who really posed no threat to her) rather than release her.  

 

Cassandra is different.  She struggles with her views and shows capacity for change.  She may lack the subtlety of the other two, but she would actually strive for a golden mean.  (And I don't recall the inclusion of other races in chantry being a topic of discussion with her).  

[Kieran G.]

I called it a long time ago  i said i wanted cass as divine and i got it!

[Former_Fiend]

I thought the false calling created by Corypheus.

 

The Warden is apparently working for a cure for the Calling in general. Whether the intention is to remove the blight entirely from the wardens, ala' Fiona, or stave off it's affects in a less...grisly way than Avernus, that remains to be seen. They're probably exploring their options.

[Storvacker]

The choice for Divine really isn't a choice.   Vivienne is a classical conservative (traditionalist & power-oriented) and Leiliana is a classical radical (revolutionary & romantic), but both shared an underlying belief in that the ends justifies the means.  Leiliana conceals it better because of her profession (spymaster), but the quote above make everything abundantly clear.  She murdered an opponent's agent (who really posed no threat to her) rather than release her.  

 

Cassandra is different.  She struggles with her views and shows capacity for change.  She may lack the subtlety of the other two, but she would actually strive for a golden mean.  (And I don't recall the inclusion of other races in chantry being a topic of discussion with her).  

In your game she murdered her, in others she may not have.

 

However the epilogue makes it very clear that Cassandra has trouble keeping her reforms in place because she lacks that ends-justifies-the-mends mentality. Leliana is a radical but she is willing to do what it takes to quell the threats against her.

 

Also, I believe that Vivienne actually does some good as divine. She may not be as reform or restructure-based as Leliana and Cassandra, but she is the first mage divine and knows how to keep mages' powers in check in a way that is a bit more humane.

[Sports72Xtrm]

In your game she murdered her, in others she may not have.

 

However the epilogue makes it very clear that Cassandra has trouble keeping her reforms in place because she lacks that ends-justifies-the-mends mentality. Leliana is a radical but she is willing to do what it takes to quell the threats against her.

 

Also, I believe that Vivienne actually does some good as divine. She may not be as reform or restructure-based as Leliana and Cassandra, but she is the first mage divine and knows how to keep mages' powers in check in a way that is a bit more humane.

About Vivienne.... She's a mage who lords herself above everyone else, has a title which many revere as holy, holds the templars and mages on a leash which she uses as a bludgeon on any adversary who opposes her or her views. May I be sarcastic for a moment in say it's amusing that in the South they think that's  a divine when in the north it's description could aptly describe a magister? IMO, humane isn't what I'd describe Vivienne.

 

As for Cassandra, I'd consider her the naive one. Thinking that the status quo with a little improvement (which would most likely be reverted in a couple of years) would just solve the discord. The mages fighting a civil war again may be evident to that point. She reminds me of that one Archon who tried to ban slavery.

 

Leliana for me seems like the perfect divine. For one, she has the temperament and the skills to elicit change. She never argues that mages shouldn't be checked, only not oppressed. So the mages aren't being bludgeon to submission, what's the harm? The Inquisition, Ferelden, Orlais, the Seekers of Truth should you encourage Cassandra to reform them all act as a check for magical corruption. Even the mages' themselves don't want another Tevinter especially if you recruit the mages, they will learn just how exploitative their machinations will be. Thedas could be so much more free and just if only good people stand together to fight the tide that oppresses them.

[Cypher0020]

I just beat the game, I got Viv, since I chose neither Cass or Leliana, it was.... interesting

 

My qunari is gonna pick Cass, Leliana's view gave me the shivers 

[Yermogi]

The Warden will die of the calling soon enough I believe, so I figured that Leliana would have some time to spend with the Warden before the end, but she must make her own place in the world even after the love of her life fades, and what better way is there than to become the Divine and change the world...?

Not quite true. The Calling will inevitably come, but not for many more years. The Taint shortens a Warden's lifespan, but they still live 30 years, give or take. A part of it also depends on the Waden's age when they Join as well; the younger the age, the longer they'll live. So let's assume the Warden was in his or her early to mid 20's. Maybe late teens if we really want to push it. If they did the Joining at 20, they'll live until about 50 presuming they don't die of other reasons before then.

Inquisition takes place 10 years after Origins, so the Warden still has 20 years or so to go. Also, if the Warden took Alexius's elixir, they may last even longer. And if they remove the curse of the Taint, well then...

[thesuperdarkone2]

Not quite true. The Calling will inevitably come, but not for many more years. The Taint shortens a Warden's lifespan, but they still live 30 years, give or take. A part of it also depends on the Waden's age when they Join as well; the younger the age, the longer they'll live. So let's assume the Warden was in his or her early to mid 20's. Maybe late teens if we really want to push it. If they did the Joining at 20, they'll live until about 50 presuming they don't die of other reasons before then.

Inquisition takes place 10 years after Origins, so the Warden still has 20 years or so to go. Also, if the Warden took Alexius's elixir, they may last even longer. And if they remove the curse of the Taint, well then...

Actually Gaider confirmed that the 30 years thing is only a best case scenario, not a given. The amount of time a Warden lives depends on how much contact with darkspawn they have and whether they were created during a blight, both of which redue the amount of time the warden lives. In other words, the Warden may not live 30 years.

[Yermogi]

Actually Gaider confirmed that the 30 years thing is only a best case scenario, not a given. The amount of time a Warden lives depends on how much contact with darkspawn they have and whether they were created during a blight, both of which redue the amount of time the warden lives. In other words, the Warden may not live 30 years.

Well, isn't that just fine and dandy? Here I was imagining my Warden and Zev semi-retiring in their early 40's to go live in a beachside villa before the inevitable, enjoying exotic alcoholic beverages and sexy-times. Thanks for ruining their early retirement, Mr. Gaider. Thanks.

[Xilizhra]

Don't worry, the Hero of Ferelden can just copy Avernus' mojo.

[SpookyDjinn]

Personally I think Cassandra is best suited for the position of Divine, and so I supported her. She's tough but also fair, and not as close minded as I expected someone like her to be.

 

Leliana on the other hand comes across as being bitter, hateful and downright unlikable to the point where I wish my Elf could zap her with lightening. So to make someone like her The Divine seems......wrong.

[Linkenski]

People were saying that Cass becoming the new divine ends the relationship, but IDK to be honest. At the end of the game if she becomes the divine and you romanced her, they give you 2-3 dialogue options in response, one of which breaks the romance (the broken heart symbol) the other which I can't recall at the moment but doesn't explicitly say it ends. 

 

It wasn't until recently that I noticed a line she says at the end of the game: "I will always stand by your side", stays the same regardless of whether she becomes divine or not. (If you didn't choose the break romance option at that point. I didn't choose it on my first playthrough in which i romanced her and she became divine) It is the same line she says in the first romance scene, "They will say one of two things about me - that I stood at the inquisitors side his protector and his lover.." 

 

As for the epilogue scene in your skyhold room, if she becomes the divine she mentions how you will be pulled away by the nobles and she will be taken away for coronation. Suggesting she wants to enjoy the moment while she still can. 

 

If she doesn't become divine, she mentions how you will be pulled away by nobles and that she wants to enjoy the moment while she still can.

 

Essentially the same scene, minus the divine part. This was what Leliana alluded to when she said many nobles will want to meet the inquisitor. It's safe to say the romance doesn't end unless you specifically end it when she becomes the divine.

I think the dialogue choice towards the end means that, like with Leliana and the warden, if Cassandra was to have some new role in the next dragon age game as the divine, she'd have dialogue about your inquisitor and how she longs for him after having left Skyhold.

[JeosDinas]

This playthrough was mostly the same (outside of getting that damn Dorian quest glitch) but I ended up with Leliana with a little bit of prodding. I was hesitant at first. I, by all practical thoughts, find Cassandra the best choice available but I can't deny the endgame state I got was...well, sort of a well earned reprieve for Thedas.

 

There's a College of Enchanters instead of the Circle, which I'm absolutely for. Leliana's more controversial because of how progressive she is but even going into things with her hardened I didn't get the stabby stabby version but a very diplomatic Divine who talked to and listened to dissenters, winning them over with charisma and charm. The only downside is whatever distance this puts between her and the Warden. 

[Aewulf]

About Vivienne.... She's a mage who lords herself above everyone else, has a title which many revere as holy, holds the templars and mages on a leash which she uses as a bludgeon on any adversary who opposes her or her views. May I be sarcastic for a moment in say it's amusing that in the South they think that's  a divine when in the north it's description could aptly describe a magister? IMO, humane isn't what I'd describe Vivienne.

 

As for Cassandra, I'd consider her the naive one. Thinking that the status quo with a little improvement (which would most likely be reverted in a couple of years) would just solve the discord. The mages fighting a civil war again may be evident to that point. She reminds me of that one Archon who tried to ban slavery.

 

Leliana for me seems like the perfect divine. She never argues that mages shouldn't be checked, only not oppressed. So the mages aren't being bludgeon to submission, what's the harm? The Inquisition, Ferelden, Orlais, the Seekers of Truth should you encourage Cassandra to reform them all act as a check for magical corruption. Even the mages' themselves don't want another Tevinter especially if you recruit the mages, they will learn just how exploitative their machinations will be. Thedas could be so much more free and just if only good people stand together to fight the tide that oppresses them.

 

 

I think that you make some good points, but I also feel that the consequences aren't really thought through in the epilogue.  The game's story allows the Inquisitor to overcome immense political problems on account of the depth of the crisis and sheer force of character/power.  The other characters won't work such miracles.  In my game, Leiliana became ruthless (on no urging on my own) while Cassandra showed great capacity for change. To be sure,  Leiliana would politically manage the mage problem with greater deftness, but she wouldn't really solve anything.  All the lingering problems with magic use, blood magic, and distrust of mages would persist.  The game clearly implies that some paradigm shift on magic (at least spirits) is in the works:  the history of the seekers, Cole, and most importantly Solas.   These are issues for a sequel. The Divine will not solve these issues, but at least the retention of a Seeker order would act as a safety valve.  Given all these considerations, I consider Cassandra a better choice because the magnitude of her potential errors pail in comparison to what Vivienne or Leliana (at least in my campaign) might produce.  If Leiliana were an idealistic pragmatist, then I would be less concerned.  

 

Still, Mother Giselle is a better choice than all three.  She has political sense, humility, and true understanding of the validity of other faiths.  If anything, I think Dragon Age hasn't gone far enough in spelling out the dangers of unbridled monotheism wedded to intolerance  It has done a really good job with the practical importance of faith and the philosophical issues, but the tragedies of religious fanaticism are buried in lore volumes and we wind up thinking about prejudice against magic.  We have the easier battle; we fight real demons, evil mages, and the occasional darkspawn.  

 

Still, I like that all these issues are raised.  The Maker (God) is a mystery and the real content is what humans make of the divine. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

Personally I think Cassandra is best suited for the position of Divine, and so I supported her. She's tough but also fair, and not as close minded as I expected someone like her to be.

 

Leliana on the other hand comes across as being bitter, hateful and downright unlikable to the point where I wish my Elf could zap her with lightening. So to make someone like her The Divine seems......wrong.

 

You must have had a hardened Leliana then. Softened Leliana is the best divine choice. She unifies everyone peacefully.