239 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

You mean the word for sex and gender probably are the same. It's almost the same in my country (there's a word for gender but it's rarely used), which by the way is actually very progressive.

 

I have a very hard time believing most of this. Your country (Can I ask which one it is?) almost certainly have social gender constructs. Not having a word for it doesn't equal it not existing.

Of course there are still social constructs based on the sex of a person. Men are still paid more than women in some fields, which is entirely despicable (but it is rapidly changing (and technically illegal)). And we are still prisoners of the previous century, and the stereotypes it brought with it. But with that being said, we here in Denmark, don't try to limit eachother (at least not regarding sex and gender). But we aren't blind to the differences either.

 

NOTE: Of course there are going to be exceptions, but I am talking of the general attitude in Denmark's population.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Kinda glad now that i live in a country whose people are just socially awkward and these things just cause nervous fidgeting. What you describe doesnt sound nice at all.

General acceptance of quirky characteristics, don't sound nice? 

[Meraxes]

Of course there are still social constructs based on the sex of a person. Men are still paid more than women in some fields, which is entirely despicable (but it is rapidly changing (and technically illegal)). And we are still prisoners of the previous century, and the stereotypes it brought with it. But with that being said, we here in Denmark, don't try to limit eachother (at least not regarding sex and gender). But we aren't blind to the differences either.

 

NOTE: Of course there are going to be exceptions, but I am talking of the general attitude in Denmark's population.

Oh, this is hilarious.

 

While Denmark is better than most countries in this matter, dear neighbour, you're far from perfect. You just said yourself that social gender constructs exist. So gender and sex is not the same thing in Denmark. Neither is it in my country.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Oh, this is hilarious.

 

While Denmark is better than most countries in this matter, dear neighbour, you're far from perfect. You just said yourself that social gender constructs exist. So gender and sex is not the same thing in Denmark. Neither is it in my country.

Im not saying we are perfect. Far from it. But we generally have a "live and let live" attitude towards eachother (unless you are a foreigner, then you are probably not far from the devil himself). But regarding sex, we usually couldn't care less. What I am aying is that, since the word for gender and sex (and pretty) is the same word, the distance between the two terms is not that great.

 

And I think you misudnerstand me. I don't think gender constructs are a bad thing. I think they are an integral part of society and culture. I think gender RESTRICTIONS are bad (I also think denial of ones own sex is mentally unhealthy, but that is another can of worms). But there are absolutely no reasons why a woman shouldn't be allowed certain jobs, or to act a certain way, if that is what she wants (and of course if she qualifies for the job).

[Roamingmachine]

General acceptance of quirky characteristics, don't sound nice? 

You said that if a minority points out social injustice and suggests correcting it, the society suddenly turns very intolerant. That doesn't sound very nice.

 

Oh, and a transman is a man and a transwoman a woman. Anyone claiming otherwise is speaking fighting words.

[Meraxes]

Im not saying we are perfect. Far from it. But we generally have a "live and let live" attitude towards eachother (unless you are a foreigner, then you are probably not far from the devil himself). But regarding sex, we usually couldn't care less. What I am aying is that, since the word for gender and sex (and pretty) is the same word, the distance between the two terms is not that great.

 

And I think you misudnerstand me. I don't think gender constructs are a bad thing. I think they are an integral part of society and culture. I think gender RESTRICTIONS are bad (I also think denial of ones own sex is mentally unhealthy, but that is another can of worms). But there are absolutely no reasons why a woman shouldn't be allowed certain jobs, or to act a certain way, if that is what she wants (and of course if she qualifies for the job).

I'm not talking about terms. I'm talking about constructs that actually exist, whether they have words or not.

 

I'm not even sure what we're debating anymore, This entire thread has gone kind of off-topic.

[Radan]

Well this thread was doomed to explode

[EmperorSahlertz]

You said that if a minority points out social injustice and suggests correcting it, the society suddenly turns very intolerant. That doesn't sound very nice.

 

Oh, and a transman is a man and a transwoman a woman. Anyone claiming otherwise is speaking fighting words.

Not social injustice. But that society should take special care of their needs, at the detriment of others at times.

 

For instance, a while ago a Transwoman (is that a man who acts like a woman? Hell, I don't know my way around the terms), wanted to be exempt from military service, even though law requires that all able bodied men of the age 18 or more, meet up for evaluation and potential service. Howeer, he wanted to be exemt on the grounds that he was actually female, and thus not required to by law. However, he IS a man, no matter how much he wish it weren't so, and thus is NOT above the law. So he was slapped with a conscientious objection charge and thrown in jail for breaking the law. I find that completely justified, since if it wasn't done, it would leave open a ridiculously large loophole in the law.

(Funny fact: If he had just shown up at the evaluation, he would ahve had a 90% chance of being disregarded anyway, since the army has more than enough volunteers, that they don't need to draft)

[Xilizhra]

Not social injustice. But that society should take special care of their needs, at the detriment of others at times.

 

For instance, a while ago a Transwoman (is that a man who acts like a woman? Hell, I don't know my way around the terms), wanted to be exempt from military service, even though law requires that all able bodied men of the age 18 or more, meet up for evaluation and potential service. Howeer, he wanted to be exemt on the grounds that he was actually female, and thus not required to by law. However, he IS a man, no matter how much he wish it weren't so, and thus is NOT above the law. So he was slapped with a conscientious objection charge and thrown in jail for breaking the law. I find that completely justified, since if it wasn't done, it would leave open a ridiculously large loophole in the law.

(Funny fact: If he had just shown up at the evaluation, he would ahve had a 90% chance of being disregarded anyway, since the army has more than enough volunteers, that they don't need to draft)

Well, no he's not. He might be genetically male, but if the law is to aim for that alone, it should be rewritten. Hopefully the injustice done will be small.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, no he's not. He might be genetically male, but if the law is to aim for that alone, it should be rewritten. Hopefully the injustice done will be small.

No. He is male. He does not get to be above the law just because he "feels like a woman". Otherwise it would leave a dangerous precedent, and suddenly a lot of 18 year old men would suddenly develop a "feeling", leading up to their draft, which would suddenly dissipate after.

 

Socially he can be treated as a woman, but when it comes to the law, he will be treated and judged as he was born. Period.

[Xilizhra]

No. He is male. He does not get to be above the law just because he "feels like a woman". Otherwise it would leave a dangerous precedent, and suddenly a lot of 18 year old men would suddenly develop a "feeling", leading up to their draft, which would suddenly dissipate after.

 

Socially he can be treated as a woman, but when it comes to the law, he will be treated and judged as he was born. Period.

For now. May it be changed with haste.

 

Also, your deliberate misgendering is showing. Decidedly a form of harassment, that.

[EmperorSahlertz]

For now. May it be changed with haste.

 

Also, your deliberate misgendering is showing. Decidedly a form of harassment, that.

I couldn't care less what he/she/it wants to be called in social gatherings. In the eyes of the law he IS a male. There is no more to it. That pesky Y chromosone has thrown a wrench in his wheel.

[Xilizhra]

I couldn't care less what he/she/it wants to be called in social gatherings. In the eyes of the law he IS a male. There is no more to it. That pesky Y chromosone has thrown a wrench in his wheel.

Actually, you can get your legal sex changed as well.

[Roamingmachine]

Not social injustice. But that society should take special care of their needs, at the detriment of others at times.

 

For instance, a while ago a Transwoman (is that a man who acts like a woman? Hell, I don't know my way around the terms), wanted to be exempt from military service, even though law requires that all able bodied men of the age 18 or more, meet up for evaluation and potential service. Howeer, he wanted to be exemt on the grounds that he was actually female, and thus not required to by law. However, he IS a man, no matter how much he wish it weren't so, and thus is NOT above the law. So he was slapped with a conscientious objection charge and thrown in jail for breaking the law. I find that completely justified, since if it wasn't done, it would leave open a ridiculously large loophole in the law.

(Funny fact: If he had just shown up at the evaluation, he would ahve had a 90% chance of being disregarded anyway, since the army has more than enough volunteers, that they don't need to draft)

 

Atranswoman is a woman who is biologically male. She doesn't act like a woman she IS a woman. And yeah your example is a social injustice that needs to be corrected.