80 réponses à ce sujet

[Peer of the Empire]

Even if your comment made sense, how is it relevant?

If OP desires such a society, they will help bring it about

[Meatbaggins]

If OP desires such a society, they will help bring it about

 

No one talked about "society". This is about a fantasy role-playing video game.

[Peer of the Empire]

So... you're suggesting that because "White people" are, and always have been, the minority therefore Western nations will experience an economic decline? Or something like that? How do HAARP and the Reptilians fit into your thesis? Do you have a newsletter to which I might subscribe?

Well yes, the Third World has been unable to achieve our standard of living.  Don't discount the experiences of Third Worlders

[Peer of the Empire]

No one talked about "society". This is about a fantasy role-playing video game.

 

Their society is made up of them in basements all acting alone without any thought or understanding of consequence in how the real world works.  That's fine, but keep it to themselves

[Meatbaggins]

I think someone got lost on their way to Stormfront.

[Nathair Nimheil]

No one talked about "society". This is about a fantasy role-playing video game.

Er, no. This thread is about how someone living in our society feels about the representation of a more equitable society in the game. Context matters. The OP was implicitly suggesting a desire for such a society. (And who can blame them?)

[iamthespark]

I agree with the OP, the diversity was pretty refreshing to see.  Also, the amount of women in stronger positions was a huge plus! Finally, I really liked how they handled the transgender character. 

[Nathair Nimheil]

Well yes, the Third World has been unable to achieve our standard of living.

And you think that's about "White people". OK then.

 

It's always helpful to see someone just whip their racism right out like that, makes it easier for the rest of us.

[Meatbaggins]

The OP was implicitly suggesting a desire for such a society. (And who can blame them?)

 

I'm not saying that's an unreasonable assumption. I'm saying that if the OP made this topic to debate real-world poltiics, they would have been EXplicit about it. Seems logical to me at least.

[Lebanese Dude]

You know the funniest thing about the Anders bit?

 

Turning down Anders results in the same number of rivalry points as making a mage Tranquil or making a deal with a demon. Think about that for a second. Add in the fact there are two approval options and the only "no" option is written and voice acted to be as nasty as possible..

 

Real subtle there.

 

Heaven forbid someone as emotionally wrecked as Anders crushes on your character. I know right? Only the player should be allowed to select their lover. That's how the real world works too amirite?

I also fail how to see that is funny. The Friendship/Rivalry score is an arbitrary number given to provide some meaning to the relationship between the player and the companions. 

Fyi, you can turn down Anders and say you have a strictly professional relationship and you won't lose any points. 

 

You're right that Kaidan was originally bisexual and that would have been fine, but as you said, that was scrapped. Anders was not only not romancable, he made several references to desiring women and none to desiring men. In DA2, he will claim that the other guy was his "first", as I recall.

 

As to your question, I was referring to these things so you're right that it a few instances doesn't constitute "a bunch of diversity".

Did Anders ever come out and say: I am not into men?

 

You realize bisexual people don't necessarily "favor" both genders equally right? It's simply a term used to indicate the area around the "midpoint" of the sexual orientation spectrum.

Perhaps Anders leans more onto women than men. Zevran certainly did.

[Risien]

Anders and Kaiden becoming gay for no reason. Although I guess you could justify Anders by thinking of the circle as real life prison.

 

Kaiden was never established as straight. If you disagree, feel free to provide proof he was.

 

 

Yes, lots of diversity. Bioware seem to have pushed any discussion or confrontation with racism, sexism or sexuality discrimination out of their game altogether. 

 

 

You apparently haven't done Dorian's side story.  It tackles homophobia head-on without flinching.

 

 

You know the funniest thing about the Anders bit?

 

Turning down Anders results in the same number of rivalry points as making a mage Tranquil or making a deal with a demon. Think about that for a second. Add in the fact there are two approval options and the only "no" option is written and voice acted to be as nasty as possible..

 

Real subtle there.

 

That's because Anders was a hot mess, not because Bioware thinks you should be punished for not being gay. Anders simply didn't handle rejection well.  Some people are like that.  And as others have mentioned, you apparently missed some options where you could have turned him down more gently and not gotten all those rival points.

[Fandango]

Unfortunately I've only had time enough to put a few hours into the game, but I'm already digging its cast of diverse, interesting characters. Please add my voice to those commending the great work Inquisition does in this regard. Kudos Bioware.

[Maverick827]

I can understand the Anders hate if, for whatever reason, you've somehow locked yourself into the "you're punished for not being gay" interpretation.  That would be a pretty damning thing if it were true.

 

But as others have pointed out, when Anders is upset after you turn him down, that doesn't reflect negatively on you, that reflects negatively on Anders.  It's a character flaw.  Would you rather BioWare write flawless, Mary Sue homosexual characters?  Probably not, because you'd criticize that, too.  "Lol, the gay characters are always right and have no flaws and all of the straight characters make tons of mistakes, gg lol"

[robmokron]

TL:DR

 

I'm loving the diversity too, but i feel like its there only to be politaclly correct, In DA:O fereldens were well.. white british people and orlesians were tanned french people haha, it just seems they changed their own lore

[Eternal Phoenix]

I agree with the OP, the diversity was pretty refreshing to see.  Also, the amount of women in stronger positions was a huge plus! Finally, I really liked how they handled the transgender character. 

 

I felt as if Krem was just thrown in to please the people who cried about the portrayal of transsexual characters in past Bioware games (as joke characters in the Brothels). Giving a male NPC model the voice of a female? Sorry but I laughed when I heard it.

 

I don't find anything special about the diversity. Bioware has done this for a long time, something that I do agree is nice.

[Maverick827]

I felt as if Krem was just thrown in to please the people who cried about the portrayal of transsexual characters in past Bioware games (as joke characters in the Brothels). Giving a male NPC model the voice of a female? Sorry but I laughed when I heard it.

 

I don't find anything special about the diversity. Bioware has done this for a long time, something that I do agree is nice.

 

I didn't laugh, but I was confused.  Given the nature of these large games, it's not out of the realm of possibility that it was an error, and the first time you meet Krem, it's as a messenger with no other information.  I still haven't seen it brought up in game at all, to be honest.  It seems like something that needed more attention, or perhaps the lack of attention was the point?

[mickey111]

I agree with the OP, the diversity was pretty refreshing to see.  Also, the amount of women in stronger positions was a huge plus! Finally, I really liked how they handled the transgender character. 

 

 

so, what are bioware aiming for? 50/50? a 1:1:1:1:1 ratio of boy:girl:black:white:brown soldiers, politicians, commanders, companions, citzens?

 

Because perfect symmetry would be a completely strange thing to see, and concepts like "stronger positions" involve an awful lot of personal opinion anyway.

[Nathair Nimheil]

so, what are bioware aiming for? 50/50? a 1:1:1:1:1 ratio of boy:girl:black:white:brown soldiers, politicians, commanders, companions, citzens?

Sounds good! Let's hope they're listening to your suggestion!
 

Because perfect symmetry would be a completely strange thing to see

You might be right and a sad commentary on our culture that is. However, strange or not it would certainly be nice to see.
 

concepts like "stronger positions" involve an awful lot of personal opinion anyway.

Not really, at least not in this context. Positions of authority and agency are pretty unequivocal and contrast easily with their opposites. This is especially true when we're talking about patterns involving multiple people.

[mickey111]

 

Not really, at least not in this context.

 

Yes really. People make decisions based on their experiences, and prejudices, some people cheat their way into power, and some people are just naturally more gifted than others. Even if your fantasy of 1:1 boy:girl in authority comes to reality people here are going to be debating about which military, political and relgious figure was smarter, funnier, tougher, and more successful.

[Nathair Nimheil]

People make decisions based on their experiences, and prejudices, some people cheat their way into power, and some people are just naturally more gifted than others.

I don't see how that is significant. Does any of that apply differently to, say, men than it does to women?
 

Even if your fantasy of 1:1 boy:girl in authority comes to reality people here are going to be debating about which military, political and relgious figure was smarter, funnier, tougher, and more successful.

You've moved the goalposts. Seeing more diversity on positions of authority is a good thing. NOBODY suggested or expects that there must be perfect, unequivocal, mathematical equality at every single level. More. Better. Those are worth doing. Personally I would consider the day we find ourselves arguing about which one of a thoroughly diverse group of peers is the best a complete victory for us all.

[Doctor Mukora]

I'm not going to read the rest of the thread, but I agree.

 

It's really refreshing to see a game actually attempt some degree of diversity and social justice.

[Risien]

Yes really. People make decisions based on their experiences, and prejudices, some people cheat their way into power, and some people are just naturally more gifted than others. Even if your fantasy of 1:1 boy:girl in authority comes to reality people here are going to be debating about which military, political and relgious figure was smarter, funnier, tougher, and more successful.

Your argument doesn't make any sense.  None of that ceases to be true even if every single person in power is a straight white guy. 

[Maria Caliban]

I agree that the diversity is nice.

I also didn't notice it was Jennifer Hale. I thought I'd learned to recognize all her voices.

I'm not going to read the rest of the thread...

"Don't read the comments."

[mikeymoonshine]

I want to argue with the incredibly racist sounding comment but there isn't really much point is there. 

[LegendaryBlade]

Just wish we had gotten more interesting gaymances. I like Dorian and all, but it doesn't hit home to the level that, say, Kaiden did if you gaymances him in ME. Speaking of which;

 

Anders and Kaiden becoming gay for no reason. Although I guess you could justify Anders by thinking of the circle as real life prison.

 

And don't give me that "well you don't really know" nonsense. The characters were clearly established and then they were changed rather than writing new and interesting characters.

 

I heard that some homosexual people also didn't like Steve because he was whiny and shallow, but I can't speak to that. I actually liked Steve because they made him good at his job.

It wasn't for "no reason"; according to dev interviews Kaiden was originally intended to be a possible romance for malesheps but they didn't know if it'd be well accepted by the fans in ME1. Even if that wasn't the case, he was arguably one of the best written romances in ME3 so it's hard to not be okay with it. Anders though I totally agree with; the "everybody is bi" nonsense in DA2 was awful, and especially didn't fit Anders if you played Awakening where he is clearly straight.