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Loving the diversity


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#26
Nathair Nimheil

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Wait, so it's hot or sunny because people are black?

No. The problem was in your assumption that people are light skinned by default but that "many generations of living in climate of roasting hot temperatures" made some people "black". That's bass ackwards (plus confused about sunlight vs temperature.)



#27
mikeymoonshine

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Anders and Kaiden becoming gay for no reason. Although I guess you could justify Anders by thinking of the circle as real life prison.

 

And don't give me that "well you don't really know" nonsense. The characters were clearly established and then they were changed rather than writing new and interesting characters.

 

I heard that some homosexual people also didn't like Steve because he was whiny and shallow, but I can't speak to that. I actually liked Steve because they made him good at his job.

 

Well Kaiden was originally written as bisexual but the SS romance was scrapped (can be salvaged with mods) and Anders wasn't romancable in Awakening. Call it nonsense if you wish but I see no reason why either of these characters cannot be bisexual. 

 

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. When did bioware artificially inject diversity on their games just to make sjw's on tumblr happy? I ask because I know that they put more SS romances in their games after KOTOR because their fans on their forums wanted that not because of SJW's on tumblr. 



#28
Majestic Jazz

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Who is SJW?

#29
Dapper Pomegranate

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so only dark skinned folk are diverse? oh yes i remember in our world diversity means not white.

lol

 

...There was a great article that used to be linked here that talked about it.

 

http://tay.kotaku.co...fant-1662330835

So on these forums when this topic is broached that article is going to become "baby's first easy-bake troll post" then? Good to know. 

 

At any rate, I agree with the OP. It's nice to see.


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#30
Nathair Nimheil

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Who is SJW?

It's a pejorative term, "Social Justice Warrior".



#31
mikeymoonshine

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Oh and, prison rape jokes are a brilliant way to derail a thread and get it locked. -_-  So if that wasn't your intention there I would advise you to be more careful, I'm not gonna rise to something like that but other might. 



#32
Vanth

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Yes, lots of diversity. Bioware seem to have pushed any discussion or confrontation with racism, sexism or sexuality discrimination out of their game altogether. 

 

A game that confronts these issues is not discriminatory by default. It is only discriminatory if it handles these issues poorly. If Bioware truly wanted to make a difference then they would instead explore such issues rather than just denying they exist. I would have thought a role-playing game would be the perfect place to do that. 


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#33
The Loyal Nub

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Yes, lots of diversity. Bioware seem to have pushed any discussion or confrontation with racism, sexism or sexuality discrimination out of their game altogether. 

 

A game that confronts these issues is not discriminatory by default. It is only discriminatory if it handles these issues poorly. If Bioware truly wanted to make a difference then they would instead explore such issues rather than just denying they exist. I would have thought a role-playing game would be the perfect place to do that. 

 

In a certain sense you're right on the money with this comment. However if BioWare had done what you suggest then this thread would have arguments about how that was contrived and existed only to push some agenda some supposed, mythical, Tumblr society had at the expense of BioWare's true fanbase (whatever that would be). So BioWare will never win with everyone nor is it likely everyone will be entirely pleased.

 

I thought the racism issue broached with the Elves in the older games could have been more fully fleshed out here. True, I am only 11 hours in and maybe it does appear but so far there are only the merest hints of it. 



#34
mikeymoonshine

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I honestly don't get the problem, this world is different and has different forms of discrimination that it focuses on. iI has always been that way and there is no reason why it shouldn't be that way. No it's not sexist to portray sexism but that doesn't mean every fantasy world needs to be a pit of misogyny. 



#35
Natureguy85

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No. The problem was in your assumption that people are light skinned by default but that "many generations of living in climate of roasting hot temperatures" made some people "black". That's bass ackwards (plus confused about sunlight vs temperature.)

I never assumed that. Nice try. I was joking because of the way you wrote the sentence.



#36
In Exile

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Yes, lots of diversity. Bioware seem to have pushed any discussion or confrontation with racism, sexism or sexuality discrimination out of their game altogether.

A game that confronts these issues is not discriminatory by default. It is only discriminatory if it handles these issues poorly. If Bioware truly wanted to make a difference then they would instead explore such issues rather than just denying they exist. I would have thought a role-playing game would be the perfect place to do that.


Games are really terrible mediums for exploring prejudice. They either isolate the character from it or they create an absurd juxtaposition between how they empower the protagonist and what the world is like.
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#37
Paul E Dangerously

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Anders and Kaiden becoming gay for no reason. Although I guess you could justify Anders by thinking of the circle as real life prison.

 

And don't give me that "well you don't really know" nonsense. The characters were clearly established and then they were changed rather than writing new and interesting characters.

 

I heard that some homosexual people also didn't like Steve because he was whiny and shallow, but I can't speak to that. I actually liked Steve because they made him good at his job.

 

You know the funniest thing about the Anders bit?

 

Turning down Anders results in the same number of rivalry points as making a mage Tranquil or making a deal with a demon. Think about that for a second. Add in the fact there are two approval options and the only "no" option is written and voice acted to be as nasty as possible..

 

Real subtle there.



#38
Meatbaggins

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I don't get why people associate Anders's behavior with homosexuality. You do realize he treats female Hawkes exactly the same way, right? He was just a messed up person, regardless of his sexuality.



#39
Natureguy85

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Well Kaiden was originally written as bisexual but the SS romance was scrapped (can be salvaged with mods) and Anders wasn't romancable in Awakening. Call it nonsense if you wish but I see no reason why either of these characters cannot be bisexual. 

 

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. When did bioware artificially inject diversity on their games just to make sjw's on tumblr happy? I ask because I know that they put more SS romances in their games after KOTOR because their fans on their forums wanted that not because of SJW's on tumblr. 

 

You're right that Kaidan was originally bisexual and that would have been fine, but as you said, that was scrapped. Anders was not only not romancable, he made several references to desiring women and none to desiring men. In DA2, he will claim that the other guy was his "first", as I recall.

 

As to your question, I was referring to these things so you're right that it a few instances doesn't constitute "a bunch of diversity".

 

 

Oh and, prison rape jokes are a brilliant way to derail a thread and get it locked. -_-  So if that wasn't your intention there I would advise you to be more careful, I'm not gonna rise to something like that but other might. 

 

Was this directed at me? Because I never said anything about rape and I was being serious. You inserted that yourself.



#40
Natureguy85

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You know the funniest thing about the Anders bit?

 

Turning down Anders results in the same number of rivalry points as making a mage Tranquil or making a deal with a demon. Think about that for a second. Add in the fact there are two approval options and the only "no" option is written and voice acted to be as nasty as possible..

 

Real subtle there.

 

Really? I turned him down and I don't recall it being nasty, but I honestly don't remember. Is it if you turn him down right after dealing with his friend who was made tranquil, or later?

 

I don't get why people associate Anders's behavior with homosexuality. You do realize he treats female Hawkes exactly the same way, right? He was just a messed up person, regardless of his sexuality.

 

What behavior? He is a romance option for male Hawke.



#41
Paul E Dangerously

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Really? I turned him down and I don't recall it being nasty, but I honestly don't remember. Is it if you turn him down right after dealing with his friend who was made tranquil, or later?

 

 

What behavior? He is a romance option for male Hawke.

 

Right after. Which is pretty much my main problem with the scene - not only is it badly written, but the timing is just terrible.

 

It may also be the only time a character slaps you with a Rivalry hit for something that doesn't relate to their beliefs or causes. DA2 was generally pretty good about avoiding that.



#42
Nathair Nimheil

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I never assumed that. Nice try.

Sorry, my mistake. I was tricked by the assumption being explicit in what you actually posted.



#43
mikeymoonshine

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You're right that Kaidan was originally bisexual and that would have been fine, but as you said, that was scrapped. Anders was not only not romancable, he made several references to desiring women and none to desiring men. In DA2, he will claim that the other guy was his "first", as I recall.

 

As to your question, I was referring to these things so you're right that it a few instances doesn't constitute "a bunch of diversity".

 

Bisexual people are just like anyone else, some are more open about it than others. Some are more interested in one gender than they are in another and some are just more comfortable approaching one gender than another. Neither of them ever said they were only attracted to women. I don't care how you personally feel about it you can disbelieve it all you like. That doesn't mean bioware is caving to people on tumblr by retconning previous decisions and characters though. 



#44
Peer of the Empire

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Whites are less than 10% of the world population, so I'm sure OP will enjoy the Third World



#45
Nathair Nimheil

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I'm sure OP will enjoy the Third World

I don't understand what that is intended to mean.

#46
Varus Praetor

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Agree with OP. It gives the game a more real and better feel. More immersive.

#47
legbamel

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Though it's off-topic, I always thought Anders was gay and just using a common term without intending it to be more gender-specific than "mankind". He's always been FabulAnders to me. If it wasn't relevant (as in he wasn't interested in any Warden) why would he specify?

On-topic, I'm quite happy to see the range of skin tones the new engine can handle being used. If you never tried to make a black Warden you may not realize how very, very bad the darker skin looked in DA:I and DA2. It's also nice to see matter-of-fact lore and minor NPCs of different sexualities without it being treated as a joke or a major deviance .

#48
Peer of the Empire

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I don't understand what that is intended to mean.

 

Why the low standard of living of course



#49
Nathair Nimheil

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Why the low standard of living of course

So... you're suggesting that because "White people" are, and always have been, the minority therefore Western nations will experience an economic decline? Or something like that? How do HAARP and the Reptilians fit into your thesis? Do you have a newsletter to which I might subscribe?



#50
Meatbaggins

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Why the low standard of living of course

 

Even if your comment made sense, how is it relevant?