Leliana on the other hand comes across as being bitter, hateful and downright unlikable to the point where I wish my Elf could zap her with lightening. So to make someone like her The Divine seems......wrong.
Only if you screw up her personal quest. Which, I confess, is stupidly easy to do.
If Leiliana were an idealistic pragmatist, then I would be less concerned.
She is, if you do it properly.
You must have had a hardened Leliana then. Softened Leliana is the best divine choice. She unifies everyone peacefully.
Yes I think you're right. I checked the Keep and it seems I choose 'Marjolaine was killed' so that's most likely why she's so......horried.
Yes I think you're right. I checked the Keep and it seems I choose 'Marjolaine was killed' so that's most likely why she's so......horried.
No, it's not that. You first have to tell her to let Butler live (keep talking to her in Haven until that dialogue arrives), then say she made the right choice by pulling her scouts back from Haven after its fall.
You must have had a hardened Leliana then. Softened Leliana is the best divine choice. She unifies everyone peacefully.
And the nice thing is that you can, for lack of a better term, soften her back if you are cautious in dealings with her. I hardened her in Origins, had that in my Keep state, and still ended up with the "good" version.
Yes I think you're right. I checked the Keep and it seems I choose 'Marjolaine was killed' so that's most likely why she's so......horried.
I'm not certain how much that factors, but if you tell her to kill the traitor in haven she becomes hardened at the end of the game. Spare him, and she has the opportunity to become softened.
I think that you make some good points, but I also feel that the consequences aren't really thought through in the epilogue. The game's story allows the Inquisitor to overcome immense political problems on account of the depth of the crisis and sheer force of character/power. The other characters won't work such miracles. In my game, Leiliana became ruthless (on no urging on my own) while Cassandra showed great capacity for change. To be sure, Leiliana would politically manage the mage problem with greater deftness, but she wouldn't really solve anything. All the lingering problems with magic use, blood magic, and distrust of mages would persist. The game clearly implies that some paradigm shift on magic (at least spirits) is in the works: the history of the seekers, Cole, and most importantly Solas. These are issues for a sequel. The Divine will not solve these issues, but at least the retention of a Seeker order would act as a safety valve. Given all these considerations, I consider Cassandra a better choice because the magnitude of her potential errors pail in comparison to what Vivienne or Leliana (at least in my campaign) might produce. If Leiliana were an idealistic pragmatist, then I would be less concerned.
Still, Mother Giselle is a better choice than all three. She has political sense, humility, and true understanding of the validity of other faiths. If anything, I think Dragon Age hasn't gone far enough in spelling out the dangers of unbridled monotheism wedded to intolerance It has done a really good job with the practical importance of faith and the philosophical issues, but the tragedies of religious fanaticism are buried in lore volumes and we wind up thinking about prejudice against magic. We have the easier battle; we fight real demons, evil mages, and the occasional darkspawn.
Still, I like that all these issues are raised. The Maker (God) is a mystery and the real content is what humans make of the divine.
Why do you say that that Leliana's reforms would ultimately fail but think that cassandra's reforms would somehow suceed with nothing but a gut instinct backing your claims? And Cassandra still does intend to remake the Seeker Order if your inquisitor encouraged her to even if she isn't the divine. Even Leliana by doing her personal quest can change into a more pacifistic divine, just that her stance on giving the mages freedom remains the same. The problems with blood magic and abuse of magic would be handled by the Inquisition, not the Divine. But Leliana promoting equality and freedom seems to encourage a more civilized sentiment befitting of the Maker. And if you want to talk about divine providence. the spirit who saves the Inquisitor is the same voice Leliana hears in her head. If that's not divine providence, I don't know what is.
As for Sister Giselle, yes she's a good person but she offers no insight or stances on how to solve the problems of magic anymore than elthina. All she says is the obvious: the chantry has a problem, magic isn't necessarily evil but we don't know where the line is drawn between protection and persecution, and the chantry should help people. She helps but only in the simplest ways.
No, it's not that. You first have to tell her to let Butler live (keep talking to her in Haven until that dialogue arrives), then say she made the right choice by pulling her scouts back from Haven after its fall.
Ah I see. I'll have to remember this for my next play through. Thank you 
I agree that Leliana is the best choice for Devine. If shes unhardened she improves the relations between mages and mundanes and peacefully resolves the conflict between sects that dissent against her changes. She also allows non-humans into the chantry which is a massive step in the right direction in regards to the tenets of the chant of light; one of the core beliefs of the chantry itself. I'm glad I got unhardened Leliana as my Devine Victoria, her reign is the best case scenario ending for a better Thedas.
Ah I see. I'll have to remember this for my next play through. Thank you
My pleasure.
Can we change our choice before we beat the main story? I did not know that Cassandra was the only option, I vouched for her but after seeing other ppl endings I want lineina instead
Can we change our choice before we beat the main story? I did not know that Cassandra was the only option, I vouched for her but after seeing other ppl endings I want lineina instead
You can get Cassandra, Leliana, or Vivienne. It's based off of your choices throughout the game. Specifically your expressed views on the chantry. The link in my sig has more information, particularly if you want to get Leliana.
Oh, damn. So I'll need to make sure to hate the Chantry at every opportunity, then?
Spoiler
Until reading this thread, I didn't even know she was a possible candidate. But then again, my Elf mage doesn't really bother with her much because she views her as a bit of a hypocrite.
Spoiler
Your views must have been closer to neutral than favoring great change in either direction regarding the chantry. Its affected largely by your own input through dialogue expressed at certain points in the game towards certain people about how you/they feel or should feel about the chantry itself.
Guest_Cyaoi_*
Can we not have a Divine? Or a Chantry period? :/
Spoiler
I'm really mildly worried about this. I've slowly become "friends" with her by being diplomatic and got a mission to support her as Divine, (which I won't take) but nothing like that for Leliana. Have I not been fanatically anti-clerical enough? I've been polite to Cassandra and Vivienne, but I've never agreed with either and Vivienne hated me for a while. I'm hoping Leliana will have the talk with me about becoming Divine after my next mission, because I don't want either Cass or Viv. Not that it really affects anything but the epilogue of a character I likely won't continue with because I don't know how to metagame properly yet.
I'm going to ask this here if that's okay with every one, if i do say to Cassandra do you want to be the divine, will she leave my party after she becomes the divine
Your views must have been closer to neutral than favoring great change in either direction regarding the chantry. Its affected largely by your own input through dialogue expressed at certain points in the game towards certain people about how you/they feel or should feel about the chantry itself.
Leliana became the Divine in my play, and I have no idea how. I never did the operation for Vivianne as the Divine, so I understand that. However, I openly told Leliana that I would not support her, and I felt like I made more or less positive remarks about it to Cassandra.
So I'm stumped on that front.
I was leaning toward Cassandra, but thought maybe Inquisition shouldn't meddle in that part of politics.
I really did not feel comfortable in turning the Inquisition the meddler of all things especially on a topic that involved something outside of stopping the big bad guy.
So I didn't really choose anyone, but Leliana got picked (I think she's a default option).
Plus when that cleric said one of them will have to leave for good, I thought that meant leave my party for good during 3rd act, so I went stayed neutral. I need my tank and Cassandra is a good tank.
So how did I end up with Vivienne as Divine?
Same happened to me, and it was surprising. I supported Cassandra, and never offered Viv any support. Frankly if given any opportunity at all during the game, I would have spoken out against it. But there was no such opportunity. The game was basically like "oh, by the way, Viv is randomly Divine. And apparently you supported her."
So yeah, I just get to pretend that didn't actually happen. Because I would have heard about Viv scheming to be Divine, and I would have stomped that out.
Only if you screw up her personal quest. Which, I confess, is stupidly easy to do.
She is, if you do it properly.
I disagree, actually. While I prefer her unhardened, as divine she sees much more success hardened.
It would have been cool if the female inquisitor could have became divine.
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