154 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

meh.

[Lady Artifice]

Every time someone brings up the ethical implications of....Sigh, we know she's a character. Nobody on this thread so far has demonstrated an inability to grasp that she's a character. That fact does not disallow a discussion of that characters situation.

[Steve236]

This too. Sometimes it might be just as simple as trusting bioware not to write such a situation.

So what? get rid of all the romance now?

 

By the way Does any of you tumblr sexual harassment police remember this is a VIDEO GAME! Beside you dont have to flirt with anyone!

[Lady Artifice]

So what? get rid of all the romance now?
 
By the way Does any of you tumblr sexual harassment police remember this is a VIDEO GAME! Beside you dont have to flirt with anyone!

Um...no? I'm thrilled with the romances. I also think the Harding situation is just fine. My point is that I TRUST bioware not to write a situation where we're (Edit: continuously, sexually) harassing someone who works for our character.

I think you're assuming my point is the opposite of what it is.

[Rannik]

My point is that I TRUST bioware not to write a situation where we're harassing someone who works for our character.

 

Because in a game where you murder 23423467287347234 people, harassing someone would be just horrible.

[Lord Surinen]

Um..no? I'm thrilled with the romances. I also think the Harding situation is just fine. My point is that I TRUST bioware not to write a situation where we're harassing someone who works for our character.

I think you're assuming my point is the opposite of what it is.

Then we would not have half of BioWare cast: starting with Wrex, going through Vette and ending at her Sister, a girl who you can use before freeing.[examples based on my recent playthroughs]

 

 

That's another thing; you don't get to turn the Inquisitor stuff off. A manager at a work place has off hours; they go to a bar, they're just a person. 

 

The Inquisitor is always the Inquisitor. You go to a bar, you're the Inquisitor. You go to the park, you're the Inquisitor. There's no down time. And by the end of the game, the Inquisitor more or less outranks everyone, up to and including the ruler of Orlais. The only exception being the new Divine, potentially, who you may well already be in a relationship with.

 

Point being, the Inquisitor doesn't get the luxury of having people they don't have some degree of influence over to choose from as romantic partners. So the option is accept that a person in a place of authority can pursue a romance without abusing that authority, or expect them to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. 

I'm the Inquisitor, nothing that I will do will be an 'abuse' of authority. I'm the authority, I'm the power incarnate. I get what I want, I bend and break what I wish.

[Lady Artifice]

Okay, okay. Hang on. I don't have any complaints or suggestions. I'm happy with the game, I'm happy with the romances, and I'm happy with the flirts.

Then we would not have half of BioWare cast: starting with Wrex, going through Vette and ending at her Sister, a girl who you can use before freeing.[examples based on my recent playthroughs]
 

I don't know what avenue this "then we wouldn't" is following because I'm not suggesting anything change.

Also, Rubios, I'm not debating relative rightness or wrongness here. I was stating what I personally believe bioware wouldn't do.

[Lord Surinen]

Okay, okay. Hang on. I don't have any complaints or suggestions. I'm happy with the game, I'm happy with the romances, and I'm happy with the flirts.


I don't know what avenue this "then we wouldn't" is following because I'm not suggesting anything change.

Also, Rubios, I'm not debating relative rightness or wrongness here. I was stating what I personally believe bioware wouldn't do.

They have betrayed your trust years ago. I'm not suggesting that you suggest that they would change anything. I'm simply saying that your trust is no longer required.

[King Dragonlord]

So what? get rid of all the romance now?

 

By the way Does any of you tumblr sexual harassment police remember this is a VIDEO GAME! Beside you dont have to flirt with anyone!

 

<sigh>

 

Really. I swear I'm not one of those. I used to be Republican. Still have some Republican values. I even used to listen to Rush Limbaugh* back in the day and still think he's pretty on point about things (he's way better than most of the pundits he inspired at least, usually good about his research or at least he was when I still listened.) And I'm a Libertarian now. I don't like being uptight about a bunch of rules. I am definitely not a liberal (not that it would be so horrible but I'm not. At least I have little in common with American contemporary liberalism). 

 

But sexual harassment is one of those areas where TWO peoples' freedoms come into some conflict. Its worth not dismissing out of hand at least. 

 

Now I'm willing to accept based on the reactions here that I misread the Scout Harding flirting. But I don't think I was wrong to at least bring the subject up. 

 

Got it? 

 

*I am ONLY bringing that up to make the point that I'm not of the Tumblerati. We don't need to make this about Rush Limbaugh. Please. 

[Lady Artifice]

Okay so your examples include Wrex...How is he an example of sexual harassment?

I don't want to complicate this really. I jist don't think Bioware has written this cute little flirt only romance with Harding, only for there to be an ugly undercurrent of her feeling sexually harassed the whole time. That, to me, just seems implausible. I recognize that this is just my opinion.

[King Dragonlord]

Okay so your examples include Wrex...How is he an example of sexual harassment?

I don't want to complicate this really. I jist don't think Bioware has written this cute little flirt only romance with Harding, only for there to be an ugly undercurrent of her feeling sexually harassed the whole time. That, to me, just seems implausible. I recognize that this is just my opinion.

 

Right? I just wish Scout Harding would find my character hideous and not be afraid to tell me that. I wish they'd all find me hideous. Then I'd have a good reason to sit down with a gallon of ice cream and watch Galaxy Quest. Because that is never, ever, a bad idea. 

 

<sob><sniff>

 

Seriously, Bioware needs to make this an option for their next protagonist. 

[AresKeith]

Right? I just wish Scout Harding would find my character hideous and not be afraid to tell me that. I wish they'd all find me hideous. Then I'd have a good reason to sit down with a gallon of ice cream and watch Galaxy Quest. Because that is never, ever, a bad idea. 

 

<sob><sniff>

 

Seriously, Bioware needs to make this an option for their next protagonist. 

 

Sera probably finds your male inquisitor hideous

[Degs29]

if she says stop and you don't then its an issue, otherwise I don't see a problem

 

Lol, only in a game does that work.

[KCMeredith]

Harding would probably kick my ass, so I'm always super nice to her

[Lord Surinen]

Okay so your examples include Wrex...How is he an example of sexual harassment?

I don't want to complicate this really. I jist don't think Bioware has written this cute little flirt only romance with Harding, only for there to be an ugly undercurrent of her feeling sexually harassed the whole time. That, to me, just seems implausible. I recognize that this is just my opinion.

Wrex is actually an example of ultimately 'abusive' behaviour towards your companion. You can kill him 2 times, I say it is pretty much worse than using your position to get certain benefits. But yes, Mass Effect (that bald girl who's name I don't remember nor I wish to) and SWTOR are prime examples of whatever this thread is about.

[ME_Fan]

Of course it's ok. As soon as I met her I thought she was cute, so was pleasantly surprised at the options to have a friendly flirt.

[Lady Artifice]

Sorry. I'm not quoting you Surinen. My phone can't do it.

Anyway, this is true. We have some despicable options available to us.

Those options, however, are framed in story as being ruthless/immoral. They aren't tricking us into being oblivious predators.

[Teddie Sage]

It's not sexual harassment to me if you're not touching the other person or not complimenting their body parts. Flirts are okay as long as you don't bother someone so much.

[General TSAR]

Every time someone brings up the ethical implications of....Sigh, we know she's a character. Nobody on this thread so far has demonstrated an inability to grasp that she's a character. That fact does not disallow a discussion of that characters situation.

Fine, the character is obviously a professional killer, not a delicate flower who will crack apart at some harmless banter that doesn't go anywhere. 

 

She killed a Templar and Mage in cold blood and probably killed more, you think she doesn't have the capacity to shrug off "sexual harassment" and continue with her duty? 

[Lord Surinen]

Sorry. I'm not quoting you Surinen. My phone can't do it.

Anyway, this is true. We have some despicable options available to us.

Those options, however, are framed in story as being ruthless/immoral. They aren't tricking us into being oblivious predators.

It is fine my Lady.

 

Yes, we do. Personally I would not describe them in such manner but yes, we can be gloriously dominating over our prey.

 

Yes, I think so, yes, they are framed this way, to a certain degree and under influence of certain morality codes. Dragon Age on the other hand, from what I gather, is not using the same kind of interface. We don't have such options as [Kill him with the inner darkness of your heart. Do you feel your black artery? It is craving for blood], we just get [Kill]. I have not encountered this particular npc that we are discussing here but I guess there is an option to avoid flirt. I say, let players choose whatever they want, if they want to get a slave and make him/her amorously entertain PC for a piece of bread, then sure, let them. I think it was the case in DAII where you could flirt with Fenris and then give him back to his Tevinter master.

[Steelcan]

Lol, only in a game does that work.

well its a good thing this is a game

[Degs29]

It's not sexual harassment to me if you're not touching the other person or not complimenting their body parts. Flirts are okay as long as you don't bother someone so much.

 

That line is far too blurry to be comfortable.  To me, "harassment" means persistence in the face of negative feedback.  I wouldn't fault someone if they went too far with me.  I'd simply make it known.  If they continue after that, then it's harassment.  But I myself don't even follow that when flirting with other people in real life, simply because it's playing with fire.  It's sad, but true.

 

But we're talking about a game.  It's not like your real life reputation is going to be damaged if you take things too far.

[King Dragonlord]

well its a good thing this is a game

 

Right and that's where I think we can resolve this. 

 

I think its fair to expect that Bioware would signal to us if we shouldn't be doing this, if it was unwelcome harassment. If this were real life it would be more questionable but games have layers of abstraction, even games as realistic as these.

 

After all, we probably have only a dozen or so conversations with our LIs before we're in full on committed romances. And those conversations are maybe a half a dozen lines each on average. Maybe more in this game.

 

We have the expectation things we should know are going to be somewhat explicitly conveyed. That's why even when we're in the Winter Palace, the masters of deception are fairly transparent and obvious. That's why we have a search button instead of just having to dig around blindly looking for things. 

 

So in a situation this ambiguous and factoring in that, of course, Harding is not real, I've concluded that it is fair for the player to assume that your flirting with Scout Harding is not unwelcome unless the game conveys such in a fairly obvious way. Stammering is too ambiguous. 

 

After all, the typical Bioware protagonist seems to have lots of admirers. 

[King Dragonlord]

Right and that's where I think we can resolve this. 

 

I think its fair to expect that Bioware would signal to us if we shouldn't be doing this, if it was unwelcome harassment. If this were real life it would be more questionable but games have layers of abstraction, even games as realistic as these.

 

After all, we probably have only a dozen or so conversations with our LIs before we're in full on committed romances. And those conversations are maybe a half a dozen lines each on average. Maybe more in this game.

 

We have the expectation that things we should know are going to be somewhat explicitly conveyed. That's why even when we're in the Winter Palace, the masters of deception are fairly transparent and obvious. That's why we have a search button instead of just having to dig around blindly looking for things. 

 

So in a situation this ambiguous and factoring in that, of course, Harding is not real, I've concluded that it is fair for the player to assume that your flirting with Scout Harding is not unwelcome unless the game conveys such in a fairly obvious way. Stammering is too ambiguous. 

 

After all, the typical Bioware protagonist seems to have lots of admirers. 

[Lady Artifice]

Fine, the character is obviously a professional killer, not a delicate flower who will crack apart at some harmless banter that doesn't go anywhere. 

 

She killed a Templar and Mage in cold blood and probably killed more, you think she doesn't have the capacity to shrug off "sexual harassment" and continue with her duty? 

 

 

(Back on Computer)

 

I quite agree, in fact. I enjoyed having the Inquisitor flirt with her, and I believe Harding reciprocates. I also think a "full" romance would have been splendid. 

 

::shrug:: Those who do question the situation, however, are not necessarily doing so out of an inability to separate fiction and reality.