46 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexoduen]

I really don't understand the complaints. They've assigned stats that do damage for each class. So.whether you could choose seperate stats or not you'd still pick those. You'd pick Dex over str because dex increases damage with daggers. All they did was simplify it so.instead of str.giving .5 and Dex giving .5 dex gives 1. You would recieve no benefit being able to assaign your own stats. You.can still.choose between dex and cunning with your skill choices. You can still wear +10 attribute necklaces and +health belts to boost your characters health. There is options, and giving.people.more options would just end up with people.stacking. the best two stats anyways

If you want a system like nwn or skyrim you're in the wrong series. Da has never been open like that.

 

The character progression system was a lot more open in Origins and DA2. Personally, I do not like the "on-rails" character I am now forced to play. As I see it the benefit of letting us assign attribute points, if we so choose at level-up, is not necessarily to build the 'best' character, but to let us build the character we want.

 

I'll quote a user who got it right from the below thread:

http://forum.bioware...er-how-i-want/:

 

"Basically the main reason to have attribute points is to play the character how you want to play them.   Obivously, as we all know, Strength, Cunning and Dex are meaningless to mages.  Similarly Magic is useless to anyone else. 

 

However, if you want to make a more tanky mage you can sacrifice some points in magic for constitution.  The system says mages should have low hit points so we won't do that, we put it magic because it is more useful there.

 

But the thing is that it's MY mage.  If I want to put my mage in heavy armor and high hit points that is my decision to make.  I should not be denied that option just because the developer thinks that is not the way mages should be.

 

Now all of a sudden I am playing the developer's mage.  That is how they want to play their mage, which is fine.  But why should I be forced to play my mage the way they want it to be done?  If I want my mage in heavy armor and high hit points that is my business, and that option should not be taken away because the developer thinks it is not appropriate.

 

This is about freedom of choice "

[MapleJar]

DAO was RPG to the max, and I loved it. DA2 was a little less RPG, but still acceptable. DAI is even less an RPG as to be, in my opinion, RPG-ish at best. In a true RPG, you should be able to design your character your way. Yes, most people would be a munchkin, and pump their primary stats, but there are those out there who would build hybrids. I enjoy playing hybrids, personally, and don't always pump the primary stats to the max. That is what the RPG experience should be like, in my opinion. Too many games out there are calling themselves RPG, but have little to do with how an RPG should be. Again, my opinion.

 

I don't think DAI is a bad game. I'm still playing it - mostly because I want to see where the story goes. It's not the game I expected or wanted it to be, and I don't think it's the game that Bioware led me to believe that it was. In a lot of ways, I don't think it deserves to be called "Dragon Age" anything as it plays and feels like a new IP more than it seems and feels like a DA game.

 

So yes, I think we should be able to allocate attribute points ourselves with each level we gain, and those points should go a long way to determining the capabilities of your character.

[Eckister]

aaaaaand another one saying the same tired line... look Setz - Ive already said that just because having attribute points would lead you to stacking them in your main stat is how this usually works out, it isnt the only way it has to work, neither is that an unwelcome feature... so you stack points in an attribute which makes your char stronger? whats bad about that? 0_o I SERIOUSLY dont get that logic...
 

MaxQuartiroli - so the solution would be to prohibit customization in every way? iiiiiinterestiiiing... thats kinda like a parent who prohibits their kids from playing because theyre loud, instead of teaching them how to be less loud or come to appreciate them having fun. because showing how big your balls are is sooooo much easier... and besides - comparing two games, especially if hey have fundamentally different rule sets, doesnt make sence! sure NWN was a LOT better in terms of customisation, that doesnt mean that taking customisation away from this game will solve anything... DA2 already had its share of fire because you couldnt pick anything besides a human, but at least you could build it the way YOU wanted to (with its stats and skill trees). why take that away now, when they have a chance to give back people what they loved about DA:O? I for one would welcome professions and attribute allocation warmly.

[Eckister]

Hexoduen - why cant I give your posts more likes? :-( 

 

P. S. thats a rhetorical question...

[Soul Of Men]

I so far have loved all the Dragon Age games. So far, the issue with stat allocation doesn't bother me. People have posted about this topic and many people simply overlook an aspect. The passives that you can select give flat stat ups. I play a mage and I dabble in quite a few skill trees to get a mage that can spam spells out, do some damage, but almost always has the mana and cooldown timers to always be casting.

I've gone down trees to give me more willpower so I can do just that. If I had the points to put where I wanted, I would do the same thing. Its not dumbing down, its not railing your character, its just giving you stats in a separate way. I like the way its done. It gives context for the stat increase not just "I earned a level from picking up herbs, that makes me smarter, 1 point in Intel". Its "I've reached a new level in casting lightning magic and I can apply that knowledge to other areas. +2 to Magic"

So while it is a change from the previous DA games, stat allocation is still there, just different. And I don't mind

[Eckister]

"stat allocation is still there" is about as accurate as saying "people live the same lives as they did in the 19th century"... sure, we still live, love, work and enjoy ourselves, when we have the time, but its entirely different from what it was.

[Soul Of Men]

Its not the way you want it. That is clear. But it is still there, you still can allocate attribute points. No need to be hostile/aggressive to people who don't agree with you. You posted this as a question of opinion for people to answer. I answered I like it and showed how its still there. Be a generous OP and be ok with people disagreeing with you

[Eckister]

Im disagreeing with your disagreeing... :-D "rebuking a point" is not necessarily the same as "attacking a person over a statement". sorry if I made you feel that way, I didnt mean for that. 

 

the thing however is, that not all classes have the same "perk" as mages. I have yet to see a passive attribute bonus for rogues, for example. though rogues do have a different bonus (0 aggro for attacks from flanking, for example), so stating that "passives" (as in generalizing passive skills for all classes) give attribute bonuses isnt all that accurate.

 

again - no attacks, just stating things from my perspective.

[Soul Of Men]

I don't know what the confusion is that we are having about attributes. There are attribute points associated with passives. Not talking about the augmented skill passive, but the other junk (lol).

To make sure I'm not just delusional I loaded up the game and took a look at the skills for Cass, Sera, Dorian and myself (another mage). Here are some examples of what I mean; Cassandra. Turn the Bolt: Damage Reduction (Ranged, Front) 50%  Constitution on Unlock +3. Sera. First Blood: Damage Bonus 15% Health Threshold 80% Dexterity on Unlock +3. Dorian. Gathering Storm: Cooldown Reduction 0.5 Seconds Willpower on Unlock +3. Inquisitor (mage). Pyromancer: Burning Duration Bonus 25% Fear Duration Bonus 25% Willpower on Unlock +3.

The attribute points are there, and they are essentially there on level up. Kinda sorta should you choose a passive.

In the DA:O system, at various levels you would gain attribute points but not every level. DAII you would get them every level (if memory serves right). DAI they give you a choice. Do you want a new skill, or +3 points to X stat.

I wont argue that you can build a tanky mage in DAI, because you cant. But I will argue that the attribute points are there, should you want them (within the limitations that your class has).

[Eckister]

but what if you want a different skill, and not the one which raises your attribute on the side? what then? 

 

what happens is, that you are forced down along a certain skill path, not being able to make a build you want, but to make a build someone else wants. and to top it all off there is the thing you already mentioned - you can only spend the points into attributes which are pre-set into the passives.

 

btw - thank you for explaining, I didnt exactly pay attention to the "+3 dexterity on unlock". nice thing, but to have attributes you can spend how you want would be much more to my liking (and that of several other players)

[Soul Of Men]

The reason I don't necessary mind the way its done here is mainly because of crafting. Take crafting out of the game and you end up very limited on attribute allocation.

I play on Nightmare (other difficulty's are too easy for me) so I often ran into badies that can 2-3 shot me. Naturally that's bad. So I took to crafting. Went to some areas (for potential spoiler reasons I wont say where) and bought schematics. Took a look at what resources add what stats and made sure I had what I wanted. So at one point I was lvl 16 with +21 constitution and 160 armor for my mage. I wasn't getting 2-3 shot, but still had to be careful.

So where other see a lack of being able to allocate individual skill points (legitimate grievance), I see the passive skills and crafting as a way to just as easily customize your characters with attributes.

So, to me the question is this; Is the lack of attribute point allocation per level made up for by custom armor with attributes and passive attributes? My answer is yes.

[MaxQuartiroli]

MaxQuartiroli - so the solution would be to prohibit customization in every way? iiiiiinterestiiiing... thats kinda like a parent who prohibits their kids from playing because theyre loud, instead of teaching them how to be less loud or come to appreciate them having fun. because showing how big your balls are is sooooo much easier... and besides - comparing two games, especially if hey have fundamentally different rule sets, doesnt make sence! sure NWN was a LOT better in terms of customisation, that doesnt mean that taking customisation away from this game will solve anything... DA2 already had its share of fire because you couldnt pick anything besides a human, but at least you could build it the way YOU wanted to (with its stats and skill trees). why take that away now, when they have a chance to give back people what they loved about DA:O? I for one would welcome professions and attribute allocation warmly.

 

I think you misunderstood my words. I never claimed that it's right or wrong. What I was saying is just that, at least for this aspect of the game, both in DA:O and DA2 I never got the impression to have many available options. In my opinion this part of characterization was already tainted from the beginning since they made the classes to evolve in allmost preset ways, at least if you are aiming for the ideal build for a character, like I always do.

So, in order to answer to your OP question I was just saying:

 

"No, for my style of playing, and considering how I have always played DA games, this thing does not bug me at all because to me increasing STR with attribute points or increasing STR by choosing a skill which give +3 STR on unlock won't make any difference: the result will still be the same and in the end I'll always have the character that I wanted."

Having say that, I agree with you when you claim that everyone should be able to play the character that they like, even a dumb character if they want or a character with a very wrong build just for the sake of it. But I thought that you weren't asking whether we find this system right or not, just if this system worked for us according to our own needs. So I answered for myself!

[DarthGizka]

so Ive noticed you dont get attribute points per level-up. while this has its own charm in terms of added difficulty and the need to personalize your gear, I dont think it makes sence...

In d20 games you didn't get many attribute points at level-up either; these allowed accentuating/focussing your character a bit but even there they paled in comparison to the stats effects of gear, spells and abilities. In Morrowind and DAO they handed out huge amounts of stats points but the effect of abilities and kit was at least as big.

[DarthGizka]

I really don't understand the complaints. They've assigned stats that do damage for each class. So.whether you could choose seperate stats or not you'd still pick those. You'd pick Dex over str because dex increases damage with daggers. All they did was simplify it so.instead of str.giving .5 and Dex giving .5 dex gives 1. You would recieve no benefit being able to assaign your own stats.

Bollocks. Even a fighter has to pick a balance between offence, defence and staying power (WIL/CON), and they have the easiest task balancing their needs. Things get even trickier for rogues. The only easy class in Origins was the mage: all points into Magic, unless you had special requirements for your build (Arcane Warrior, Shapeshifter, Heal/Buff Bot). In other games mages and magically enhanced warriors (Paladins) are probably the trickiest to balance.

[Eckister]

MaxQuartiroli - yeah, I should have named the thread differently. :-) my original aim was to see, how many people want this back or wether Im the sole fool. :-D and yeah, having them on passive skills does work somewhat, it just doesnt deliver the same ammount of "freedom" in building your character imho...

 

DarthGizka - yeah .... that question was covered already but Ill repeat - lets not compare games with such fundamentally different rule sets, unless you meant the fifth edition of DnD. and even in that case it doesnt really compare, as the rulesets for the Dragon Age franchise are not really DnD.

[AlanC9]

but what if you want a different skill, and not the one which raises your attribute on the side? what then? 
 

The skill you want doesn't have the attribute increase you want too? Then you have an interesting choice to make, I guess.

[AlanC9]

Bollocks. Even a fighter has to pick a balance between offence, defence and staying power (WIL/CON), and they have the easiest task balancing their needs. Things get even trickier for rogues. .

Of course, the talent unlocks handle a fair amount of the stat allocation for you. But yeah, you did have to think about stats a little with those classes in DA:O, which made up a bit for the talent trees being pretty shallow. DA2 improved on this, though.

[LadyPetra]

Nay in general but in dragon age 3 its needed, their entire system is based on borin trinity were they try to force you to run a sertain group format (theif/warrior /mage)

The whole game is designed on it and having less acces means easyer ballance.. I solve it a simple way.. I just download a cheat table and alter what i want.

[Eckister]

AlanC9 - thank you for your "constructive" opinion... oh and do put a bucket under this post and make sure its big enough to catch all the irony...

[DarthGizka]

Of course, the talent unlocks handle a fair amount of the stat allocation for you. But yeah, you did have to think about stats a little with those classes in DA:O, which made up a bit for the talent trees being pretty shallow. DA2 improved on this, though.

I guess that was precisely the point Eckister made: in DAI you may have some choice over stats allocation via kit (much more than elsewhere) but none at all for your character, you have to take whatever comes attached to your abilities. Behold my sword-and-shield warrior! She's exactly the same as everyone else's but she's crafted herself some mean kit!

 

Even something as straightforward as a sword-and-shield tank has plenty of different ways it could go. High defence but low HP - untouchable most of the time but brittle and vulnerable to magic. High strength, middlish defence, lowish HP - got to take out my enemies before they cause too much damage. Monstrously high HP - throw at me what you will but you won't succeed, my healer can match your pace and my DPSers will take you down pronto.

[Eckister]

DarthGizka - THANK you! couldnt have put it better to words myself. ^^

 

and theres another point - while you can pick only those skills which add a certain attribute, that would limit your leveling even further! so the means by which you can create YOUR character are not really present, since you are limited in a number of ways...

 

aaaaanyways - how can you point a thread out for forum admins? you know - to give this the attention of people who can actually DO anything about it...

[Eckister]

so I was thinking the other day - what if there was the attribute gain from passive skills and 3 points every 2-3 levels for you to allocate?