176 réponses à ce sujet

[fizzypop]

Dunno about those, but I have one... who told you about the Problem in Redcliffe when you are in Val Royeaux? It looks like Fiona, but Fiona insists it couldn't have been her. Did I miss the answer to this?

My guess for this is that she did, but the guy who changed the timeline (alexius?) made that particular event not happen. You as a player experience that event, but since Alexius "reversed" time she did not. As far as I know that time wrap was local to the area so it didn't effect you.

My second guess would be that Alexius did it to bait you and it wasn't really Fiona.

[SimonTheFrog]

Not sure if this has been discussed before but i couldn't find it:

 

How are "souls" treated in DA anyway? Appearantly there are souls that wander somewhere other than fade. I remember NPC's talking about that.

So, if the warden's and the archdemon/old god's souls clash, does that mean the soul gets deleted or just pushed out of the body? Because, IF there is a place for the soul to go, then a deletion sounds like a very cruel fate.

[Arakat]

Indeed, it made little sense to me. I think Bioware were trying to make out like the Grey Warden's were bad because they had secrets and all that stuff but for us, the people that played as a Grey Warden, saw the Grey Warden's betrayed and then united forces to defeat the Archdemon, we are going to think nothing but good things of these people. Look at the way even the companions react to the Wardens in this game, they are being manipulated by the Fear demon so do desperate things, tricked by a Magister and some are under Coryface control, the companions make out like their are all doing it on their own and we should exile them for being evil. Rubbish.

 

They are there to save the world when it goes crazy and people don't like that? They have their secrets because they need to keep the main population's mind at ease. I overheard a NPC at Skyhold say (in a condicending way) "Grey Warden's and their secrets.", all I could think was 'Shut up, random NPC, I was a Warden once and you don't know ****.'

 

(Of course I'm ignoring in reality it's only 1 secret, their special drink, which everyone seems to oddly know about...I mean what other secrets are there?)

 

Uh, well, they don't tell their recruits they're going to die prematurely (unless they want to turn into ghouls) and that they'll likely never have children. Also, broodmothers. That's a nice surprise for female recruits. Trust me, my Warden definitely didn't think "nothing but good" of the order. She went kicking and screaming the whole way, and yet even she did some questionable things all in the name of stopping the Blight. The Wardens were never a heroic order.

[Fireheart]

Here's something that confuses me... Why does Varric call Cullen 'curly'?

[Captmorgan72]

if you leave the grey warden in the fade and save hawke instead

 

and then you sent cory to the fade

 

what happens?

does cory possess the trapped warden since he jumps to the nearest tainted body? 

Yes, if you leave a Warden behind, you just gave Corypheus exactly what he wanted. He will resurrect himself with the taint left over by the Warden and become corporeal within the Fade.

[Lady Elsa]

Here's something that confuses me... Why does Varric call Cullen 'curly'?

Because his DA2 design had him with curly 'noodle' hair;) Lelliana and Josephine tease him about doing something with his hair during war-table banter.

[AnsinJung]

For the Hero of Fereldan stuff... unfortunately I think the answer is simply that they can't have that character make an appearance because the character doesn't have a voice. But, to avoid further plotholes, they have to make is so the character is far enough away where they wouldn't be affected by Cory and wouldn't have as much of an incentive to come stop him.

 

I dislike it. I've always disliked the epilogue stuff about the Warden where they simply say "he/she just disappeared." This has never made any sense at all to me. Why would my Warden, who is the Queen of Fereldan and a Warden-Commander just disappear and go off on some quest to stop the calling? Doesn't she have obligations as Queen or Warden-Commander? 

 

It would make more sense for the Warden to come help out with Cory. It seems like they would be much more concerned about stopping the breach than finding an cure for the calling. But, the same could be said for Hawke running off to Weisshaupt after Adament. Seems like Hawke would rather stay and help stop Cory as opposed to playing messenger. 

 

I'm pretty certain that if the Warden did have a voice, then they would make an appearance in the game (probably would have been Hawke's warden friend). It's a shame that adds constraints with the addition of the warden in future games. 

 

After two default DAI characters, I figured out the Dragon Age Keep and began wondering if Hawke's warden friend might be the Hero of Ferelden rather than Stroud, which at the time induced several nerd chills, thinking I'd have to choose between either main character.  It was cruel but I also loved the anticipation.  But then Stroud showed up again, and I thought maybe the HoF would show up somewhere else--the Warden Commander of Orlais, lost in the Fade, who knows?  Then the painful Bioware reality kicked in--they're leaving the Hero essentially untouched again. 

 

From my view, I want more of the Warden, just pick a voice.  Some people will be turned off (and no, I'm not saying to retcon those that died), but bioware manages to do far worse things with practically every sequel anymore.  Bringing back the Warden would be one of their lesser mistakes at worst, and at best, something a  ton of people want, and something that makes sense.  At this point, however, you can have both Hawke and the Warden die, so you'd have to have an alternate that wasn't Hawke, which leaves either the Inquisitor, someone new, or someone who wasn't a main character before.  Probably Vincent Valentine. 

[Statare]

Not sure if this has been discussed before but i couldn't find it:

 

How are "souls" treated in DA anyway? Appearantly there are souls that wander somewhere other than fade. I remember NPC's talking about that.

So, if the warden's and the archdemon/old god's souls clash, does that mean the soul gets deleted or just pushed out of the body? Because, IF there is a place for the soul to go, then a deletion sounds like a very cruel fate.

 

The whole "souls canceling each other out" thing from DA:O may not be accurate. In DA:A we find out Darskawn can be awakened, and so might actually have souls. We also learn that a being can have two "souls" (Wynne, Anders, Flemeth) and that souls can't be forced upon the unwilling (Flemeth and Morrigan). So, there is probably more to it than the soul calculus the Wardens / Morrigan proposed in DA:O.

[Fireheart]

The whole "souls canceling each other out" thing from DA:O may not be accurate. In DA:A we find out Darskawn can be awakened, and so might actually have souls. We also learn that a being can have two "souls" (Wynne, Anders, Flemeth) and that souls can't be forced upon the unwilling (Flemeth and Morrigan). So, there is probably more to it than the soul calculus the Wardens / Morrigan proposed in DA:O.

Do those really count as souls though? I thought they were spirits, spirits aren't souls. And honestly, I think Bio just retconned so they could have an excuse to get rid of Urthemiel's soul, and make the ogs not canon.

[KCMeredith]

If curing the Calling means getting rid of Grey Warden abilities, then who will kill an Archdemon if the Blight ever happens? It's like putting an end to the order and the only people who can stop Blights are the Grey Wardens. With no one else to kill the Archdemon? I'd say the cure for the Calling is as worse as letting the Blight ravage all across Thedas unimpeded.

You hear the calling, you get the cure, you retire somewhere nice and let the other wardens handle things.

 

+If the HoF actually finds a way to completely cure the taint in the blood of wardens they could mass-recruit soldiers during a blight and just cure them afterwards.

[Dai Grepher]

Val Royeaux's Fiona was probably an envy demon. Maybe even THE envy demon. Which then leads to the question, did the real Fiona die in the attack against Haven?

 

I base this on how Fiona reacts to you saying that she invited them. She doesn't dismiss it outright, and in fact has a feeling that it might be possible. I think this is because she has a fragment of a memory of the envy demon copying her. If it were time magic then she would not have remembered anything, and she would have called you crazy for suggesting such a thing.

 

I know this because I recently glitched my way to the Gull and Lantern early before finding Mother Giselle. My solo rogue said the same lines he would have normally, and Fiona responded the same way she normally would, but for me this seemed really odd. Because I knew for a fact that my solo rogue had not even been to Val Royeaux, it seemed like a made up story to me, and it should have sounded that way to Fiona IF indeed she were affected by a change in the timeline.

 

But the storyline implies it was time travel that did this, as Alexius arrived 2 days after the conclave, even though this was impossible and "Fiona" met the Herald in Val Royeaux many days after the conclave. But if it was time travel, then we never should have met Fiona there to begin with. So, a plot hole, of course. Much like the rest of the mages arc.

[dixophilia]

The only question I have about the story is who in the world came out of the Well of Sorrows? It's clearly a human woman and that confuses me. It wouldn't make sense for that to be a young Flemeth and Mythal should be Elven. So, it's just... odd.

[Frybread76]

I don't know why Hawke would up and leave in the middle of the fight against Corypheus to go to Weisshaupt. Is he an honorary Grey Warden now? Another one of the Wardens couldn't be spared to brief the senior wardens about the events transpiring in the south? It strikes me as an odd move for someone who feels personally responsible for Coryfish.

[Uirebhiril]

The only question I have about the story is who in the world came out of the Well of Sorrows? It's clearly a human woman and that confuses me. It wouldn't make sense for that to be a young Flemeth and Mythal should be Elven. So, it's just... odd.

 

According to some tweets that was meant to be a more insubstantial figure and not easily recognizable as anything beyond a person shape. An oversight, rather than a puzzle.

[Fireheart]

Val Royeaux's Fiona was probably an envy demon. Maybe even THE envy demon. Which then leads to the question, did the real Fiona die in the attack against Haven?

 

I base this on how Fiona reacts to you saying that she invited them. She doesn't dismiss it outright, and in fact has a feeling that it might be possible. I think this is because she has a fragment of a memory of the envy demon copying her. If it were time magic then she would not have remembered anything, and she would have called you crazy for suggesting such a thing.

 

I know this because I recently glitched my way to the Gull and Lantern early before finding Mother Giselle. My solo rogue said the same lines he would have normally, and Fiona responded the same way she normally would, but for me this seemed really odd. Because I knew for a fact that my solo rogue had not even been to Val Royeaux, it seemed like a made up story to me, and it should have sounded that way to Fiona IF indeed she were affected by a change in the timeline.

 

But the storyline implies it was time travel that did this, as Alexius arrived 2 days after the conclave, even though this was impossible and "Fiona" met the Herald in Val Royeaux many days after the conclave. But if it was time travel, then we never should have met Fiona there to begin with. So, a plot hole, of course. Much like the rest of the mages arc.

I don't really understand what you're saying. If you glitched your way into the tavern, then of course your rogue and Fiona said their same lines? Because they're programmed to say those things in that exact situation? But this has already been addressed a number of times in this thread and others. It's a time paradox, and a plot hole. Thinking too much about it rots your brain. And to me, when Fiona appeared confused, it didn't seem to me as if she had a fragment of a memory, more like she's just wondering if it all slipped her mind and might seem possible, like maybe she just forgot, instead of thinking that she was possessed/copied by an envy demon.

[TheRevanchist]

Here lie spoilers for the callling

Spoiler

It's an amulet. They were supposed to conceal them from the darkspawn but it actaully accelerated the taint (only Duncan didnt wear it) but somehow for fiona it completely removed the taint from her and she's now immune to it

 

Fiona was also possessed by a Demon and became an abomination temporally and dragged the party into a Fade trap like the Sloth Demon. So yea...that might have had something to do with it...   

[Kantr]

Fiona was also possessed by a Demon and became an abomination temporally and dragged the party into a Fade trap like the Sloth Demon. So yea...that might have had something to do with it...   

she did? Man, I need to re-read

[TheRevanchist]

she did? Man, I need to re-read

 

Photographic Memory has it's advantages . 

[Dai Grepher]

I don't really understand what you're saying. If you glitched your way into the tavern, then of course your rogue and Fiona said their same lines? Because they're programmed to say those things in that exact situation? But this has already been addressed a number of times in this thread and others. It's a time paradox, and a plot hole. Thinking too much about it rots your brain. And to me, when Fiona appeared confused, it didn't seem to me as if she had a fragment of a memory, more like she's just wondering if it all slipped her mind and might seem possible, like maybe she just forgot, instead of thinking that she was possessed/copied by an envy demon.

 

I'm saying that having glitched my way past Val Royeaux I had a different perspective of the conversation in the Gull and the Lantern (meaning I hadn't met Fiona yet). From Fiona's perspective, and mine as well, the claim that the Herald met her in Val Royeaux and was invited to Redcliffe by her should have seemed absurd to Fiona, just as it did to me. It just seems to me Fiona should have been more skeptical to the claim. It would be like some stranger showing up and asking why you invited them there.

 

Just forgot traveling to Val Royeaux?
 

[Statare]

Do those really count as souls though? I thought they were spirits, spirits aren't souls. And honestly, I think Bio just retconned so they could have an excuse to get rid of Urthemiel's soul, and make the ogs not canon.

 

We don't have any definition for souls besides religious ones in DA, so until proven otherwise, I'm not sure soul and spirit are that different. Both are centered, at least temporarily, in the Fade (the land of the dead and spirits). Either way, I don't think the canceling out thing applies, especially when you consider how Corypheus can jump into the body of a Grey Warden with out his "soul" being canceled out. Likely how the Archedemon soul is dealt with when a Warden kills them is related to the Joining, which uses both lyrium and blood magic, both things often involved in the control/binding/banishing of spirits/demons.

[Dai Grepher]

How does it not apply? Loghain struck the final blow against the archdemon, and he died with it. He was fine right before that. So what killed him if not soul cancelation?

 

Cory's possession is a different matter. He's a magister, he has blood magic, and he's one of the original blighted. He has a stronger connection with the taint that the archdemons do, and the Grey Wardens get their resistance from the archdemons' blood. So really, when it's Grey Warden vs. Corypheus, the Grey Warden is a novice and Cory is a master. That's why Cory can control Wardens and put thoughts in their mind so they don't slay him.

 

It's possible that his soul transfer to a Grey Warden is because the Warden allows the possession, or even welcomes it. Again, because of the taint and Cory being able to influence the Warden's mind through it. This is compared to a Warden slaying an archdemon, where the Warden's soul actively fights against the archdemon's.

 

The taint is probably similar to Mythal's compulsion over the one who drank from the Well of Sorrows.

 

The real question is, does a Warden who drank the Power of Blood have enough mastery over the taint to resist the will that is Corypheus? Also, would the Litany of Adralla protect a Warden from Corypheus?

[Aulis Vaara]

How does it not apply? Loghain struck the final blow against the archdemon, and he died with it. He was fine right before that. So what killed him if not soul cancelation

It's not about what did happen, it's about what didn't happen: Corypheus didn't die upon body jumping. This means that soul cancellation can't be the true cause. We DO know that the joining requires Archdemon blood, which seems the likely cause of mutual annihilation.

[evelynwarden]

1. As a king, and even though he's gone out of his way to convince us that, ten years later, he still hates the more uptight aspect of the life, I would imagine that the calling of the kingdom is more important to him than the beginnings of the calling process. In fact, I'd imagine that at the urging of his advisors, under threat of political collapse for Ferelden, that he would endure it as long as he can. Also, they didn't vanish into thin air. They scattered and went underground (literally), but did not simply go poof.
2. I don't think Leliana actually knew where the warden was. I recall her saying that she would redouble her efforts to locate the warden if you advised it. If you do, she locates the warden (unless the warden previously romanced Leliana. In which case, I think it's more about location specifics and less about the "why)

Also, I think it could be considered that the blight, since it is a form of plague, will sour anything it touches, it would be best to conduct research in areas that don't have it. Is it resistant? How or why? Is there a reason blight doesn't linger there? Can it be connected to curing the blight elsewhere?

3. An immediate threat is easier to challenge than a concept of "end of the world." I commend the Warens efforts to save the thousands upon thousands of people who are about to die in the short term because of some ancient evil and manufactured magic. The warden mentions a lead, a breakthrough and a steady hunt. Closer than anyone else has come to curing it, why stop? No, she owes it to the world to keep going.

4. Fiona has lost the blight within her. It was miraculously purged from her, as she mentions multiple times. I don't know if she genuinely doesn't know, but I have my theories as to why it happened. No, she can't hear the calling. She is immune to the blight, and thus the magic associated with it. It's more than just losing the symptoms or entering remission. It REVERSED.

The cure would help wardens reaching the end of their limited lifespan. Can they cure the entire underground of darkspawn with the cure? No, blight exists. But merely, warden status would be temporary or not measured strictly in blood. It would be reintroduced during times of blight to slay the arch demon.

5. Leliana feels that becoming divine is greater than secular romance. Honestly, I don't blame her. That's something relatable and something that has definitely happened many times in reality. Bringing freedom to an oppressed people? Power to change the world, for better or worse? To have a chance to save the Chantry, the banner under which the last ten years of her life has been spent in sacrificial devotion? And where has the warden been? Where will the warden BE? No, this is more important.

6. I think the rank is a courtesy. Does one ever stop being a Marine? It is not so far fetched to consider her a warden commander even if she is not acting as one. She is a senior members regardless, and with a title like Hero of Ferelden.... Well, no one will dispute her worthiness as a warden anyway. I definitely don't.

[jedidotflow]

I'm saying that having glitched my way past Val Royeaux I had a different perspective of the conversation in the Gull and the Lantern (meaning I hadn't met Fiona yet). From Fiona's perspective, and mine as well, the claim that the Herald met her in Val Royeaux and was invited to Redcliffe by her should have seemed absurd to Fiona, just as it did to me. It just seems to me Fiona should have been more skeptical to the claim. It would be like some stranger showing up and asking why you invited them there.

 

Just forgot traveling to Val Royeaux?
 

 

But you glitched it, so the game treats it as if you went to Val Royeaux even if you didn't. You didn't discover anything other than the characters have set dialogues that take into account specific events (even if you didn't do them because you glitched).

[Heimdall]

It's not about what did happen, it's about what didn't happen: Corypheus didn't die upon body jumping. This means that soul cancellation can't be the true cause. We DO know that the joining requires Archdemon blood, which seems the likely cause of mutual annihilation.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that. Mythal introduced the notion that a spiritual transfer can only happen with a willing vessel. If the Archdemon attempts to possess an unwilling host then soul cancellation may very well be the result. Archdemons can't control Grey Wardens, Corypheus can, so he makes them willing. So Corypheus being able to jump into Grey Wardens doesn't prove anything.