239 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Well, to be fair, there's probably alot of other things that would complicate this.  Being with Krem would mean that you were in a gay relationship.  He fundamentally does not identify as a female.  He acts and views himself as a male.  Krem, if he were to be with you, would be identifying as a gay male specifically.  There are a lot of nuances regarding gender in relationships where one partner is trans..

 

No, because gay is sexuality and Krem's sex is female. Sexuality is about sex, sex is about the usage of sexual organs, has nothing to do with behavior what so ever. 

[KainD]

That could be really hard to wrap your head around if you were, say, born in a female body and feel you are female. It is just hard to comprehend how someone could feel differently.

 

Really hard to wrap around my head indeed. Been discussing this topic for freaking years, zero progress. 

[daveliam]

No, because gay is sexuality and Krem's sex is female. Sexuality is about sex, sex is about the usage of sexual organs, has nothing to do with behavior what so ever. 

 

Huh?  If Krem identifies as a man and is in a sexual relationship with another man, then he would be a gay man, no?

[KainD]

Huh?  If Krem identifies as a man and is in a sexual relationship with another man, then he would be a gay man, no?

 

No. Because gay would be about male and not man. Post op, it would be gay. 

[daveliam]

No. Because gay would be about male and not man. Post op, it would be gay. 

 

No.  This is absolutely not true.  A transman or transwoman does not need surgery.  If a transman identifies as a man and is sexually attracted to other men, most times he will identify as a gay man.  Just like any other man who is attracted to men. I have another acquaintance who is a straight transman.  He identifies as a man and is exclusively attracted to women.  He does not view himself as a lesbian because lesbians are women and he does view himself as a woman.  He identifies as a straight man.

[KainD]

No.  This is absolutely not true.  A transman or transwoman does not need surgery.  If a transman identifies as a man and is sexually attracted to other men, most times he will identify as a gay man.  Just like any other man who is attracted to men. I have another acquaintance who is a straight transman.  He identifies as a man and is exclusively attracted to women.  He does not view himself as a lesbian because lesbians are women and he does view himself as a woman.  He identifies as a straight man.

 

Ok one more time - sexuality is about SEX, not attraction. Sex is about sexual organs. 

Here's an example: I am NOT attracted to women in general, but I like to have sex with them. 

[daveliam]

Ok one more time - sexuality is about SEX, not attraction. Sex is about sexual organs. 

Here's an example: I am NOT attracted to women in general, but I like to have sex with them. 

 

It is entirely too late for me to try to decipher what you are getting at.  I understand the difference between biological sex and gender and sexuality. 

 

A transman is biologically female, but views his gender as male.  His sexuality is completely separate from that.  So a transman who is attracted to women exclusively is straight. 

 

I have no idea what "I'm not attracted to women in general, but I like to have sex with them" means and frankly, I don't see what it has to do with this conversation. 

 

ETA:  And, no, sexuality is not only about sex.  It is about attraction as well.

[KainD]

It is entirely too late for me to try to decipher what you are getting at.  I understand the difference between biological sex and gender and sexuality. 

 

A transman is biologically female, but views his gender as male.  His sexuality is completely separate from that.  So a transman who is attracted to women exclusively is straight. 

 

I have no idea what "I'm not attracted to women in general, but I like to have sex with them" means and frankly, I don't see what it has to do with this conversation. 

 

I will explain. Let's say that I am horny and would like to blow off some steam and I meet Krem and Krem is also in the mood and wouldn't mind a shag. 

 

Now I don't know anything about Krem at all, don't know Krem's name, or personality and I don't really need to, because I am not a demisexual, so I don't need to know someone in order to be able to have sex with them. 

 

So there is only one factor that counts: 

If Krem has a vagina, we are good to go, we can have sex. 

If Krem has a penis, my body fails to function sexually, to be aroused and I am unable to have sex with Krem. 

 

^That is my sexuality at work. 

[daveliam]

I will explain. Let's say that I am horny and would like to blow off some steam and I meet Krem and Krem is also in the mood and wouldn't mind a shag. 

 

Now I don't know anything about Krem at all, don't know Krem's name, or personality and I don't really need to, because I am not a demisexual, so I don't need to know someone in order to be able to have sex with them. 

 

So there is only one factor that counts: 

If Krem has a vagina, we are good to go, we can have sex. 

If Krem has a penis, my body fails to function sexually, to be aroused and I am unable to have sex with Krem. 

 

^That is my sexuality at work. 

 

Okay.  Thanks for sharing.  How, exactly, does that relate to anything in the conversation?  If you are having sex with Krem, a transman, your sexuality is your own business.  It's not my place to label you.  You can identify as straight, bi, whatever.  But it has nothing to do with the fact that a transman who is exclusively attracted to men will likely identify as a gay man. 

[TheJester000]

Have you done Bull's personal quest yet. (The answer is yes, he does have a purpose.)

 

Ok, good. I was really hoping they would flesh out his character more and not leave him as a publicity stunt.

[KainD]

You can identify as straight, bi, whatever.  

 

That's not what you said before: 

 

 

Being with Krem would mean that you were in a gay relationship.  

 

What I'm saying is, I am straight, but I wouldn't mind hitting Krem. 

[daveliam]

That's not what you said before: 

 

 

 

 

What I'm saying is, I am straight, but I wouldn't mind hitting Krem. 

 

The relationship is between two men.  It's a gay relationship (same sex).  A bisexual man in a relationship with another bisexual man is in a same sex relationship and neither are gay. 

Also, gathering from the transmen that I know, you wouldn't be 'hitting' Krem at all.  Given that he identifies as a man, he would likely not have sex like a woman.  That just makes sense.

[CuriousArtemis]

Just watch The Crying Game people 

[KainD]

The relationship is between two men.  It's a gay relationship (same sex).  A bisexual man in a relationship with another bisexual man is in a same sex relationship and neither are gay. 

Also, gathering from the transmen that I know, you wouldn't be 'hitting' Krem at all.  Given that he identifies as a man, he would likely not have sex like a woman.  That just makes sense.

 

Uhuh.. I'm just going to speed up this convo up a bit: 

 

And then we go: But what does it mean to be a man? 

 

 

You live like a man by identifying as a man and telling everyone that you are a man.  Oh, and asking people to call you a man and use male pronouns.  That's what people are talking about when saying 'living as a man'.  It has nothing to do with his profession.

 

 

And then we go: But that doesn't make any sense..

 

 

Frankly, it doesn't matter if it 'makes sense' to you.  It's a personal thing that it's in people's heads.  I just know to respect people's wishes and not constantly nitpick at what people say about it. 

 

 

Every single one of these conversations I had. I dunno, I am just not destined to understand. 

[daveliam]

Uhuh.. I'm just going to speed up this convo up a bit: 

 

And then we go: But what does it mean to be a man? 

 

 

And then we go: But that doesn't make any sense..

 

 

Every single one of these conversations I had. I dunno, I am just not destined to understand. 

 

Yep.  That summarizes it.  A man is a person who identifies as a man.  That's the extent of it.  It doesn't matter if it doesn't 'make sense' to you.  If a person says that they are a man because that's how they identify, then they're a man.  It's that simple.  Stop trying to complicate it and you will be able to understand.

[Taleroth]

Krem is a man who has trouble peeing while standing up, which places him in good company.

[KainD]

Yep.  That summarizes it.  A man is a person who identifies as a man.  That's the extent of it.  It doesn't matter if it doesn't 'make sense' to you.  If a person says that they are a man because that's how they identify, then they're a man.  It's that simple.  Stop trying to complicate it and you will be able to understand.

 

Can I identify as a gay man and have exclusively straight sex? Can identify as a vegan and eat meat? 

Or here's an even better one: can I identify as a black or an asian person while I am white? 

[daveliam]

Can I identify as a gay man and have exclusively straight sex? Can identify as a vegan and eat meat? 

Or here's an even better one: can I identify as a black or an asian person while I am white? 

 

Identify however you want.  I genuinely don't care.  And I suspect you will have less stress if you stop caring how other people identify as well.

[KainD]

Identify however you want.  I genuinely don't care.  And I suspect you will have less stress if you stop caring how other people identify as well.

 

So basically ones identity is not who they are, but what they think of themselves? 

[daveliam]

So basically ones identity is not who they are, but what they think of themselves? 

 

That's how I've always viewed identity.  If someone says that their skin color, gender, upbringing, whatever, aren't part of their identity, who am I to argue with them? 

[Xilizhra]

Can I identify as a gay man and have exclusively straight sex?

By your standards, yes, if you're exclusively having sex with Krem.

 

Are you aromantic? Do you just not generally feel romantically attracted to people? This might be at the root of a lot of it, because someone who's only emotionally attracted to women is seriously unlikely to be fulfilled by Krem.

[KainD]

Are you aromantic? Do you just not generally feel romantically attracted to people? This might be at the root of a lot of it, because someone who's only emotionally attracted to women is seriously unlikely to be fulfilled by Krem.

 

No, I would say that affection for ones character does indeed improve sex. But without the right body parts sex cannot happen for me in the first place. 

See if it wasn't for sex, I wouldn't care whether to date a man or a woman, it would be irrelevant, what would matter would be their character. But since I am interested in sex I go for women, and I am still interested in their character, just not to a demisexual point. 

 

I wish we were Asari lol, everything would be so much more simple. 

[Xilizhra]

No, I would say that affection for ones character does indeed improve sex. But without the right body parts sex cannot happen for me in the first place. 

See if it wasn't for sex, I wouldn't care whether to date a man or a woman, it would be irrelevant, what would matter would be their character. But since I am interested in sex I go for women, and I am still interested in their character, just not to a demisexual point. 

 

I wish we were Asari lol, everything would be so much more simple. 

So, no futas for you, I take it?

[KainD]

So, no futas for you, I take it?

 

Definitely not. 

[TheJediSaint]

And this is why I avoid trying to categorize people.