36 réponses à ce sujet

[BronzTrooper]

Alright, so I finished DA:I after putting in 80 hours of gameplay and I've learned quite a bit about the elves that hasn't been stated before.  Since most of this stuff is spoilery, I'll put it in spoiler tabs for those who don't want to be spoiled.

 

Spoiler

(double spoiler-tabbed, just in case)

Spoiler

First off- and I hate to admit this-, it seems that some of the trolls that said that ancient Arlathan was a slavery empire were right.  The vallaslin that the Dalish where does indeed represent the Creators, but they were for the slaves.  The vallaslin that the slaves wore depended on which of the Creators their master worshiped.  This is confirmed by Solas in his romance arc, though I'm not 100% sure if he states it when not romanced.

 

Second, there are indeed elves who survived the war with the Tevinter Imperium and have survived to this day.  At the moment, it seems that there is only the group that protected the Temple of Mythal; more specifically, the Well of Sorrows.  There's no info on where these elves go after the Well has been 'despoiled', as Abelas, the leader of these survivors, states.

 

Third, it seems that Mythal, Fen'Harel, and, possibly, all the Creators actually do exist in a real sense in the DA universe.  Abelas states that the Dalish lore on the disappearance of the Creators is false, saying that Mythal was killed, though he doesn't exactly state whether it was considered permanent or not.

 

CAUTION: MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD.

 

Fourth, it seems that Mythal was the spirit that Flemeth contacted when she was human.  In a way, Flemeth and Mythal are the same person.  Oh, you guys remember that dragon from the trailers?  The one we see fighting the blackened-up dragon?  Apparently that's Mythal's Guardian.  If you think about this, it makes sense that Flemeth would be able to shapeshift into a dragon since she could summon the Guardian and study it.  It also seems that, according to Flemeth, a soul cannot be forced into an unwilling host, meaning that Flemeth never intended to use Morrigan as a new host.

 

Fifth, apparently Solas is Fen'Harel.  In a post-credits cutscene, both he and Flemeth talk to each other.  Flemeth refers to Solas the Dread Wolf (a.k.a.: Fen'Harel) and Solas acts as though he is an ashamed son coming clean to his mother, which makes sense considering how Mythal is considered to be the mother goddess of the Creators.  However, at the end of this cutscene, Flemeth 'dies'.  It's left ambiguous because Solas holds onto Flemeth to keep her body from falling to the ground, but after this, some sort of smokey.... essence form around his eyes.  Whether this was Flemeth body-hopping or something else is unknown at this time.  I doubt it's the former, but stranger things have happened in the DA universe.

 

If you want to discuss this, feel free to do so as long as we keep it to spoiler tabs.  Common courtesy and the such.

 

Oh, and I guess I'm back from my media blackout now.... somewhat.  

[Roamingmachine]

About the Vallasiin:

Spoiler

They were indeed slave marks in Arlathan. However, the vallasiin of Arlathan and the ones that adorn the Dalish are two diffrent things as the dalish only adopted them after the fall of the Dales as a mark of defiance. They went from slave marks to exactly what the Dalish say they are: Marks that honor their gods.

 

About Arlathan:

Spoiler

It's pretty much as i expected it to be. The society and fall follow those of rome where infighting weakened them so much that people who were much less advanced had no real trouble steamrolling them. The Dalish legends are a partial truth in that and i would have been extremely suprised if everything about the legends were true. You have to remember that Arlathan was raised up by the elves after the fall of Tevinter as a mythical, perfect 'atlantis' to give them something to strive for and remind them that they can be so much more than what they are.

 

About the source of some of the revelations

Spoiler

They come from Fen'harrel. The Loki of the elven pantheon. Tread carefully with him because the trickster says and doesn't say things according to his own designs and partial truth is often more dangerous than outright lie when spoken at the right time.

[BronzTrooper]

About the Vallasiin:

Spoiler

They were indeed slave marks in Arlathan. However, the vallasiin of Arlathan and the ones that adorn the Dalish are two diffrent things as the dalish only adopted them after the fall of the Dales as a mark of defiance. They went from slave marks to exactly what the Dalish say they are: Marks that honor their gods.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, that's how I view it too.  Whatever the vallaslin meant during the time or Arlathan, the meaning has changed over time.  I used that as the reasoning behind my f!Dalish deciding to keep her vallaslin when Solas offered to remove it.

 

 

About Arlathan:

Spoiler

It's pretty much as i expected it to be. The society and fall follow those of rome where infighting weakened them so much that people who were much less advanced had no real trouble steamrolling them. The Dalish legends are a partial truth in that and i would have been extremely suprised if everything about the legends were true. You have to remember that Arlathan was raised up by the elves after the fall of Tevinter as a mythical, perfect 'atlantis' to give them something to strive for and remind them that they can be so much more than what they are.

 

Spoiler

I never exactly viewed Arlathan as being a utopia, but at the very least I viewed it as being better than Tevinter.  The fact that the trolls were right just makes me feel.... peeved, to put it lightly.

 

 

About the source of some of the revelations

Spoiler

They come from Fen'harrel. The Loki of the elven pantheon. Tread carefully with him because the trickster says and doesn't say things according to his own designs and partial truth is often more dangerous than outright lie when spoken at the right time.

 

Spoiler

That's the thing, though.  His deception was who he actually was and his reasoning behind helping the Inquisition.  Unless you mean the Dalish legends, in which case, I can understand that, but the Dalish have little enough knowledge of ancient Arlathan, so they were pretty much guessing at what it was like back then.  Since the Dalish legends aren't true, I'd guess that Fen'Harel isn't what he's been said to be, meaning that while he could potentially be the trickster god, that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't to be trusted at all.  He could be something like Nocturnal from TES, in that he influences luck.

 

But then, this is all speculation.

[Roamingmachine]

Spoiler

That's the thing, though.  His deception was who he actually was and his reasoning behind helping the Inquisition.  Unless you mean the Dalish legends, in which case, I can understand that, but the Dalish have little enough knowledge of ancient Arlathan, so they were pretty much guessing at what it was like back then.  Since the Dalish legends aren't true, I'd guess that Fen'Harel isn't what he's been said to be, meaning that while he could potentially be the trickster god, that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't to be trusted at all.  He could be something like Nocturnal from TES, in that he influences luck.

 

Spoiler

We have no idea what his game really is. I get the feeling he is manipulating the inquisitor with the intent of manipulating the elves in general for some purpose. Anything he has to say about the elven gods is especially suspect as a traitor wouldn't exactly admit to treason or at least the he only betrayed bad guys right? The Dalish legends weren't entirely untrue after all. Immortality, the dreaming...all true. Gods? Very very true. It is not suprising that the unpleasant parts were not remembered. I think we have not seen the last of the Unlaughing Jester.

[BronzTrooper]

Spoiler

We have no idea what his game really is. I get the feeling he is manipulating the inquisitor with the intent of manipulating the elves in general for some purpose. Anything he has to say about the elven gods is especially suspect as a traitor wouldn't exactly admit to treason or at least the he only betrayed bad guys right? The Dalish legends weren't entirely untrue after all. Immortality, the dreaming...all true. Gods? Very very true. It is not suprising that the unpleasant parts were not remembered. I think we have not seen the last of the Unlaughing Jester.

 

Spoiler

Well, Fen'Harel was Solas.  Abelas was the one who said that Mythal was 'killed'.  And since Flemeth and Mythal are essentially the same person now, and we know that Flemeth doesn't lie (she just doesn't mention certain things), I'm more inclined to believe Flemeth and Abelas.  Solas (a.k.a.: Fen'Harel) only says that vallaslin was originally slave markings in the days of Arlathan.

 

Abelas states that the Dalish are not 'his people', so he doesn't feel inclined to help them.  The trolls will be inclined to view this as another faction of elves being arrogant, but I can understand why Abelas feels the way he does, considering how he's been around, possibly, since the days of Arlathan itself, and sees the surviving Dalish as less elven due to their comparative lack of knowledge of elven lore.  I'm more inclined to believe him because he obviously knows more elven lore than anyone else we've encountered, save perhaps Solas/Fen'Harel and Flemeth/Mythal.

[SamanthaJ]

Spoiler

A codex entry revealed a translation error that had Fen'Harel labelled as deceptive when he is more accurately the god of rebellion. This makes a whole lot of sense based on his stance towards slavery and the Qun. There is also no vallaslin corresponding to Fen'Harel, and since they were actually slave marks...I think Solas is actually a very honest person. I believe that he has never spoken a lie to my Inquisitor. The key word here is spoken, since he does have this tendency towards omission.

 

[Roamingmachine]

Spoiler

A codex entry revealed a translation error that had Fen'Harel labelled as deceptive when he is more accurately the god of rebellion. This makes a whole lot of sense based on his stance towards slavery and the Qun. There is also no vallaslin corresponding to Fen'Harel, and since they were actually slave marks...I think Solas is actually a very honest person. I believe that he has never spoken a lie to my Inquisitor. The key word here is spoken, since he does have this tendency towards omission.

 

 

Spoiler

Indeed. Half truths can be more dangerous than outright lies. Though it's interesting that he would be the god of rebellion. Honestly i would label him a god of freedom. And as absolute freedom is also chaos, his trickster reputation wouldn't be misplaced and it would make sense why he would have been shunned even in ancient times. No society, enlightened or not, can survive absolute freedom.  Interestingly, the fade IS absolute freedom and chaos in it rawest percievable form. Kinda fits with his intersts, dont you think? This is, of course, pure speculation on my part

[Roamingmachine]

Spoiler

Well, Fen'Harel was Solas.  Abelas was the one who said that Mythal was 'killed'.  And since Flemeth and Mythal are essentially the same person now, and we know that Flemeth doesn't lie (she just doesn't mention certain things), I'm more inclined to believe Flemeth and Abelas.  Solas (a.k.a.: Fen'Harel) only says that vallaslin was originally slave markings in the days of Arlathan.

 

Abelas states that the Dalish are not 'his people', so he doesn't feel inclined to help them.  The trolls will be inclined to view this as another faction of elves being arrogant, but I can understand why Abelas feels the way he does, considering how he's been around, possibly, since the days of Arlathan itself, and sees the surviving Dalish as less elven due to their comparative lack of knowledge of elven lore.  I'm more inclined to believe him because he obviously knows more elven lore than anyone else we've encountered, save perhaps Solas/Fen'Harel and Flemeth/Mythal.

 

Spoiler

About what Abelas says...i agree with you. The entire world has regressed since the days of Arlathan and the Dalish to him must be like some early medieval italian walking up to a senator from the height of the Roman empire and claiming kinship. Though while he certainly knows much, he too must be suspected of omission as he does not like us at all.

[Roamingmachine]

A new perspective on a few things...

Spoiler

So i played the temple again and noticed a few things i hadn't before....

The priests all wear vallaslin. The supposed slave mark. Yet no chains, no masters and all are armed to the teeth. With our knowledge of the well, i think that the 'slavery' is not what we think it is.

I don't think people were bought or sold because what need do beings who are magic manifest for mass physical labor? I think what we have here is that the 'slavery' refers to the bond the elven gods forged with their priesthood that makes them literal instruments of their gods. Whether or not they gave themselves willingly (which i believe based on what Abelas says about duty. Also: actual, undeniable gods. Don't think it was viewed as much of a slavery) or were forced in to it, we do not know. What Solas says makes perfect sense regardless because of what he is and what he believes in. Food for thought

 

And as a happy sidenote, i noticed two elves talking about the temple in Skyhold (just down the stairs when you exit the main keep). An andrastian elf in a cool armor and a Dalish elf. One of them has their position seriously shaken and the other is excited about the discoveries. And the Dalish is not the one whose position is shaken

[CapivaRasgor]

A new perspective on a few things...

Spoiler

So i played the temple again and noticed a few things i hadn't before....
The priests all wear vallaslin. The supposed slave mark. Yet no chains, no masters and all are armed to the teeth. With our knowledge of the well, i think that the 'slavery' is not what we think it is.
I don't think people were bought or sold because what need do beings who are magic manifest for mass physical labor? I think what we have here is that the 'slavery' refers to the bond the elven gods forged with their priesthood that makes them literal instruments of their gods. Whether or not they gave themselves willingly (which i believe based on what Abelas says about duty. Also: actual, undeniable gods. Don't think it was viewed as much of a slavery) or were forced in to it, we do not know. What Solas says makes perfect sense regardless because of what he is and what he believes in. Food for thought

And as a happy sidenote, i noticed two elves talking about the temple in Skyhold (just down the stairs when you exit the main keep). An andrastian elf in a cool armor and a Dalish elf. One of them has their position seriously shaken and the other is excited about the discoveries. And the Dalish is not the one whose position is shaken

Spoiler

Given how Fen’Harel himself is the source of these informations, and how he is the god of rebellion, I’m pretty sure he’s inclined towards a somewhat biased. I believe serfdom might be a better word than slavery, even if both are still pretty similar.

[Kalamah]

Spoiler

So, I'm in agreement with the speculation about Solas, especially regarding half-truths and omissions. Particularly, I got the strong impression he was choosing his words for maximum effect for the vallaslin being "slave" markings; he knew that word would get an emotional reaction of rejection, which then gave him an opportunity to offer to remove them. I also got the feeling he doesn't like the thought of the Dalish reclaiming (or repurposing) anything from Arlathan, considering the emphasis he puts on the Dalish getting things "wrong" and thus making them unworthy.

 

Further, I can't imagine why any Dalish clan would treat Solas rudely for being so contemptuous of them. His intentions might be what he thinks are good, but his way of going about things has been one screw up after another, and he has the audacity to blame the Dalish for not remembering what was taken from them. First, he screws up enough so that Arlathan falls after taking the Creators out of the picture (and then goes into Odinsleep, conveniently), then he gives Corypheus his orb thing (because what could possibly go wrong with that), and then acts all know-it-all and tries to get everyone else to fix the problems he created. All in all, I don't entirely trust him, and I think he's definitely got issues of pride getting in the way of him admitting his part in things, to say the least.

 

(The use of demon names was deliberate. )

[Roamingmachine]

Further speculation about the vallaslin

 

Spoiler

When you think of it, it makes perfect sense that the memory of the vallaslin and their link to the gods (but not the exact nature of the link) was remembered all through Tevinter slavery right down to the modern Dalish. In Arlathan the ones wearing them were the eyes, ears and hands of the gods themselves. That is precisely the kind of stuff legends are made of.  The fact that the nature of the link was forgotten is not suprising as i don't believe such things would be widely known in the first place.

 

The delicious part is that the Dalish are not only partially right about the marks, but that they continue to uphold the original purpose of the marks in a way as well.In Arlathan they were used to mark out those who had (or had been made to, we don't know after all) given themselves to the gods fully. The Dalish have devoted themselves collectively to their heritage and gods every bit as devotely as the priests of old, just without the direct and tangible bond. Like one dalish npc said in an overheard conversations "The old ways live"

[animedreamer]

Why do the writers keep jerking our chains.... Now our blood markings are slave markings. I speak of course of the Vallasin.  Broke my heart when Solas told me that... and im agonizing over whether to remove them or not.

 

people who read the Masked Empire probably knew this already though, as i doubt its new to DA:I exclusively. 

 

Also Ancient elves are jerks and elitist dickheads. They wouldn't even consider rejoining the remenants of the present day Elves and teach if not re-educate their people. Hell they called my Dalish a shemlen.  *rage*

[BronzTrooper]

Why do the writers keep jerking our chains.... Now our blood markings are slave markings. I speak of course of the Vallasin.  Broke my heart when Solas told me that... and im agonizing over whether to remove them or not.

 

people who read the Masked Empire probably knew this already though, as i doubt its new to DA:I exclusively. 

 

Also Ancient elves are jerks and elitist dickheads. They wouldn't even consider rejoining the remenants of the present day Elves and teach if not re-educate their people. Hell they called my Dalish a shemlen.  *rage*

 

Yeah, I wasn't exactly glad to hear that from Solas either.  All BW did was give the trolls more ammuntion.  

 

As for the removing/keeping the vallaslin, what I did was think about how regardless of what the original meaning behind the vallaslin was, the meaning is different now and part of who my Inquisitor is as a person.  I was tempted to let Solas remove the vallaslin, but the vallaslin is one of the defining characteristics of the Dalish.  If my Inquisitor lost that, she'd have less of a connection to her clan and her past life.

 

I have no idea if it was mentioned in Masked Empire, but if it was, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have just been the trolls that said that Arlathan was a slavery empire.

 

Honestly, the same could be said about the Dalish- and often has.  Just like the vallaslin revelation, it just gives the trolls more ammuntion.  

 

And that's weird.  They didn't call my Inquisitor shem'len.  How did you go about moving through the Temple?  I wouldn't be surprised if that had a hand in it.

 

I decided to do the rituals, despite Sera's whining about rituals being 'bad' and Blackwall saying that we needed to hurry because the Inquisition soldiers were fighting and dying.  I was also fairly polite to Abelas.

[Roamingmachine]

Why do the writers keep jerking our chains.... Now our blood markings are slave markings. I speak of course of the Vallasin.  Broke my heart when Solas told me that... and im agonizing over whether to remove them or not.

 

people who read the Masked Empire probably knew this already though, as i doubt its new to DA:I exclusively. 

 

Also Ancient elves are jerks and elitist dickheads. They wouldn't even consider rejoining the remenants of the present day Elves and teach if not re-educate their people. Hell they called my Dalish a shemlen.  *rage*

 

A lot depends on your definition of slavery. I personally think based on my observations that calling Arlathan 'slavery empire' is rubbish simply because the 'slavery' is not what we think it is. Solas was telling a version of the truth, but being the manipulative dude he is, omitted what he considered slavery. Pop open the spoilers i've written above for more in-depth writeup but in short, there's no need to feel bad as it appears that the trolls are in fact the ones in the wrong here. Be proud of your vallaslin 

 

As for the elitist ancient elves....Ehh, Solas actually puts it  quite well if you choose his special option when you first meet Abelas. What kinship is there between them, thousands of years old instruments of gods, and modern short-lived elves? They come from a completely diffrent world. He called my elfy-elf shemlen as well though i was respectul, did the ritual and so forth so i don't know if its a bug or not but if its not, well we ARE quickened. Though its still a d*ckish thing to say.

[CapivaRasgor]

Yeah, I wasn't exactly glad to hear that from Solas either. All BW did was give the trolls more ammuntion.

As for the removing/keeping the vallaslin, what I did was think about how regardless of what the original meaning behind the vallaslin was, the meaning is different now and part of who my Inquisitor is as a person. I was tempted to let Solas remove the vallaslin, but the vallaslin is one of the defining characteristics of the Dalish. If my Inquisitor lost that, she'd have less of a connection to her clan and her past life.

I have no idea if it was mentioned in Masked Empire, but if it was, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have just been the trolls that said that Arlathan was a slavery empire.

Honestly, the same could be said about the Dalish- and often has. Just like the vallaslin revelation, it just gives the trolls more ammuntion.

And that's weird. They didn't call my Inquisitor shem'len. How did you go about moving through the Temple? I wouldn't be surprised if that had a hand in it.

I decided to do the rituals, despite Sera's whining about rituals being 'bad' and Blackwall saying that we needed to hurry because the Inquisition soldiers were fighting and dying. I was also fairly polite to Abelas.

I’d like to note again, Solas/Fen’Harel is hardly an unbiased source, being the god of rebellion and all. Taking him at face value on everything it’s pretty much like believing that a libertarian point of view of the Circle of Magi as the absolute truth. Besides, what the blood writing was in the Ancient days doesn’t change what it is today: a symbol of defiance, cultural identity, pride in heritage and perseverance in keeping a lore long forgotten.

As for the trolls, Gamer, I think it went both ways. BioWare has given us plenty ammunition too in regards of the Chantry, I mean… there were some common statements that certain trolls preached (not citing names, If you’re curious PM me) in pre-release talks:

1. The Inquisition is not going to be independent from the Chantry, as the latter is “funding the bloody thing”.

2. The game is not going to allow radical change, the end to the Mage-Templar will be regional, neither institution will likely be disbanded, regardless of who you side with.

3. Lord Seeker Lambert was the only sane person in Asunder (lol, can’t keep myself from laughing at this one). Trying to keep the cure from Tranquility from leaking in such a volatile situation.

4. The Inquisition is a specialized order, and like many of those, is going to be disbanded once the problem is solved.

Yet, what we have:

1. The Inquisition(mostly, if you disconsider noble donations) funds itself. Which is evident in the constant “Gather Coin” operations in the War Table. In fact, during the whole plot of the game, the Chantry is going on a steady downhill. Without a clear sucession it’s deadlocked, and this deadlock is crumbling the organization, if it wasn’t for the Inquisition supporting a Divine candidate, the Chantry would probably wouldn’t survive, schisms would have been inevitable. In this situation the Chantry is not in any state about funding a paramilitary organization, they are too preoccupied pulling themselves back togheter.

2. If you side with the mages, between the Templars who join Corypheus and are crushed in the Arbor Wilds, the Seekers who follow Lucius in joining the crazy nihilistic cult and the sane ones who drop their flags and join the Inquisition… I think its pretty safe to assume that in this scenario the Templar Order and the Seekers of Truth as we knew them are gone. Comb that with a Leliana who was made Divine, and the Circle of Magi, as we knew it, is also dissolved. I have to admit that I rather like that outcome, let’s try things in a different way, let the Inquisition remain as the much needed secular organization responsible for dealing with magical problems.

3. After doing Cassandra’s personal quest: turns out that Lambert was acting with his own motivations all along, keeping the cure a secret was more in line with preserving the Seekers dirty secret than any political backlash that could have resulted from revealing it to the Mages, this was just so delicious that I felt an urge to break out fom my media blackout just to make a troll thread on this, sadly, I’m too polite for that. Also, in this same quest, it was also refreshing to see that even the supposed incorruptible Seekers sell their own to demons and go off to join crazy cults, glad to see that one doesn’t need a staff and a robe for that.

4. If the narrated epilogue by Morrigan doesn’t end up retconned like the ones in Origins/Awakening than at the end of the game the Inquisition is among the most powerful and influential players in Southern Thedas, hardly disbanding.

Seeing this for me was so good that I can live with the ancient elves being potentially jerks.

[animedreamer]

Yeah, I wasn't exactly glad to hear that from Solas either.  All BW did was give the trolls more ammuntion.  

 

As for the removing/keeping the vallaslin, what I did was think about how regardless of what the original meaning behind the vallaslin was, the meaning is different now and part of who my Inquisitor is as a person.  I was tempted to let Solas remove the vallaslin, but the vallaslin is one of the defining characteristics of the Dalish.  If my Inquisitor lost that, she'd have less of a connection to her clan and her past life.

 

I have no idea if it was mentioned in Masked Empire, but if it was, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have just been the trolls that said that Arlathan was a slavery empire.

 

Honestly, the same could be said about the Dalish- and often has.  Just like the vallaslin revelation, it just gives the trolls more ammuntion.  

 

And that's weird.  They didn't call my Inquisitor shem'len.  How did you go about moving through the Temple?  I wouldn't be surprised if that had a hand in it.

 

I decided to do the rituals, despite Sera's whining about rituals being 'bad' and Blackwall saying that we needed to hurry because the Inquisition soldiers were fighting and dying.  I was also fairly polite to Abelas.

i did the ritual, and it's one of the reasons why they helped me, and allowed me to partake of the well. Also *kick Morrigan* This is MY HERITAGE... the Well of Sorrow is for the Elves!

[BronzTrooper]

i did the ritual, and it's one of the reasons why they helped me, and allowed me to partake of the well. Also *kick Morrigan* This is MY HERITAGE... the Well of Sorrow is for the Elves!

 

Exactly.  Move over shem, elven knowledge doesn't belong to you.  

[BronzTrooper]

I’d like to note again, Solas/Fen’Harel is hardly an unbiased source, being the god of rebellion and all. Taking him at face value on everything it’s pretty much like believing that a libertarian point of view of the Circle of Magi as the absolute truth. Besides, what the blood writing was in the Ancient days doesn’t change what it is today: a symbol of defiance, cultural identity, pride in heritage and perseverance in keeping a lore long forgotten.

As for the trolls, Gamer, I think it went both ways. BioWare has given us plenty ammunition too in regards of the Chantry, I mean… there were some common statements that certain trolls preached (not citing names, If you’re curious PM me) in pre-release talks:

1. The Inquisition is not going to be independent from the Chantry, as the latter is “funding the bloody thing”.

2. The game is not going to allow radical change, the end to the Mage-Templar will be regional, neither institution will likely be disbanded, regardless of who you side with.

3. Lord Seeker Lambert was the only sane person in Asunder (lol, can’t keep myself from laughing at this one). Trying to keep the cure from Tranquility from leaking in such a volatile situation.

4. The Inquisition is a specialized order, and like many of those, is going to be disbanded once the problem is solved.

Yet, what we have:

1. The Inquisition(mostly, if you disconsider noble donations) funds itself. Which is evident in the constant “Gather Coin” operations in the War Table. In fact, during the whole plot of the game, the Chantry is going on a steady downhill. Without a clear sucession it’s deadlocked, and this deadlock is crumbling the organization, if it wasn’t for the Inquisition supporting a Divine candidate, the Chantry would probably wouldn’t survive, schisms would have been inevitable. In this situation the Chantry is not in any state about funding a paramilitary organization, they are too preoccupied pulling themselves back togheter.

2. If you side with the mages, between the Templars who join Corypheus and are crushed in the Arbor Wilds, the Seekers who follow Lucius in joining the crazy nihilistic cult and the sane ones who drop their flags and join the Inquisition… I think its pretty safe to assume that in this scenario the Templar Order and the Seekers of Truth as we knew them are gone. Comb that with a Leliana who was made Divine, and the Circle of Magi, as we knew it, is also dissolved. I have to admit that I rather like that outcome, let’s try things in a different way, let the Inquisition remain as the much needed secular organization responsible for dealing with magical problems.

3. After doing Cassandra’s personal quest: turns out that Lambert was acting with his own motivations all along, keeping the cure a secret was more in line with preserving the Seekers dirty secret than any political backlash that could have resulted from revealing it to the Mages, this was just so delicious that I felt an urge to break out fom my media blackout just to make a troll thread on this, sadly, I’m too polite for that. Also, in this same quest, it was also refreshing to see that even the supposed incorruptible Seekers sell their own to demons and go off to join crazy cults, glad to see that one doesn’t need a staff and a robe for that.

4. If the narrated epilogue by Morrigan doesn’t end up retconned like the ones in Origins/Awakening than at the end of the game the Inquisition is among the most powerful and influential players in Southern Thedas, hardly disbanding.

Seeing this for me was so good that I can live with the ancient elves being potentially jerks.

 

Considering how we have no other source, we sort of have to take Solas at his word.  Roamingmachine does raise multiple good points on that regard, though.  And yeah, I pretty much said that about the vallaslin in my post too.

 

tbh, there was a lot of people talking/complaining about stuff like that, so it wasn't really restricted to the trolls.  At the very least we got to see the Chantry completely flip out and almost fall apart.  Shame we couldn't just let it crumble.

 

Though, in all reality, that was mostly complaints about DA:I itself, not any particular faction.  But then, people just love jumping to conclusions.  

[CapivaRasgor]

Considering how we have no other source, we sort of have to take Solas at his word. Roamingmachine does raise multiple good points on that regard, though. And yeah, I pretty much said that about the vallaslin in my post too.

tbh, there was a lot of people talking/complaining about stuff like that, so it wasn't really restricted to the trolls. At the very least we got to see the Chantry completely flip out and almost fall apart. Shame we couldn't just let it crumble.

Though, in all reality, that was mostly complaints about DA:I itself, not any particular faction. But then, people just love jumping to conclusions.

You know, in a sense the Chantry did crumble. In the end, it felt more like a new version of the Chantry is rising on the foundations of the old one, and 2 out of 3 options for Divine succession have at their core things that wouldn’t be allowed in the “original” Chantry (like a mage as the Divine or the Circles being disbanded). But I digress, talking about the Chantry isn’t the point of this thread.

As for Solas though, he kinda rubbed me off the wrong way with his whole “spirtz are goodiez, mortals are ebulz” vibe so I admit to be at least a little biased towards not trusting him. But having said that, I second what Roamingmachine said, some of these “slaves” may had willingly given themselves in servitude.

[LobselVith8]

A lot depends on your definition of slavery. I personally think based on my observations that calling Arlathan 'slavery empire' is rubbish simply because the 'slavery' is not what we think it is. Solas was telling a version of the truth, but being the manipulative dude he is, omitted what he considered slavery. Pop open the spoilers i've written above for more in-depth writeup but in short, there's no need to feel bad as it appears that the trolls are in fact the ones in the wrong here. Be proud of your vallaslin 

 

Spoiler

True. The elven Warden can refer to the treatment of elves in Orlais as slavery in a discussion with Leliana, and Felassan makes reference to Arlathan being similar to modern Orlais in it's treatment of servants. You also brought up an excellent point about the priests in the temple wearing vallaslin, despite how Solas and Corypheus condemn it as slave markings.

 

As for the elitist ancient elves....Ehh, Solas actually puts it  quite well if you choose his special option when you first meet Abelas. What kinship is there between them, thousands of years old instruments of gods, and modern short-lived elves? They come from a completely diffrent world. He called my elfy-elf shemlen as well though i was respectul, did the ritual and so forth so i don't know if its a bug or not but if its not, well we ARE quickened. Though its still a d*ckish thing to say.

 

Spoiler

I don't disagree that there are differences, but I still liked challenging Abelas about helping the elves. I did the same with Solas - I like the character, but I did say that he should share his knowledge, instead of simply thinking the worst about the Dalish. To be fair, he later admits that he could be wrong about the Dalish, because he respects Lavellan.

 

As for the elven Inquisitor, he (or she) may no longer be quickened after drinking from the well, or we may have more longevity in comparison to modern elves. I also wonder what kind of knowledge we could hypothetically share with the People.

[Roamingmachine]

Spoiler

Just realized something....The mission, 'What pride had wrought'. I thought it was a reference to the pride and fall of the ancient elves but then I was perusing the elven dictionary trying to find a certain word and instead found something much more interesting: Solas means pride. And our Solas caused the chaos that led to the doom of Arlathan when he sealed away the gods, not to mention the current mess in the game. Mind=blown.

[Lillian]

Guys!!!! 

EXPLORE THE EXALTED PLAINS UNTIL YOU FIND THE DALISH GROUP THERE! THEY'LL OPEN UP A NEW AREA FOR YOU TO EXPLORE THAT EXPANDS UPON ELVHEN CULTURE AFTER THE FALL OF ARLATHAN (DIRTHAMEN'S FOLLOWERS IN PARTICULAR).

[Roamingmachine]

Guys!!!! 

EXPLORE THE EXALTED PLAINS UNTIL YOU FIND THE DALISH GROUP THERE! THEY'LL OPEN UP A NEW AREA FOR YOU TO EXPLORE THAT EXPANDS UPON ELVHEN CULTURE AFTER THE FALL OF ARLATHAN (DIRTHAMEN'S FOLLOWERS IN PARTICULAR).

 

And, because the plains are bloody large, i'm just going to go ahead and tell y'all where to find the camp: Southern part of the map accross the river. Have fun

[animedreamer]

Elves are the best looking characters in DA:I no matter the situation.