109 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

No one is arguing that the Wardens are done, and I expect one of the story dlc is going to cover Weisshaupt, but the Hero of Ferelden needs to be left alone.

 

Now I get it. I agree. My Warden is dead. Good point and thanks so much for explaining.

[Ariella]

Now I get it. I agree. My Warden is dead. Good point and thanks so much for explaining.

Of course. My pleasure.

[Mummy22kids]

Personally I would have been happy to never have the HoF mentioned again in any game.  I really hope the HoF story ends with a "Oops she died" letter.

[In Exile]

The Calling bit is just a plot coupon Bioware introduced to address what would otherwise have been the borderline aggressive complaint about what the HOF would be doing during DA:I. This is the (parody version) of the conversation Bioware wanted to avoid:

 

Warden Fan: Where is the HOF during DA:I? My HOF is a superlative badass titant warrior/rogue/mage murder god of killing. She/he'd kill Corypheus in a heartbeat, wear his spine like a belt, use his teeth to make cornmeal, and be back home before supper to rule Ferelden/hang with Zevran/party with Leliana/raise Kieran/build sand castles with Alistair. 

 

Bioware: Err... Calling!

 

Warden Fan: What?

 

Bioware: Curing the Calling. Yes. That's it. The Warden is off to cure the Calling!

 

Bioware: Far away. Yes. Really far. Over there. Which isn't here. It's so over there that the Warden can't get right here until way after the plot is over. Yup. Whew. 

[robertthebard]

The Calling bit is just a plot coupon Bioware introduced to address what would otherwise have been the borderline aggressive complaint about what the HOF would be doing during DA:I. This is the (parody version) of the conversation Bioware wanted to avoid:
 
Warden Fan: Where is the HOF during DA:I? My HOF is a superlative badass titant warrior/rogue/mage murder god of killing. She/he'd kill Corypheus in a heartbeat, wear his spine like a belt, use his teeth to make cornmeal, and be back home before supper to rule Ferelden/hang with Zevran/party with Leliana/raise Kieran/build sand castles with Alistair. 
 
Bioware: Err... Calling!
 
Warden Fan: What?
 
Bioware: Curing the Calling. Yes. That's it. The Warden is off to cure the Calling!
 
Bioware: Far away. Yes. Really far. Over there. Which isn't here. It's so over there that the Warden can't get right here until way after the plot is over. Yup. Whew.

Didn't that conversation actually take place? Well, except that end bit anyway, unless that was on company memos...

[AresKeith]

The Calling bit is just a plot coupon Bioware introduced to address what would otherwise have been the borderline aggressive complaint about what the HOF would be doing during DA:I. This is the (parody version) of the conversation Bioware wanted to avoid:

 

Warden Fan: Where is the HOF during DA:I? My HOF is a superlative badass titant warrior/rogue/mage murder god of killing. She/he'd kill Corypheus in a heartbeat, wear his spine like a belt, use his teeth to make cornmeal, and be back home before supper to rule Ferelden/hang with Zevran/party with Leliana/raise Kieran/build sand castles with Alistair. 

 

Bioware: Err... Calling!

 

Warden Fan: What?

 

Bioware: Curing the Calling. Yes. That's it. The Warden is off to cure the Calling!

 

Bioware: Far away. Yes. Really far. Over there. Which isn't here. It's so over there that the Warden can't get right here until way after the plot is over. Yup. Whew. 

 

Yep, and while they could kill off the Warden off-screen by saying they went to their calling picture the complaints if Bioware did that

[robertthebard]

Yep, and while they could kill off the Warden off-screen by saying they went to their calling picture the complaints if Bioware did that

It would have the desired effect of eliminating the HoF, however, and just as the storm from ME3's ending has abated, it too, would go away. Probably a lot sooner, because the sheer number of people that believe the HoF needs a return to make the DA setting work is significantly smaller.

[dsl08002]

It would have the desired effect of eliminating the HoF, however, and just as the storm from ME3's ending has abated, it too, would go away. Probably a lot sooner, because the sheer number of people that believe the HoF needs a return to make the DA setting work is significantly smaller.

It has not gone away with ME3, More likley brewed and infected

[Iakus]

It would have the desired effect of eliminating the HoF, however, and just as the storm from ME3's ending has abated, it too, would go away. Probably a lot sooner, because the sheer number of people that believe the HoF needs a return to make the DA setting work is significantly smaller.

The ME3 ending debate has most certainly not gone away.  Even if time has exhausted many voices 

 

And killing off the Warden would in its own way, be as bad as bringing the HoF back.  You are frakking with the player's character.  If they're going to remove the Warden, better to simply advance the timeline a few decades .

[robertthebard]

The ME3 ending debate has most certainly not gone away.  Even if time has exhausted many voices 
 
And killing off the Warden would in its own way, be as bad as bringing the HoF back.  You are frakking with the player's character.  If they're going to remove the Warden, better to simply advance the timeline a few decades .

Once the end credits roll on Awakening, it is no longer your character. In fact, it's arguably never your character. Just as in MMOs, everything belongs to BioWare, to do with as they see fit. Despite your claim, when was the last time ME 3's ending was front page news on any gaming site, a couple of years ago? Are there still people carrying on? Undoubtably, you'll find some posts by me on the topic, a couple years back, but really, it's yesterday's news. The absolute best thing they could do for this franchise is kill the Warden offscreen. A year more of storm, and then, poof, peace to develop the story they want to develop.

[Ariella]

And killing off the Warden would in its own way, be as bad as bringing the HoF back.  You are frakking with the player's character.  If they're going to remove the Warden, better to simply advance the timeline a few decades .

I'm not going to even tiptoe into me 3, but with the release of WoT 2, there are a bunch of places outside of Thedas they could send the HoF to. Advancing the timeline right now wouldn't work in a storytelling sense at the.moment. Too many plot threads that need to be resolved sooner rather than later.

Weisshaupt going silent is one. Wouldn't make sense to hold off for a decade or two in that case. And yes, I know I'm talking dlc but that's one of the things the rabid HoF fans are lobbying for.

[Iakus]

Once the end credits roll on Awakening, it is no longer your character. In fact, it's arguably never your character. Just as in MMOs, everything belongs to BioWare, to do with as they see fit. Despite your claim, when was the last time ME 3's ending was front page news on any gaming site, a couple of years ago? Are there still people carrying on? Undoubtably, you'll find some posts by me on the topic, a couple years back, but really, it's yesterday's news. The absolute best thing they could do for this franchise is kill the Warden offscreen. A year more of storm, and then, poof, peace to develop the story they want to develop.

Sure the HoF is no longer "our character"  But Bioware has (hopefully) learned from ME3 that if they do not treat former player characters with respect, it will unleash a sh*tstorm from which no one wins.  Simply offing the Warden so you don't have to deal with him/her anymore would not be respectful.  And it would be remembered.

 

I'm not going to even tiptoe into me 3, but with the release of WoT 2, there are a bunch of places outside of Thedas they could send the HoF to. Advancing the timeline right now wouldn't work in a storytelling sense at the.moment. Too many plot threads that need to be resolved sooner rather than later.

Weisshaupt going silent is one. Wouldn't make sense to hold off for a decade or two in that case. And yes, I know I'm talking dlc but that's one of the things the rabid HoF fans are lobbying for.

Might be interesting places to visit eventually, but there's still a lot of Thedas to explore.

 

What the rabid HoF fans need to figure out is that while yes the Warden may continue to have adventures, they're not adventures we're going to see.  And that is fine.  

 

Bringing the Warden back would suck.  My Cousland who dual-wielded longswords?  Gone.  My Surana blood mage who wielded entropy and spirit magic rather than the more common fire/ice/lightning?  Gone.  My Aeducan warrior, well, he's dead anyway, so it's moot.  My Maheriel?  He walked away from the Wardens after the Battle of Denerim, didn't even become Warden Commander of Vigil's Keep.  My Tabris?  Busy being Bann of the Alienage.

 

If my Wardens returned, they'd all be OOC pod people, not my Warden.  If you want them to keep having adventures, imagine away.  Write fanfiction.  Want them to die on a glorious Calling?  Let them.  Want them to live happily ever after with Leliana/Alistair/Morrigan/Zevran/someone else?  Let them.  Want them to keep having adventures to the far reaches of Thedas and beyond?  Let them.

 

But don't pigeonhole them into whatever cameo Bioware dreams up that will do more to enrage the audience than placate them.

[Ariella]

 
But don't pigeonhole them into whatever cameo Bioware dreams up that will do more to enrage the audience than placate them.

If the HoF didn't get a mention here, there would have been just as much screaming. It's really a lose/lose situation for Bioware.

[In Exile]

Sure the HoF is no longer "our character"  But Bioware has (hopefully) learned from ME3 that if they do not treat former player characters with respect, it will unleash a sh*tstorm from which no one wins.  Simply offing the Warden so you don't have to deal with him/her anymore would not be respectful.  And it would be remembered.

 

I don't think the lesson to learn is respect, per se, but then I don't think the issues with ME3's nonsense ending are tied to Shepard at all. I actually thought - given, again, the complete nonsense ending - that Bioware handled Shepard in a pretty respectful way. They just forgot they were writing ME and time-travelled back to the late 1990s to come up with a better ending to Deux Ex. 

[leaguer of one]

Once the end credits roll on Awakening,

Correction:Once the credits foll on Witchhunt.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Once the end credits roll on Awakening, it is no longer your character. In fact, it's arguably never your character. Just as in MMOs, everything belongs to BioWare, to do with as they see fit. Despite your claim, when was the last time ME 3's ending was front page news on any gaming site, a couple of years ago? Are there still people carrying on? Undoubtably, you'll find some posts by me on the topic, a couple years back, but really, it's yesterday's news. The absolute best thing they could do for this franchise is kill the Warden offscreen. A year more of storm, and then, poof, peace to develop the story they want to develop.

Hm but it is my character as well any other player ,dao was very good rpg where protagonist was shaped entirely by the player and no single personality trait was given to them by bioware. 

[Hacedor1566]

It's the same story always with Bioware. Again, and again, and again. They do a nice game. They plan to do a trilogy with it but they don't plan the trilogy well. They imagine it on the road, putting plotholes allong the way. They then return to the initial point and... Wops. The road has fallen. Too many holes. Now there's not a solution. 

 

The Warden in DA: O is one of those things. If he/she died in the DA:O ending, no matter what, then all of this "Warden thing" will never happened. Buuuut nope. They put there the possibility of making him a nice and alive hero walking the land. And, if it's her, then Queen of Ferelden itself. A very bad Queen BTW, because she's NEVER THERE in any Ferelden Crisis. The mages rebellion one, for example... It's one of those moments when a kingdom needs his kings (both of them) specially because that queen was THE ONE WHO NEGOTIATE AND BRING TOGETHER MAGES OR TEMPLARS, OR BOTH. But no... She's out there.. You curing the blight or somethig... If I live in Ferelden, the first thing I put on the table is king's divorce. You know, your majesty, amh... Your spouse is... Not here... Never. So yo may consider... Ahem. Divorce. 

 

So, DAII. Alister was there because... What again? He was not necessary to that story. And the King of Ferelden (again, alone... You must do it very poorly in the bed, your majesty... Ahem) goes to talk with some rich person because... Reasons. 

 

And then we have DA: I. There's a war, demons attacking the contryside and of course the noble Queen Cousland is shopping so she's busy while her kingdom's population is getting slaughtered. And Orlais, you know, your imperials neighoors, are in a civil war, so it may invade you in any moment. And yes, the castle of Redcliff, you know, the most important defense outpost against Orlais has been taken from your hands (YOUR HANDS, MY AUSENT QUEEN) by some mages. So it's important for royalty being there. In the throne. Also the wardens... Weisshaupt has gone silent, the mages has turned into some fanatical assholes, and you're Warden-Commander aswell. So you should come here soon, my Queen, and **** to your little quest. 

 

How do we solve this? We may could, in the past. If: 

 

1) We've killed the Warden in DA:O. 

1.5) The Warden-Commander was Orlesian, whatever our Warden has survived or not. If he/she is alone or not involved in anything, then he can have gone to make that cure. 

2) We've not mentioned anything of Ferelden in DAII while you're in Kirkwall. Rumors, and some talking, but that's all. Ferelden is now rebuiling the country. There're all busy there.

3) DA:I 100% Orlais. And we make a cameo of Alister when we go to the Orlesian Ball. There King Alister can say "yeah, my wife, the Queen, is dealing with dozens of problems back in Ferelden, while I'm here as the ruler of a Kingdom trying to prevent this Imperials bastards on to invading my country". We can put here Anora as Queen, with or without Alister. Alister can be send as a king by Anora, Alister can appear as Grey Warden if he's not king in the Warden's quest and if The Warden is not the queen or any of this, then yes, he/she's looking for a cure for the calling. 

 

And ¡BUM! Problem solved. That's called planning a trilogy. But no. This has to be made a la Bioware. We put a lot of epic things and we don't think in any of these until it's too late. And then we give everybody a cheap excuse. Hail, to the most plotholes creators of the world!!!

 

You'll know, The Warden will be killed ofscreen, In a tavern brawl or something. Or he/she will be unable to find a cure and finally killed by the calling. Mark my words. The Warden will be killed offscreen. DA4 will make another character, Solas will be a brief cameo and that's it. And The inquisitor will not be appear again. Hawke will probably become a corpse in Weisshaupt, if he/she's not dead in Inquisition. If we ever hear from that again, which I doubt. Grey Wardens will not appear again. In the next game we'll in Tevinter or involved in Qunari-Tevinter war and any of the Inquistion things will appear in any game, nor their characters. Maybe in DA5 our Inquisitor will be killed offscreen because he/she's becoming what the Warden is in DA:I. Something we didn't think off. Or maybe he/she's looking for a cure for... You know... Inquisition stuff. 

 

PS: Again, even now we can solve the Warden crisis. Put a Weisshaupt DLC where we take control of: Alister, or Loghain or Sprout if they're not dead. If they're dead then Ser Ruth if we didn't killed her in Inquisition. If we killed everybody then a Random Warden. BUT if HoF is alive, then we take control of our Warden. He/she witnesses some important and horrifyng stuff in Weisshaupt and goes to the inqusition to tell them. (Yeah, Warden might be Queen of Ferelden, but, she's not on the throne never anyway, so **** that. I'm sure not even Alister remebers her anymore) And that's it. A short, nice DLC that will deal with HoF, Wardens, and all the plotholes we left. And we can make a nice road to DA4 without making anybody pissed. Bioware can do that, of course. But will they do that? Of course not. They will continue their story (their story, it will never be ours... I don't know why they even let us create a character anymore, put there your generic hero Bioware, like Geralt of Rivia, and just stop ****** about "choose matters") they will kill Warden offscreen and will go to DA4. And then DA5 will end with... Yes, red/blue/green explosions everywhere!!!! 

[robertthebard]

Hm but it is my character as well any other player ,dao was very good rpg where protagonist was shaped entirely by the player and no single personality trait was given to them by bioware. 

Nope. We don't "own" anything in the game. Ownership of the game is closer to a license to play it. You can play it however you wish, unlike MMOs where there are guidelines, but the IP(Intellectual Property) belongs to BioWare, and by extension now, I suppose, EA. As such, they are free to do whatever they wish with it. How many bloodmage Hawkes were mad at blood mages in Inquisition again?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nope. We don't "own" anything in the game. Ownership of the game is closer to a license to play it. You can play it however you wish, unlike MMOs where there are guidelines, but the IP(Intellectual Property) belongs to BioWare, and by extension now, I suppose, EA. As such, they are free to do whatever they wish with it. How many bloodmage Hawkes were mad at blood mages in Inquisition again?

Game and universe belongs to bioware ,however pc was entirely shaped by the player and bioware have no idea what player created thus don't own that character at best they can write their own.

 

Hawke always had personality well 1 of 3 and even traits given them by devs outside player control this wasn't in case with the warden.

[robertthebard]

Game and universe belongs to bioware ,however pc was entirely shaped by the player and bioware have no idea what player created thus don't own that character at best they can write their own.
 
Hawke always had personality well 1 of 3 and even traits given them by devs outside player control this wasn't in case with the warden.

What did you use to create your Warden? Did you use the in game character creator, or the pre-released one? Both of those are the property of BioWare. Any results garnered from them are, you guessed it, the property of BioWare. Your intricate choices for your standing there like a buffoon letting people talk at you character? All crafted by, you may have guessed it, BioWare. The Warden is part of the IP that is Dragon Age. It is not a separate entity that you introduced from elsewhere. Of course, I suspect this is more about denial than not actually knowing it's true, though.

[TheKomandorShepard]

What did you use to create your Warden? Did you use the in game character creator, or the pre-released one? Both of those are the property of BioWare. Any results garnered from them are, you guessed it, the property of BioWare. Your intricate choices for your standing there like a buffoon letting people talk at you character? All crafted by, you may have guessed it, BioWare. The Warden is part of the IP that is Dragon Age. It is not a separate entity that you introduced from elsewhere. Of course, I suspect this is more about denial than not actually knowing it's true, though.

I used microsoft paint to paint a picture ,does that mean microsoft owns my picture?

Or bioware owns my saves?

 

As i said game is their but what i created within like save games or character are mine.

[KaiserShep]

I used microsoft paint to paint a picture ,does that mean microsoft owns my picture?

Or bioware owns my saves?

 

As i said game is their but what i created within like save games or character are mine.

 

Except Paint is in the same vein as Photoshop, in that there is virtually no limit in the type of content you can create. The same is not true of the Warden. It's just a fictional character on an elaborate set of rails. You can't, for instance, romance Bella, or kill a Chanter, or murder knife Morrigan in her sleep. You can't kill Duncan to avoid the Joining altogether, or grab Daveth and head for the hills. It's just a multitude of settings to give the feeling of personalization. The rest is basically up to your imagination, though it probably doesn't matter now, since all surviving Wardens are doing the exact same thing. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Except Paint is in the same vein as Photoshop, in that there is virtually no limit in the type of content you can create. The same is not true of the Warden. It's just a fictional character on an elaborate set of rails. You can't, for instance, romance Bella, or kill a Chanter, or murder knife Morrigan in her sleep. You can't kill Duncan to avoid the Joining altogether, or grab Daveth and head for the hills. It's just a multitude of settings to give the feeling of personalization. The rest is basically up to your imagination, though it probably doesn't matter now, since all surviving Wardens are doing the exact same thing. 

No? Can i create song in paint? So yet there is limit in the type of content you can create in paint.Same with the warden devs gave you tools so you can create something in both cases you have a lot of freedom but in both cases you are limited to tools given by creator.

 

Besides what you have said well has no relevance to thing i was saying.    

[Eelectrica]

So far as I'm concerned my warden made the ultimate sacrifice. Yes more wardens came after but I think the ultimate sacrifice ending is the best and most bad ass ending for Origins.