Not one person asked why Cory need Divine Justinia for a sacrifice?
This is one of the main questions people should be asking, as it directly lead to the plot of the entire game. If there's no good reason, then it's one of the worst cases of storytelling I've ever seen, and even if there is an answer it's still not great.
This is one of the main questions people should be asking, as it directly lead to the plot of the entire game. If there's no good reason, then it's one of the worst cases of storytelling I've ever seen, and even if there is an answer it's still not great.
The first time the magisters opened a gate to the Black City it required tons of sacrifices and lyrium. Maybe the spell Corypheus was using in this game required a sacrifice of someone exceptionally holy.
This is one of the main questions people should be asking, as it directly lead to the plot of the entire game. If there's no good reason, then it's one of the worst cases of storytelling I've ever seen, and even if there is an answer it's still not great.
I'm guessing Corypheus didn't need her for the sacrifice- he wanted her for it. What better way to begin his ascendancy to godhood? The Divine represents the status quo in Southern Thedas, and using her to fuel his ascent would have been powerfully symbolic, and heartrendingly so to the Chantry faithful who were in attendance at the Conclave. I mean, look at how quickly things got to **** simply because she was killed. Had he succeeded, he could have taken her body to the Conclave, shown them all what he had done, and tell them that he used her blood to breach the Fade, and that the Maker did nothing to stop him.
Basically, the Inquisitor not only wrecked his plans and stole the anchor, they also ruined what could have been a pretty sweet burn on the Maker. The gall.
There's actually a tweet from one of the devs about Leliana being the divine and
romancing the Hero of Fereldan... Basically the HOF will be a dirty little secret,
then an open secret, and the she'll change the rules about divines being celibate
After playing DAI, there are just so many things going on wrong in the game and I hope someone here can clarify the situation for me. So if anyone needs some explaining done by all means, please put your questions in this thread.
1. The game mentioned ALL the Wardens in Ferelden and Orlais went missing because of Corypheus faking the Calling. However, the Inquisitor met King Alistair in Redcliffe looking fine as usual. He didn’t even mention whether he heard the Calling or where the other Wardens went even if he refused Clarel’s plan (that’s assuming if Clarel ever called on the King to carry out his duty as a Grey Warden).
2.Leliana and Cassandra mentioned that the Hero of Ferelden went missing. (Odd how that happens when the Warden romanced Leliana and did not tell her what he/she is up to…)During a conversation with the spymaster, it turns out that the Hero of Ferelden is on a quest to stop the Calling in a land far west, “a land that have never known the Blight”. How is that considered “missing” when she knows what the Warden is up to? It’s like Varric lying about Hawke’s whereabouts to keep him safe and I’d doubt that she would lie about her Warden’s whereabouts.
And seriously… “a land that have never known the Blight”? How can a cure for the Calling end up in a place that hasn’t seen Darkspawn before?
3.Moreover, the end of the world is coming. The Hero of Ferelden’s quest to stop the Calling at a time like this seemed like a ridiculous idea, don’t you think? If Corypheus ever succeeded in tearing the blighted world apart, prolonging one’s life seems to be the least of the Warden’s problem. Stroud/Alistair manage to resist Corypheus in the end so why not the Hero of Ferelden as well? Clarel wasn’t possessed and neither is Stroud/Alistair. As Warden-Commander of Ferelden, shouldn’t he/she, I don’t know, get a piece of the action as well? People running around fighting for their lives, helping the Inquisition to restore order and what the Hero of Ferelden did to help? Nothing. So much for being the “Hero” of Ferelden…
4.Another question that comes to mind is, can a Grey Warden who is cured of the Calling still hear the Archdemon or sense the Darkspawn? Can Grand Enchanter Fiona still hear Corypheus’ fake Calling and warn the Inquisition perhaps? In DAI, it is stated that the Wardens are still needed to kill an Archdemon (I assume it’s because of the taint in them) and by doing so, he/she who takes the final blow will die. After all, the Calling is just the taint taking over a Warden’s soul.
My theory is that even with traces of the Calling gone, the taint will still be there but it will only be dormant. Otherwise, curing the Calling seems to contradict the purpose of needing Grey Wardens to end the Blight.
5.If she was romanced in Origins, Leliana will still become the Divine in DAI(if the player allows this). Whatever happened to “I will join him/her for good this time”? After defeating Corypheus, Leliana will also say that her place “is and always will be with the Inquisition” (or something like that…). The Warden’s effort to stop the Calling seemed futile at this point because he/she did it just to be with their lover for a little longer. Dang it...
6.In the Awakening’s epilogue, the Hero of Ferelden will step down as the Warden-Commander and never seen setting foot in Vigil’s Keep again. In DAI, upon completion of the quest “Contacting the Hero of Ferelden”, the Warden still has the title of Warden-Commander. Andraste’s flaming knickers, what’s going on here??
There could be more but these will do. For now.
1. Well, he may as well have felt the Calling, it's just we know nothing about it. And him no longer being with the Grey Wardens probably meant he knew nothing about their dealings with Cory, so during this whole ordeal he was just probably: "Aw, ****! The Calling!...no wait, it's gone now, how weird".
2. That one is weird, I agree. Leliana and Cassandra were specifically looking for the HoF before going for Hawke. Her knowing his wereabouts does sound iffy. I didn't romance her, so her knowing where HoF is in DA:I for me can probably be explained that she learned about it later. But I've no explanation for romanced Leliana.
3. HoF was probably too far away when the Concalve went kaboom and didn't know anything about Cory and what was going until Leliana contacted him/her. So he\she was probably in the same boat as Alistair: "Aw, ****! The Calling!...no wait, it's gone now, how weird". 
4. Fiona's taint is gone completely. Lucky ******.
5. It was said in one of the devs tweets that she'll bend the rules for HoF to be with her if she becomes Divine. So I don't see a problem here.
6. If nothing else, it's just an honorific title now.
Dunno about those, but I have one... who told you about the Problem in Redcliffe when you are in Val Royeaux? It looks like Fiona, but Fiona insists it couldn't have been her. Did I miss the answer to this?
It was the time shift. She visits you in Val Royeaux, before the Tevinter shift time to take over the mages. For you she was there, for her, she never was, though, as she states, she feels a bit odd.
This is one of the main questions people should be asking, as it directly lead to the plot of the entire game. If there's no good reason, then it's one of the worst cases of storytelling I've ever seen, and even if there is an answer it's still not great.
Symbolic sacrifice, and it also destroys a large group that would resist, plus, it has the added benefit of greatly impacting the resolve and morale of any resistance, and queliing the potential for an organized resistance. Thus, where you come in.
This is one of the main questions people should be asking, as it directly lead to the plot of the entire game. If there's no good reason, then it's one of the worst cases of storytelling I've ever seen, and even if there is an answer it's still not great.
I always though he wanted her to be the sacrifice because of an attempt at some sort of petty revenge. Kinda like "How dare you believe in a religion that caused tevinters downfall." I don't see Cory as a super genius villain more of an arrogant idiot with a ton of power.
if you leave the grey warden in the fade and save hawke instead
and then you sent cory to the fade
what happens?
does cory possess the trapped warden since he jumps to the nearest tainted body?
If you have completed Cassandra's personal quest (about looking for the missing Lord Seeker Lucius), you will also find out from a dying Seeker recruit that the Lord Seeker Lucius you saw in Val Royeaux wasn't the real Lord Seeker. I assume the same goes for Fiona in this case.
Yes, but the question is who were they? Just random mages in disguise?
Aliens... aliens everywhere !!!
J/K. I agree with op and to be honest many of these contradictions just drove me crazy, especially the ones concerning Leliana. One times she says that the most important people in her life was the warden, but then she left him/her to became Justinis'a left hand and explains how she was totally devoted to her.
She says that all that she wants to do after the end is to go back to the warden in order to enjoy their life togheter but then she is ready to become the Divine. She should really make up her mind!!
And seriously… “a land that have never known the Blight”? How can a cure for the Calling end up in a place that hasn’t seen Darkspawn before?
I completely agree with you that whether or not King Alistair was hearing Corypheus call (like all of the other Wardens) clearly should have been addressed in this game and therefore this is a major plot hole. However, some of your other comments skew close to nitpicking. The portion of your post that I quoted is another matter.
Any land that has never known the Blight seems like EXACTLY the kind of place where a cure for the Calling might be located, and that certainly would be worth exploring if only to determine how that place had avoided experiencing such age-old terror. Definitely a great endeavor for the Hero of Ferelden [aka Warden-Commander] to pursue!
I'm guessing Corypheus didn't need her for the sacrifice- he wanted her for it. What better way to begin his ascendancy to godhood? The Divine represents the status quo in Southern Thedas, and using her to fuel his ascent would have been powerfully symbolic, and heartrendingly so to the Chantry faithful who were in attendance at the Conclave. I mean, look at how quickly things got to **** simply because she was killed. Had he succeeded, he could have taken her body to the Conclave, shown them all what he had done, and tell them that he used her blood to breach the Fade, and that the Maker did nothing to stop him.
Basically, the Inquisitor not only wrecked his plans and stole the anchor, they also ruined what could have been a pretty sweet burn on the Maker. The gall.
That's one thing I liked about that, it's totally possible to play the inquisitor as believing that Maker did intervene. Corypheus is about to kill Justinia and right at the critical moment they interrupt and foil his plans handily. One heck of a coincidence, that.
I thought the "time magic is breaking reality" hand-wave dealt with paradoxes about as well as it can be - they do exist, they're acknowledged, and in virtue of existing they threaten existence.
Nah, the idea of something happening which has actually been undone due to changes in time is just too bizarre for me. Saying that it threatens reality doesn't make up for the fact that it's too implausible to happen in the first place, and yes I understand that we're talking about a world with darkspawn, the Fade, magic, etc... xD Of course, if a story simply must include or be based on time travel, then I'll agree that an acknowledging handwave is a good enough explanation... If time travel is involved, I'm going to dislike the story nine times out of ten, no matter what else the author comes up with. Beyond that, there's so there's no point in being overly critical of the details.
It was the time shift. She visits you in Val Royeaux, before the Tevinter shift time to take over the mages. For you she was there, for her, she never was, though, as she states, she feels a bit odd.
See, this is what I'm talking about. Just reading this makes my head hurt, and it seems like an accurate explanation for the events presented in the game. Bah.
1. Not all the wardens in the world hear corypheus's fake calling... in the novel the last flight, it was only the orlesian wardens who disappeared, not the aderfels, free marches, or ferelden's wardens.... As stroud, warden alistair, and warden loghain are all stationed in orlais it would make sense they would be affected as they are in close contact... This dates back even to the legacy dlc, corypheus's "calling" only affected those in short proximity to him. As for the whole control thing in general, corypheus could only control the mages who had bound demons and regular wardens who had demons bound to them by mages, clarel was not being controlled as she didnt bind a demon yet, her and the rest of the regular wardens were being manipulated by their own fears... This makes it clarel's decision to do this, not corypheus's orders. Which made me wonder why would clarel not consult weisshaupt about this... then it made sense that someone, whether it be venatori or whoever, was probably intercepting any attempts at contact made, as in the novel the last flight it was referenced that weisshaupts messengers never returned and they never got any messages from the orlesian wardens.
2. while strange, we forget that the warden took off to find morrigan after the events of awakening, which could take place anywhere from immediately after killing the mother in 9:31 dragon or it could be down the line when he leaves vigil's keep for good, which could have been around the end of da2. Now if he just up and left vigil's keep around da2 and leliana was working for the divine, it could be possible that he disappeared without telling her to find morrigan at which point varric's interrogation ended, in which leliana would have no clue how to get a hold of him cause he didnt tell her he was leaving... And when they go to the conclave, he could have contacted her telling her what happened and how to contact him from that point. Or magic, take your pick. As for a land that has never known the blight... well, its possible... we know that tevinter, orlais, the anderfels, the free marches, antiva, rivain, nevara, and ferelden have all experienced the blight in some fashion... that just leaves, seheron, llomeryn, par vollen, and the donnarks that we know of... so technically when she says has never known the blight, it might mean that its a country that hasnt had one yet.
3. the warden isnt contacted about the stuff going on until mid game... now im sure ignoring the big green hole in the sky isnt a good idea, but if you think about it... hes in an unknown land sees the sky open, then starts to head that way... it takes forever to frickin travel in old timey conditions... so start heading toward green hole, after a few weeks hole closes... ok waste of time... leliana tells him wtf is going on, ok time to head back, right before you return, sh*t is over.... yeah waste of time for him to back off his quest just to not be there for anything, when the one person who can do anything (inquisitor) is already there and doing a good job of fixing things.... if anything you should be asking wtf hawke was thinking going to weisshaupt while corypheus is still at f*cking large.
4. Fiona's taint is completely gone, its what got her booted from the wardens... and it wasnt normal taint either, in the novel the calling the architect had slipped the party some unknown items that accelerated the taint in them, duncan was only ok, cause he stole a dagger that stopped that acceleration... Fiona was cured via demonic possession and then being released from it, kind of like what we did to connor and what happened to pharrimond in asunder. interesting thought though, the taint seems to have a relation with spirits and or magic.
5. Really, this argument is insane... People can change their minds, especially when leliana realizes that she wants to be divine... when she tells you she is going to join the warden for good, it is very early game and her character is feeling that whatever she does is meaningless and that it would be best to join the warden... However, when she gets the idea of being divine, at first she doesn't like it, but a few conversations and she warms up to the idea and gets all sorts of ideas.... she changed her mind, simple answer.
6. He stepped down to continue his journeys, however he still holds a rank in the wardens in good standing, so technically he may have resigned from his station, but he didnt resign from his rank as an officer.
1. Sadly, just stop trying to make Alistair make sense. He doesn't. He's a ravager-blooded templar grey warden who succeeds in spite of himself. Just call this one 'magic!' and walk away.
2. It is entirely possible that the spymaster to the Divine was lying when she said her true love was missing, just like Varric lied about Hawke. Alternately, she didn't know at the time, and found out later.
3. If the Warden left before the current troubles, and we know they did, they probably aren't in a position to return in a timely fashion.
4. You've got nothing but baseless speculation here regarding your 'dormant but not gone' theory. She's cured. It's gone. She's not a Grey Warden anymore.
5. Lil's entire character arc has her learning to put others before herself. Her taking on the responsibility of being the Divine is just the culmination of that arc.
6. My father retired from the army, and people still address him as 'Colonel'. It's a measure of respect for past achievements.
*1: Alistair is better served as a drunk "Choice from DAK"
*3: Whats up with fast travel 
.
Why did corypheus even need justinia to power the ancor? She's just an ordinary human right? I'd assume he would need a powerful mage or a dragon to power the ancor
I don't know how often I've said this:
Possibilility 1:
The Fade reflects people's beliefs. Justinia was invested with all the faith of her followers, which gives her an extreme symbolic significance. She would cast a large shadow in the Fade, and thus, her sacrifice is magically more significant than just anyone's.
Possibility 2:
He could've used anyone, but using Justinia would throw the Chantry into chaos and that's good for him from a strategic viewpoint.
Possibility 3:
He used Justinia because she represents a rival, namely the Maker.
1. The addition of a single line of dialogue concerning the Calling affecting King Alistair in Redcliffe would have easily covered this gaffe. He could have appeared to act distracted for a moment or even made a humorous remark about dreams or a headache even?
2. You are wrong on this one. I mean… “a land that have never known the Blight” might be the exact place where a cure for the Calling could be located? Such a place would have some means in existence that afforded a degree of protection; right?
3. The Hero of Ferelden’s quest to stop the Calling cares jack crap about what else may be going on in the world. The HoF knows how to focus on the big picture!
4. Why would you believe that a Grey Warden who is cured of the Calling would still hear the Archdemon or sense the Darkspawn in its absence?
5. There is a degree of agency as to who becomes the Divine in DAI. Doesn’t have to be Leliana, so make sure that one of the other candidates gets the nod; easy fix!
6. C’mon man, so the Hero of Ferelden continues to be referred to as Warden-Commander. Big deal! Watch any evening broadcast news channel and count how many former Generals serve as commentators these days. Titles are honorariums!
I was a bit puzzled back in Legacy why the Warden leadership didn't fill their other members in a bit better on the dangers of Corypheus. They must have locked him up for a reason, partly his control over mages but also likely the fact that they found they couldn't kill him. So his prison was breached, which ought to have fed back to them eventually, wouldn't alarm bells start ringing?
Also I find it hard to fathom why all the Wardens in Orlais simultaneously hearing the Calling didn't strike anyone as odd and then they all "panicked" and decided the best solution to this problem was to raise a demon army and go in search of archdemons. Unless that Venatori guy was lying, he maintain the decision to raise the army was done entirely of their own free will. Only once they had done so was Cory going to take control of them, like the Venatori did with the trial group in the Western Approach.
Also why exiling them while we dealt with the threat of Corypheus would not be the naturally logical thing to do given the nature of his threat and the fact that we were helpfully told they would still be at risk. I never said it had to be permanent, although that is apparently what both the decision to capitalise on the situation and the epilogue assumed. For writers who pride themselves on grey decisions, the assumptions implied over this decision seemed very black and white to me. Keeping the Grey Wardens around while Cory was still a threat would have been stupid; I'm not stupid.
On the HoF, he could allready way before this whas happening been on his way, on his mission. Its hard to contact him, its not like he gets a whatsapp from Leliana with status updates. Would take to long to go back and do something. And he is doing the Wardens a huge favor read- a HUGE quest!
And maybe they all cured the lands from the blight over in the West? We dont know what there is/who there is, what they know of what kinda magic/technolegy their using and so on.
I'm guessing Corypheus didn't need her for the sacrifice- he wanted her for it. What better way to begin his ascendancy to godhood? The Divine represents the status quo in Southern Thedas, and using her to fuel his ascent would have been powerfully symbolic, and heartrendingly so to the Chantry faithful who were in attendance at the Conclave. I mean, look at how quickly things got to **** simply because she was killed. Had he succeeded, he could have taken her body to the Conclave, shown them all what he had done, and tell them that he used her blood to breach the Fade, and that the Maker did nothing to stop him.
Basically, the Inquisitor not only wrecked his plans and stole the anchor, they also ruined what could have been a pretty sweet burn on the Maker. The gall.
Possibility 2:
He could've used anyone, but using Justinia would throw the Chantry into chaos and that's good for him from a strategic viewpoint.
Isn't this stated as the reason? Like, by several people over the course of the game?
1. About King Alistair hearing the Calling. Didn't they say only the Wardens in Orlais were hearing it?
3. Well, in my headcanon, while all the stuff with Corypheus was going on, wherever my Warden was at, she was helping protect villages she passed through from demons coming from the rifts for a while, but not entirely stopping her search for the cure to the Calling. I found it down right comical when I talked to Morrigan about HoF and she said something like "This is exactly the type of stuff she would involve herself in, you should contact her ASAP" and I was like, "Yeah, this is the type of stuff I would get involved in!! Where am I??" LOL.
4. Okay, I've seen the Architect brought up a few times, but did everyone forget Avernus? Grey Warden Alistair even mentions him. Avernus is nearly or already over 200 years old. He was alive/born in the Storm Age which is the 7th century, every age is 100 years, and we are now in the Dragon Age 9:41, 9:30 when you meet him in Warden's Keep. I only played that DLC once and have been meaning to replay it so yeah I don't recall very well... but I don't think he ever explains how he's survived that long even though he is a Grey Warden. I think if anything, we just need to get Avernus and the Architect together in one room and see what happens. In fact, there's a codex/letter found on a dead body, in DAII from Avernus.
The limitations put upon my research have greatly hampered progress. With just a few subjects, I could test certain critical hypotheses. However, the information sent about the Architect has proven invaluable to my efforts, and I am pleased to report limited success. As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.
But my research has also revealed some alarming implications, which I've attached in the old Acanthan cipher. I urge you to send this to the First Warden at once.
I will conduct further tests as long as I'm able. My documentation is very thorough—if time finally claims me, others may follow in my footsteps.
No restrictions: The last shipment was quite helpful for my research, Commander. If you could double the supply next time, it would prove most efficacious. Additionally, the information regarding the Architect has proven invaluable—we have made several breakthroughs recently. As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.
Could it be foreshadowing? If alive, does Avernus have a hand in setting out our hero on a quest to the end the Calling? Honestly, given Bioware's track record, I feel like they just threw that WT mission in just so we could hear a little something from our Wardens and letting us know they're still alive and well. I feel like 99% they won't do an actual DLC about it and just write it off in future games, and 1% I believe they will do it if only because of the enormous speculation and fan desire that it will be a DLC. People expected a lot with Kieran, look what happened... nothing. lol
6. Okay, the Warden-Commander title thing... There was one big inconsistency I noticed. Everyone here knows about how if you choose Lord Harrowmont to become Orzammar's king(and not side with Branka), I believe it said he died a few years later, right? I think a few years is at max, 5. Imagine my surprise when I get a War Table mission from him and I'm 
All types of confused, and it made me question how far into the future did the Epilogue actually go? 10 years after the end of Origins, and Harrowmont is still alive, I was like wtf... I thought my keep imported wrong or something. But I was actually kind of happy too, because in the Origins epilogue where it said he died, I felt like it was wasted effort putting him on the throne (although I now realize he is a bad king for Orzammar), so I was happy to see he managed 10 years.
So yeah, I was not surprised when the letter at the end was signed Warden-Commander. Why would any of our wardens give up the seat after only 10 years? I'm actually surprised that people are confused by this, I barely even noticed the title lol. Also, a little bit in regards to #2. I thought it strange for the HoF to be missing too. Especially in DA2, when I went to meet King Alistair, at the end of the convo, Teagan says "The Hero of Ferelden should be back in Denerim by now" and Alistair says "Do you always have to be so formal? She has a name, you know." So in my head, Alistair and Teagan know where I am and I'm apparently chilling out in Denerim, especially makes sense since CE Warden. So end of DA2/start of DAI, HoF suddenly disappears... um, wut? Also, in my game, where I romanced King Alistair, I got the Contact HoF mission from Morrigan. How the hell does Morrigan know where I am? I tried to kill her in Witch Hunt...
Also time travel thing. I thought that was immensely stupid because I remember clearly, in DAO or DA2, maybe both, there was a codex that explained there was no such thing as teleportation magic. OH, BUT IT'S OKAY FOR TIME TRAVEL MAGIC TO EXIST, RIGHT?????? I still enjoyed the mission though, especially cuz Dorian... 
Oooh, off topic but it just came to me, that since the Eluvians are now revealed as portals, does that mean Tamlen could be alive somewhere? Just a random thought, probably for another topic though, but my mind wanders a lot...
Another thing I'd like to know is... where is the Architect? I've heard the choices made in Awakening will have an impact in DAI but there's no sign of him at all .(that is if you spared him of course...) With all this Darkspawn-related issues going on I'm surprised the Architect sat at the sidelines throughout the entire game. The Architect seemed pretty intent on severing the connection between the Darkspawn and the Archdemon's Calling after all. Or are the devs are planning to launch more DLCs to supplement the storyline in the future?
Um...my guess with the data collected the majority killed The Architect. They aren't going to devote resources if the majority killed him
The first time the magisters opened a gate to the Black City it required tons of sacrifices and lyrium. Maybe the spell Corypheus was using in this game required a sacrifice of someone exceptionally holy.
Or someone who has a high amount of magical power.
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