247 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

No, in fact Hawke's codex explicitly says they don't blame him/her. Or at least the templars don't.

 

 

Hawke is considered a significant party in the war, but the connotations are different depending on what ending you picked in DA2. It's interesting because if you sided with the mages you have an entry written by a templar that can be summed up as "Was he/she wrong, though?" while siding with the Templars reads like "Why would you even want this a-hole at the Conclave?"

 

Templar ending = top kek. 

 

The only reason I asked is because I thought that Hawke (as the Champion of Kirkwall) was potentially seen as a leader and a symbol of whatever  side s/he took. That if he or she were to die, that it would be a significant symbolic loss to that 'side' of the war. His or her loss would be noted in a way that the Warden's loss wouldn't (except to their potential LIs). I don't know if there was anything in the game to support this impression, but I wondered what might be out there that contradicted it.

[Sah291]

I really struggled with this decision and still don't know what I want to do for my head canon. 
 
My choice comes down to Stroud or Hawke.  I know the lack of time for real development of Stroud makes him something of a red shirt, but I'm tempted to sacrifice Hawke for narrative gravity.  The Ultimate Sacrifice is always my choice in DA:O, and Hawke sacrificing himself fits the tragic nature of his story.  No matter what he did throughout DA2, fate always keeps taking from him.  My canon Hawke romanced Anders.  After so many years together, he couldn't bear to execute him, even if he could never completely forgive the monstrous crime of blowing up the chantry.  I don't think his story is possible to end with a happily ever after.  It just seems that his entire narrative leads to his sacrifice in the Fade.
 
Am I being way to mawkish, or do other people see where I'm coming from?

Yeah I see where you're coming from. I also see Hawke as a tragic figure, who probably won't have a happy ending, but for the opposite reason I guess...as the one who survives, while bad things happen to everyone he loves, so I like the tragic irony of him getting away. The way the nightmare demon taunts him about everyone he cares about dying seems so fitting and sad. I do like the scene with Varric though if he dies.

It will be annoying though if it turns out the one you leave behind lives while the one you send with the wardens dies! I have a feeling they won't do that. But I guess we never know. They were careful with their wording, just in case.

[b09boy]

Always found this choice dumb and those who choose Hawke as those unable to role play.  Remove yourself from DA2 and the fact that s/he was your protagonist and go solely off the knowledge and experience the Inquisitor has and there is next to no reason whatsoever you would possibly want to sacrifice the Warden character over Hawke.  Hawke's entire purpose within the story is introducing you to a character who can actually progress you, that being the Warden in question.  That is it.  That is the beginning and end of that character's usefulness.    Even with hindsight, the Warden character sticks around to help while Hawke goes off and does whatever.  This is not a difficult choice, people are just stuck on fanboyism for Hawke (for some ungodly reason - s/he was not a good character at all).

[KaiserShep]

Always found this choice dumb and those who choose Hawke as those unable to role play.  Remove yourself from DA2 and the fact that s/he was your protagonist and go solely off the knowledge and experience the Inquisitor has and there is next to no reason whatsoever you would possibly want to sacrifice the Warden character over Hawke.  Hawke's entire purpose within the story is introducing you to a character who can actually progress you, that being the Warden in question.  That is it.  That is the beginning and end of that character's usefulness.    Even with hindsight, the Warden character sticks around to help while Hawke goes off and does whatever.  This is not a difficult choice, people are just stuck on fanboyism for Hawke (for some ungodly reason - s/he was not a good character at all).

Well, it kinda goes both ways when you really think about it. The Wardens' usefulness in a blight is just something you have to trust in because Wardens are the ones that seem to end it, but the Inquisitor just doesn't really know the exact reason why. But just the same, whatever it is that makes them unique among the military organizations in Thedas is now a liability. If you intend to get rid of the Wardens entirely, whether or not they can rebuild will probably not be a concern either, so whether or not Stroud/Alistair/Loghain dies would be neither here or there. At the very least, you'd have a potential ally who can at least operate without hearing voices from the ancient evil trying to kill everyone.

 

What's this about the Warden sticking around? The Warden ally goes to Weisshaupt, only he's leading a rebellion, but that's only specified if you banish them, whereas there are no details if you have them help the Inquisition.

[SgtSteel91]

The Warden ally goes to Weisshaupt, only he's leading a rebellion, but that's only specified if you banish them, whereas there are no details if you have them help the Inquisition.

 

That's why I have two world states, one where the Warden dies and the Order stays to rebuild (and the hero of Fereldan is alive) and another where Hawke dies and the Warden leaves with the Order (in this one the HoF is dead). Makes sense to me.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Always found this choice dumb and those who choose Hawke as those unable to role play.  Remove yourself from DA2 and the fact that s/he was your protagonist and go solely off the knowledge and experience the Inquisitor has and there is next to no reason whatsoever you would possibly want to sacrifice the Warden character over Hawke.  Hawke's entire purpose within the story is introducing you to a character who can actually progress you, that being the Warden in question.  That is it.  That is the beginning and end of that character's usefulness.    Even with hindsight, the Warden character sticks around to help while Hawke goes off and does whatever.  This is not a difficult choice, people are just stuck on fanboyism for Hawke (for some ungodly reason - s/he was not a good character at all).

I chose to leave Loghain behind in the Fade because my Inquisitor felt that if they were retreating it was better to have a legendary warrior taking the rearguard than a cut-throat thief who got lucky a few times. Basically, my Quizzy thought Loghain was up to the task, and Hawke wasn't.

[luna1124]

After choosing Alistair to stay this time instead of Hawke, I talked to Fiona. She said (After asking about Alistair) something along the lines of "you may regret the choices you make Inquisitor".

[Boost32]

Always found this choice dumb and those who choose Hawke as those unable to role play. Remove yourself from DA2 and the fact that s/he was your protagonist and go solely off the knowledge and experience the Inquisitor has and there is next to no reason whatsoever you would possibly want to sacrifice the Warden character over Hawke.

My Hawke is the Viscount of Kirkwall, one of the most powerful city-state on the Free Marches, he has powerful friends in high places (like Prince Sebastian, leader of another powerful city-state) and low places (his lover is said to be a admiral of a pirate fleet and she is now helping the Inquisition).
With the Warden dead, the remaining wardens will have to lean more towards their more powerful ally, the Inquisition, giving my Inquisitor a better way to control them.

Now I ask you, what the Warden can give you? And why I should let Hawke die to save the Warden?

[Mykel54]

I´m not sure why should Hawke die to cover up the mistakes of the Wardens. I get that Alistair/Loghain are popular and good characters, but in fairness, if anyone should pay for the mistakes of the Grey Wardens it is one of their own, and not Hawke. The line where Hawke says "Corypheus is mine" seems to imply that she thinks that because she freed Corypheus (even if she didn´t know), she is now responsible for everything he did, so she is willing to give her life.

 

In my game i prefer to let Alistair sacrifice himself, let the wardens stay in Orlais and tell them to honor his example. Hawke can leave to warden capital to be kidnapped or whatever, she has much better chances of surviving that (plus her allies Aveline, Sebastian etc. will go looking for her) that Alistair does.

[KCMeredith]

I left Hawke because it made more sense to me that a warden (Loghain) would lead the others to Weisshaupt. Probably overlooked something in that decision but it felt better to me.

[KaiserShep]

After choosing Alistair to stay this time instead of Hawke, I talked to Fiona. She said (After asking about Alistair) something along the lines of "you may regret the choices you make Inquisitor".

 

Hah, the irony of her saying such a thing.

[MoonblaDAI]

I saved Hawke, left Stroud, exiled the Wardens, kept Blackwall.

 

I saved Hawke: it was unfair from him losing his life because of the the mess the Wardens got into and he had no part on it.

Left Stroud: It would have been perfect being able to save him too, but his sacrifice could be used as an example to the remaining Wardens and a lesson for them to feel the burden of their bad choices.

Exiled the Wardens: The thrall that Corypheus exerts in the Wardens is rooted in their darkspawn taint. Having a sizable amount of Wardens that possibly could turn against Inquisition troops on a whim of Corypheus is not wise. In my headcanon, once Corypheus is out of the equation my Inquisitor would negotiate their return.

Kept Blackwall: He hasn't shown so far any signs of Corypheus' influence, he can stay since he wants to help. Worst case scenario he turns against the Inquisition because of the effect of Corypheus on the taint, he is only one enemy to deal with, not a full regiment of Grey Wardens.

 

As you can see, sympathy for my characters/companions was not a decisive factor in my decision

[b09boy]

Well, it kinda goes both ways when you really think about it. The Wardens' usefulness in a blight is just something you have to trust in because Wardens are the ones that seem to end it, but the Inquisitor just doesn't really know the exact reason why. But just the same, whatever it is that makes them unique among the military organizations in Thedas is now a liability. If you intend to get rid of the Wardens entirely, whether or not they can rebuild will probably not be a concern either, so whether or not Stroud/Alistair/Loghain dies would be neither here or there. At the very least, you'd have a potential ally who can at least operate without hearing voices from the ancient evil trying to kill everyone.

 

What's this about the Warden sticking around? The Warden ally goes to Weisshaupt, only he's leading a rebellion, but that's only specified if you banish them, whereas there are no details if you have them help the Inquisition.

 It doesn't go both ways though.  The Warden has intimate knowledge of the situation that Hawke outright does not.  The Wardens will help your cause directly if you choose to make use of them, Hawke goes off and does something completely unrelated.

 

 

I chose to leave Loghain behind in the Fade because my Inquisitor felt that if they were retreating it was better to have a legendary warrior taking the rearguard than a cut-throat thief who got lucky a few times. Basically, my Quizzy thought Loghain was up to the task, and Hawke wasn't.

Touche.

 

My Hawke is the Viscount of Kirkwall, one of the most powerful city-state on the Free Marches, he has powerful friends in high places (like Prince Sebastian, leadership of another powerful city-state) and low places (his lover is said to be a admiral of a pirate fleet and she is now helping the Inquisition).
With the Warden dead, the remaining defend m wardens will have to lean more towards their more powerful ally, the Inquisition, giving my Inquisitor a better way to control them.

Now I ask you, what the Warden can give you? And why I should let Hawke die to save the Warden?

Your Hawke has abandoned Kirkwall by the time Inquisition begins and has no more ties to it.  Sebastian extends his hand to you already with help from Varric, so Hawke is completely redundant in this, and that is literally the extent of his "friends in high places."  Hawke is a glorified nobody by the time of Inquisition, which is basically one of the points of DA2.  And even should they still retain any of this power...they use none of it.  Hawke ups and leaves the second you're out of the fade.  The Warden does not.

 

The Warden gives you leadership among some of the finest soldier you can be allied with, and a far better knowledge base about anything which is happening seeing as they had a lot more involvement in the situation.

[Boost32]

Your Hawke has abandoned Kirkwall by the time Inquisition begins and has no more ties to it. Sebastian extends his hand to you already with help from Varric, so Hawke is completely redundant in this, and that is literally the extent of his "friends in high places." Hawke is a glorified nobody by the time of Inquisition, which is basically one of the points of DA2. And even should they still retain any of this power...they use none of it. Hawke ups and leaves the second you're out of the fade. The Warden does not.

The Warden gives you leadership among some of the finest soldier you can be allied with, and a far better knowledge base about anything which is happening seeing as they had a lot more involvement in the situation.

Yes he has ties, he still the Viscount:

Spoiler

While our legitimate viscount has indeed vacated his/her office (temporarily, I am promised), much of his/her short reign was spent girding our wounded home. No doubt your leaders heard this is where the ripples of rebellion began. That is true, but it is also where that rebellion was first opposed. As those ripples travel outward, our viscount and Champion contends that the center has earned some calm.

http://dragonage.wik...ate_of_Kirkwall

You don't alienate your allies, saving Hawke will just make the alliance with their friends stronger, and he has others powerful allies, like the nobles who elected him to Viscount.

So what if he leaves? I thought RP shouldn't use meta game knowledge, and the Warden leaves too, so I don't see the advantage.

I don't need a leader for then, I need them to follow my Inquisitor and the senior Warden already told you everything he knows, what other knowledge he can give you?

Something I found funny is that when people say how they can RP the decision to save Hawke, you tell them that that are wrong. Why don't just admit that you are a DA2 hater?

[b09boy]

A viscount that has not seen or been in contact with his city for years.  Wow.  What a strong political ally.

 

And ok, let's talk about strengthening the alliances you already happen to have.  Alliances that are far pretty well removed from anything that's currently got your attention.

 

The Warden doesn't leave right away.  He does so after the conflict is over.

 

If you don't think you need a leader then you have no concept of military organization.  Do you think a CO directly commands every Private?  That would be a colossal waste of time and effort.  The best squads aren't usually so because of their CO, but their squad leaders.

 

And yes, I am a DA2 hater.  And a big part of the reason for that is Hawke is entirely worthless.

[draken-heart]

A viscount that has not seen or been in contact with his city for years.  Wow.  What a strong political ally.

 

And ok, let's talk about strengthening the alliances you already happen to have.  Alliances that are far pretty well removed from anything that's currently got your attention.

 

The Warden doesn't leave right away.  He does so after the conflict is over.

 

If you don't think you need a leader then you have no concept of military organization.  Do you think a CO directly commands every Private?  That would be a colossal waste of time and effort.  The best squads aren't usually so because of their CO, but their squad leaders.

 

And yes, I am a DA2 hater.  And a big part of the reason for that is Hawke is entirely worthless.

 

In the end, both the warden ally and Hawke are pretty worthless in the confines of the game. The warden ends up leaving for the warden HQ in the end, just like Hawke. You choose to ally with the wardens, then they end up breaking ties with the ones in the North/Anderfels. And if you exile them, They either disappear for what seems like good, or the warden ally leads them into a rebellion they likely get destroyed in. Bad move on both parts doing anything in that regard.

[Boost32]

A viscount that has not seen or been in contact with his city for years.  Wow.  What a strong political ally.

 

And ok, let's talk about strengthening the alliances you already happen to have.  Alliances that are far pretty well removed from anything that's currently got your attention.

 

The Warden doesn't leave right away.  He does so after the conflict is over.

 

If you don't think you need a leader then you have no concept of military organization.  Do you think a CO directly commands every Private?  That would be a colossal waste of time and effort.  The best squads aren't usually so because of their CO, but their squad leaders.

 

And yes, I am a DA2 hater.  And a big part of the reason for that is Hawke is entirely worthless.

 

And as you can read in the codex is temporary.

 

The Inquisition need the coin of the nobility for its army, so getting more nobles to support you is a valid RP decision.

 

And he leaves and become worthless anyway.

 

They dont need a Warden leader, they need someone to coordinate them. And as seen in their War Table missions, they are led by Lieutenant Suzanne Cloche-sec, even if the Senior Warden is alive, so they are useless in the end.

 

So if you hate Hawke is OK, just dont come here and say people who saves Hawke cant have a RP explanation for it.

[BMcDill]

Anyone but Hawk.

 

Allllllthoughhh, when you think about the joy that has been Hawk's life it is kind of fitting if you leave him behind, Hawk couldn't catch a break if it was hand walked into his mitt.  And keep in mind, although it looks awful if anyone could survive the fade spider facing him it is Hawk.

[KaiserShep]

 It doesn't go both ways though.  The Warden has intimate knowledge of the situation that Hawke outright does not.  The Wardens will help your cause directly if you choose to make use of them, Hawke goes off and does something completely unrelated.

 

Sure it does. The Warden ally has no more meaningful information on Corypheus than Hawke does. In fact, between the two of them, Hawke is the only one that's actually seen and fought Corypheus, and seen the prison the Wardens built for him, whereas that Warden has not, and would probably have just become a meat suit if he tried. Also, the Warden's intelligence is basically only good for one thing: tracking down the missing Wardens and getting to the bottom of their disappearance. Once we've figured out what they're doing, Hawke's ally has nothing more to tell us.

 

If we're going to seriously roleplay the choice in the Fade, then whoever leaving is irrelevant, unless you're also roleplaying that the Inquisitor can see into the future. And really, it makes no difference, because Stroud/Alistair/Loghain don't stay to help you either.

[b09boy]

In the end, both the warden ally and Hawke are pretty worthless in the confines of the game. The warden ends up leaving for the warden HQ in the end, just like Hawke.

The Warden ends up leaving only after the events of the main story are finished.  Hawke leaves immediately.  Kind of a big difference, there.

 

And as you can read in the codex is temporary.

 

The Inquisition need the coin of the nobility for its army, so getting more nobles to support you is a valid RP decision.

 

And he leaves and become worthless anyway.

 

They dont need a Warden leader, they need someone to coordinate them. And as seen in their War Table missions, they are led by Lieutenant Suzanne Cloche-sec, even if the Senior Warden is alive, so they are useless in the end.

 

So if you hate Hawke is OK, just dont come here and say people who saves Hawke cant have a RP explanation for it.

So temporary he has yet to return and nobody in the city has any idea about him.  Give me a break with that line of BS.  The ridiculousness of him having any more pull in Kirkwall isn't worth the effort of arguing.

 

And a Warden leader is unable to coordinate them?  What?  Isn't that basically what the previously stated fortes of two of the three possible Wardens was?

 

I WILL come here and say people who save Hawke can't have an RP explanation.  Because the ones I've heard are extraordinarily weak.  If you don't like it, try to argue it.  If the best you've got is some invisible ties of leadership to a city he abandoned years ago (one known for changing leadership on the fly, also according to the codex) and some argument about the Warden leader...not being a leader for whatever reason, I'd say I can pretty well rest my case.

[b09boy]

Sure it does. The Warden ally has no more meaningful information on Corypheus than Hawke does. In fact, between the two of them, Hawke is the only one that's actually seen and fought Corypheus, and seen the prison the Wardens built for him,

This is an extraordinarily good point.  In favor of the Warden.  Yes, Hawke has personally fought Cory...and failed, without ever knowing what went wrong.  He also SAW a prison.  On the flipside, the Wardens actually built the prison, and imprisoned him to begin with.  Between a person who has access to the Wardens, and a guy who saw some stuff beyond his knowledge or comprehension, which do you think is more likely to be of use?

[stop_him]

I revel in Hawke's death each playthrough!    

[esper]

Okay,

 

My Herald hated the wardens the wardens. As far as she knew they joined forces with Corypheus willingly and tried to bind a demon army to march into the Deep road. Since she knows nothing about how wardens Work she cannot see how they are needed. As far as she was concerned Blackwall was enough to defeat the archdemon pet (Again RP she didn't know about Blackwall).

 

 

The warden ally had been exiled by his own Group and there was no evidence they would listen to him. Hawke had fought and defeated Corypheus before and at the very least knew how he would fight.

 

Also my Hawke had apperently helped cirlces rebelled all over Thedas and was symbol of the mage rebellion, and my Herald was not about to potentially ruffle the rebes mages feathers, they were an important part of her army, the grey wardens were not, and got sent out of Orlais ASAP.

 

Also Varric had properly warned my Herald by now that Hawke's lover was kinda unstable and known to blow up chantries.

 

 

Of course it was a split second decision. and so far my Inqusitor had to choose between the symbol of freedom to her Allies, who might have personally helped many of them fight back against their circles (and my Inqusitor had no idea who Hawke helped) or a member of the group that had willingly aided her enemy, It was not a hard decision.

[SgtSteel91]

In my game, Loghain was an old man and wanted to sacrifice himself for the Warden's mistake (and probably also his own mistakes in DAO most). The Inquisition will be the one who will lead and command the Grey Wardens and help them rebuild (maybe later the HoF will lead them if/when they come back with a possible cure for the Calling) until they can stand on their own again (this time with the rest of the world standing with them).

 

I also like the end to Loghain's story, commoner who became a general and a noble. The General who had to make a hard, but necessary decision at an important battle that eventually cost him everything. Given a second chance in the Order that looks at him as a traitor, even before he objects to their Demon Army plan. Now at the end, he had become a true Grey Warden, that my Inquisitor, at least, sees as a hero and an inspiration to all other Grey Wardens.

 

That's not to say I also don't like him alive. I also find the story interesting if he's alive but exiled with the rest of the Wardens. He story began as a rebel and now it seems like the end of his story will be leading another rebellion. Nice book closure.

[A.Kazama]

I always get the feeling if Hawke sacrifices his/her self they'd end up escaping from the giant demon and end up exploring (and eventually escaping) the fade. I doubt Bioware would kill of such an important character like that.

Plus this comic makes me laugh. Source: http://gemwillyart.t...ng-laying-in-a