239 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

And this is why I avoid trying to categorize people.

 

Funny thing is, people love to categorize themselves. 

[TheJediSaint]

Funny thing is, people love to categorize themselves.

All the more reason not to do it for them.

[daveliam]

Funny thing is, people love to categorize themselves. 

 

It's one thing to categorize yourself.  It's another thing altogether to categorize someone else.  And it's a step even further removed to argue with someone about how they categorize themselves because you would categorize them differently.

[Xilizhra]

Definitely not. 

Everyone has different ideas of what they're attracted to, and it's up to the individual in question how to interpret that.

 

I consider myself lesbian due to only being attracted to women, but I'm fine with women who happen to have penises provided they look sufficiently feminine otherwise. It's possible that someone else who feels like I do would consider themselves bisexual. Who's right? Without an agreed-upon standard for all things related to sexual attraction, it'd have to be both, for each individual.

[Finnn62]

Is it gay if I only like men who have exclusively female genitals? Nevermind, this is kind of ridiculous. What I've gotten from this thread is what I always get after extended conversations on human sexuality: confused. People are very complex on so many spectrums (a personal favorite is the "radar chart of interpersonal attraction" though that's besides the point) that it's almost pointless to categorize them, but, true to form, humanity must place the world in neat little boxes. Respect people and try to live life as best you can regardless of how you fit in this mixed up world and it's all good, I guess. 

 

I suppose I've also learned in this thread that a romantic/sexual relationship with a pre-op trans-man is not likely to be something I could handle, regardless of how sexy I may find some of them… and that's okay   

Well, back to playing Inquisition again, I guess 

[KainD]

All the more reason not to do it for them.

 

My concern is more along the lines of - why complicate life with meaningless terms? 

 

It's like a person says: I am a man! 

And I go: OK, nice, but what does that mean? 

And the person goes: It means absolutely nothing other than that I am a man! 

And I go: Ok.. why don't we just delete the word ''man'' from the dictionary and address each other as ''people''? 

[KainD]

It's one thing to categorize yourself.  It's another thing altogether to categorize someone else.  And it's a step even further removed to argue with someone about how they categorize themselves because you would categorize them differently.

 

I'm just trying to use common dictionary and common sense. I don't want to live in a world where everybody speaks a completely different language and means completely different things when saying the same words, that's very hard.. 

[TheJediSaint]

My concern is more along the lines of - why complicate life with meaningless terms?

It's like a person says: I am a man!
And I go: OK, nice, but what does that mean?
And the person goes: It means absolutely nothing other than that I am a man!
And I go: Ok.. why don't we just delete the word ''man'' from the dictionary and address each other as ''people''?

Semantics bore me.

[daveliam]

I'm just trying to use common dictionary and common sense. I don't want to live in a world where everybody speaks a completely different language and means completely different things when saying the same words, that's very hard.. 

 

But that's the world that we live in and it's been that way since humans have had written language (and likely predates that back as long as we've had spoken language).  Life is confusing.  And it's ultimately why I take the "Who cares why someone identifies the way the do?  If they say that they are a man, works for me!" approach.  I like to learn about people's thoughts and opinions, but if it starts to create dissonance with me (demisexuality in particular is a difficult one for me to wrap my brain around), I just accept it at face value because I'm trusting that the people who self identify that way know what they are talking about.

[KainD]

Everyone has different ideas of what they're attracted to, and it's up to the individual in question how to interpret that.

 

I consider myself lesbian due to only being attracted to women, but I'm fine with women who happen to have penises provided they look sufficiently feminine otherwise. It's possible that someone else who feels like I do would consider themselves bisexual. Who's right? Without an agreed-upon standard for all things related to sexual attraction, it'd have to be both, for each individual.

 

So are you going to be offended if I call you a bisexual? For example. 

[KainD]

But that's the world that we live in and it's been that way since humans have had written language (and likely predates that back as long as we've had spoken language).  Life is confusing.  And it's ultimately why I take the "Who cares why someone identifies the way the do?  If they say that they are a man, works for me!" approach.  I like to learn about people's thoughts and opinions, but if it starts to create dissonance with me (demisexuality in particular is a difficult one for me to wrap my brain around), I just accept it at face value because I'm trusting that the people who self identify that way know what they are talking about.

 

I care about my interactions with people. When we can't find common words to understand each other it makes communication difficult. Sometimes it matters a lot, as an example when you start to build a romantic relationship that you want to involve sex. 

[Xilizhra]

So are you going to be offended if I call you a bisexual? For example. 

Well, I'm not attracted to men, so I'd have to ask why.

If you wish to be as precise as humanly possible, you could say "homoromantic, bisexual in regards to genitals while homosexual for all other body parts," but I don't see why that couldn't fall into the lesbian spectrum.

[daveliam]

Well, I'm not attracted to men, so I'd have to ask why.

If you wish to be as precise as humanly possible, you could say "homoromantic, bisexual in regards to genitals while homosexual for all other body parts," but I don't see why that couldn't fall into the lesbian spectrum.

 

Sometimes simple is the way to go!

[KainD]

Well, I'm not attracted to men, so I'd have to ask why.

If you wish to be as precise as humanly possible, you could say "homoromantic, bisexual in regards to genitals while homosexual for all other body parts," but I don't see why that couldn't fall into the lesbian spectrum.

 

Well because people in this thread say that lesbians identify as women. 

 

Just imagine for example that this guy find you attractive and tries to flirt with you:

Spoiler

He identifies as a straight male ( he actually does btw, it's not just a random picture ), so if you tell him that you are a lesbian then you turn him down. 

What if you will love his personality? 

[Xilizhra]

Well because people in this thread say that lesbians identify as women. 

 

Just imagine for example that this guy find you attractive and tries to flirt with you:

Spoiler

He identifies as a straight male ( he actually does btw, it's not just a random picture ), so if you tell him that you are a lesbian then you turn him down. 

What if you will love his personality? 

I may greatly enjoy the personality of, say, Anders, but I won't be attracted to the personality of a man. It's nearly as hardcoded as your feelings on genitals.

[Slappy Ya Face]

A woman who wants to be treated as a male. 

[KainD]

I may greatly enjoy the personality of, say, Anders, but I won't be attracted to the personality of a man. It's nearly as hardcoded as your feelings on genitals.

 

What does it mean a personality of a man? Every man is very different. 

[Xilizhra]

What does it mean a personality of a man? Every man is very different. 

Maybe "identity" would be a better word. To perceive someone as a man is to feel no attraction to them, for me.

[KainD]

Maybe "identity" would be a better word. To perceive someone as a man is to feel no attraction to them, for me.

 

So basically you meet this guy that I showed beforehand, but he introduces himself to you with a feminine pronoun instead, and you are good to go? Keep in mind nothing else changed. 

[MKDAWUSS]

Funny thing is, people love to categorize themselves. 

And psychologists love to categorize others

[KainD]

And psychologists love to categorize others

 

Of course it's their job. 

[daveliam]

So basically you meet this guy that I showed beforehand, but he introduces himself to you with a feminine pronoun instead, and you are good to go? Keep in mind nothing else changed. 

 

His identity would have changed.  Instead of identifying as a man, she would now identify as a woman.  That's a significant change. 

 

Imagine this:  That same person meets you and you enjoy her personality. She has female genitals.  Now, that same person meets you and you still enjoy her personality.  Now she has male genitals.  Would you be good to go?  Keep in mind nothing else changed.

[celebrei]

She's a woman. I didn't know at first, so I tought she was a little kid.

Ditto.

[KainD]

His identity would have changed.  Instead of identifying as a man, she would now identify as a woman.  That's a significant change. 

 

Imagine this:  That same person meets you and you enjoy her personality. She has female genitals.  Now, that same person meets you and you still enjoy her personality.  Now she has male genitals.  Would you be good to go?  Keep in mind nothing else changed.

 

I actually understand exactly what you are saying, but this is ridiculous. You are actually weighting concepts made by language and interpretation vs actual physical differences. 

 

I do not even identify in a way that Xil for example does, at ALL. I have no such need. For all intents an purposes if Xil asked me whether I am a man or a woman in a way that she perceives it I would say neither. 

[daveliam]

I actually understand exactly what you are saying, but this is ridiculous. You are actually weighting concepts made by language and interpretation vs actual physical differences. 

 

I do not even identify in a way that Xil for example does, at ALL. I have no such need. 

 

I take Xil's word for it that it matters to her.  The same way that I take your word for it that physical sex matters to you.

 

I know how I identify, but I can only take other people at face value about how they identify and what makes them tick.  If you want me to believe that a woman with a penis is a deal breaker for you, then I should also believe that a man with a vagina is a deal breaker for Xil.