58 réponses à ce sujet

[blademaster7]

I reloaded my save and I left Alistair at the gates this time. I told him I wasn't plan on dying and he replied: "Just remember, the ritual isn't going to save you if you get you head squashed first."

Yeah, he seems know everything about it, and then he knows nothing

At the coronation he didn't have a clue. He said that the Grey Wardens of Orlais haven't even arrived and they already started questioning. Also, Wynne told me that people love their heroes.... until they do something wrong and turn against him.

I feel guilty already

Modifié par blademaster7, 26 janvier 2010 - 08:33 .

[IronWolf1987]

I never feel guilty about the ritual. It was either don't do the ritual and place the entire battle on 3 grey wardens, or do the ritual and ensure that anyone in my army can kill the arch demon. It's stupid not to do the ritual.

[blademaster7]

To be perfectly honest, I'm torn about the ritual.

That just happened to be a way of reviewing my latest playthrough in a "roleplaying perspective".

Morrigan makes a fine argument about it really. It takes a strong-willed character to say no.

Most guys go: "So, all I have to do to survive is to have sex with a beautiful woman? Perfect"

Female players are even worse... "I want to be queen with Alistair so we must live!"

I tend to go more in depth in rpgs. I think of the consequences before doing something that may have a huge impact in the end.

As I said, I can't really decide whether I see it as a bad or a good action. I would like to believe Morrigan's intentions are pure but common sense says otherwise(I've been discussing this in depth in other threads lately).

Anyway, that not what I asked in the topic. i just wanted to know if Alistair knew about it or not. It's a mistake it seems which happens in everyones game.

[frostajulie]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I never feel guilty about the ritual. It was either don't do the ritual and place the entire battle on 3 grey wardens, or do the ritual and ensure that anyone in my army can kill the arch demon. It's stupid not to do the ritual.

OMG:blink:  I can't believe I never looked at it from that POV before.  It really is stupid not to do the ritual.  God I must be dense:mellow:

[-Conspirator]

Sure, and the others will know that. I prefer a predictable danger as in sacrificing a gray warden over a possible unpredictable one.

Modifié par -Conspirator, 26 janvier 2010 - 11:36 .

[WilliamShatner]

Considering how dense Alistair is you could probably tell him twenty times and he still wouldn't notice.



Just like how he died in the game but didn't notice and and appeared in the post-game text saying he and Anora ruled the land well. What a dunderhead.

[RangerSG]

frostajulie wrote...

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I never feel guilty about the ritual. It was either don't do the ritual and place the entire battle on 3 grey wardens, or do the ritual and ensure that anyone in my army can kill the arch demon. It's stupid not to do the ritual.

OMG:blink:  I can't believe I never looked at it from that POV before.  It really is stupid not to do the ritual.  God I must be dense:mellow:

I'm not sure the ritual guarantees anyone can kill the archdemon. I still think it has to be a Grey Warden striking the killing blow. And I think if there was such an advantage to doing it 'her way' she'd tell you. The assumption on her part is still it's you, Ali or Rio striking the final blow.

[David Gaider]

I don't know what the issue is. But Alistair has dialogue to cover the fact that he may or may not know about the ritual -- or, if he does, he may not know about the purpose of the ritual.

[_Aine_]

anyone can kill the archdemons body. It all depends on how permanent you want that death ( of that particular demon anyway) to be.



From a roleplay perspective, I view it differently, depending on the character.



On one hand I a) Take the selfish route and do the ritual to save everyone I can, we can worry about the next blight after regrouping and creating a better, more prepared battle than this knowing full well i may in fact be promoting the birth of a very powerful old god capable of being corrupted into another archdemon and wonder if it is MORE selfish to consider my ( or another grey wardens) death the ultimate end to the blight. Both are based on either selfishness or vanity, if you choose to look at it as such. Of course it can also appear the ultimate martyrdom -- sacrificing all you ever loved for your beliefs ( a la Loghain in the first book...)



To be honest, I struggle with the decision, as neither seems totally right or wrong....very grey in fact....

[blademaster7]

The game shows the wrong dialogue when you speak to Alistair at the gates apparently.

I think it's for the best not to let anyone( unless you decide to convince Alistair/Loghain) know about the ritual.

I wouldn't imagine the rest of the Grey Wardens being content with it. And what about the chantry? If they found out you made a deal with an apostate and let her walk away with the soul of an old God they'll bury you, hero of Ferelden or not.

It's for the best not to let anyone know, really. That's why I'm wondering

Modifié par blademaster7, 27 janvier 2010 - 12:18 .

[odiedragon]

If malePC doesn't talk to Alistair about it, he shouldn't know.



Also, if you don't tell him the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as a chick, he'll still know everything post-coronation. Dunno if that's tied to the same issue or not...

[Elanareon]

shantisands wrote...

hehe i got that same line from *Loghain of all people* when he refused to sleep with Morrigan, and I was female. We both fought the archdemon ( loghain and myself) - I did the killing blow. Neither of us died. lol I assumed it was a total glitch and then Loghain asked me "I just don't understand how we're still alive. I guess Riordan was wrong?" or something like you said and I answered I bet it had to go something with Morrigans magic.

Not the dark ritual since clearly as a female I couldn't father her arch-demon shell baby and Loghain....well, i couldn't force him to do it. I grew to like the bugger and couldn't force him to do that (on that first loghain alive playthrough). I steeled myself to die and then ended up surviving and running off with Zevran... sending Loghain secret messages from " Orlesian spies" for fun Poor bastard. Needless to say, I think the endings can be a bit borked, but it keeps it fresh and interesting ;-) This time I am leading on Zevran, marrying Alistair as his Queen but then taking off with Sten if i can. Only until that Loghain romance mod comes out of course... although Sten rocks. Probably the only companion whose trust you earn more than anything...

All that was the long drawn out version of " Alistair may or may not know due to some end-game glitches that may affect game-play. " As a male warden, its likely he does NOT know, unless that sensing the Taint thing goes WAY further than I had imaged it to go. oO

Loghain romance? You do know that Loghain is older than Arl Eamon right?

[Mikka-chan]

Ali after Landsmeet is a very confused fellow. Can't figure out whether or not he knows about the ritual (or did it, for that matter), can't figure out if he's King, can't figure out if he's alive... poor guy.

[aymlam79]

When I played as a female elf, I didn't tell Alistair all the details, esp. the impregnating Morrigan part. Yet post-coronation he says that he'd rather not mention that Morrigan left to have his "demon baby" to the Wardens. So with a female character, he seems to know everything about the ritual (guess he really does know where babies come from).

[RangerSG]

David Gaider wrote...

I don't know what the issue is. But Alistair has dialogue to cover the fact that he may or may not know about the ritual -- or, if he does, he may not know about the purpose of the ritual.

The issue is at the gates, he shows a clear awareness of the ritual, whether or not he or the PC do it, and why you did it (to save your hides).

Then in the epilogue, he's clearly forgotten why he or the PC didn't die at the final blow.

At the gates, he'll say, "I know what you/I did with Morrigan was to save us. But we don't know that we won't die in the battle anyway (or words to that effect, I don't remember how he frames the "we don't know what's next" part). The clear meaning of the first sentence is he knows about the ritual and he knows why you choose to do it, regardless as to whether you do it or he does.

In the epilogue, he'll say: "So I guess the Grey Wardens were wrong about dying when you strike the final blow...?"
And he'll mention the Wardens of Orlais are asking questions. The PC can either cop to the ritual or say, "You don't want to know." Either way, Alistair is clearly, by this dialogue, oblivious to the ritual.

I assume the dialogue at the gates was only 'meant' to fire if Alistair went through the ritual. But it fires no matter what.

Modifié par RangerSG, 27 janvier 2010 - 09:48 .

[Knightsire]

Yes...this was a dialogue mishap, I think. Something is definately wrong with his sudden amnesia after obviously knowing what happened even though it should've been a private matter he didn't know about if you chose not to divulge such information.

[TheBlackBaron]

blademaster7 wrote...

The game shows the wrong dialogue when you speak to Alistair at the gates apparently.

I think it's for the best not to let anyone( unless you decide to convince Alistair/Loghain) know about the ritual.

I wouldn't imagine the rest of the Grey Wardens being content with it. And what about the chantry? If they found out you made a deal with an apostate and let her walk away with the soul of an old God they'll bury you, hero of Ferelden or not.

It's for the best not to let anyone know, really. That's why I'm wondering

Well, honestly...I just can't imagine not at least telling Alistair. Even if every other party member (besides Morrigan, obviously) plus Riordan is kept in the black, he probably needs to know if only to stop him from doing something stupid. Even if your character and Alistair despise each other, something of that magnitude really ought to be brought up.

I imagine the rest of the party may figure out you (or Alistair) and Morrigan did something, but they won't know any of the details. If it's just you an Alistair, that should keep the leaks plugged, since I highly doubt he'll want to go spreading it about.

Particularly since, by telling him, you'd be making him an accomplice if the Chantry or other Grey Wardens found out. Nothing like setting his own ass on the line to keep him quiet. :innocent:

[blademaster7]

I'm putting way too much thoughts into this things really. It may not have an impact at all but I still let my imagination go wild and think of the consequences of telling someone about it. 

I guess telling Alistair may not be so much of a big deal. He even goes through with the ritual himself in some peoples games(he ain't touching my woman in my saves hehe).

It's still something that has to be kept a secret from everyone else however.

Modifié par blademaster7, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:31 .

[Gold Dragon]

I have gotten Alistair to mention the Ritual with my Male Dalish Rogue. I somply took it to mean that during the trip to Denerim, I made mention that I had done a Magic Ritual with Morrigan, but gave no details other than that it would likely save my life.



Especially since, post corronation, I had the opportunity to say more about the Ritual, say I don't know, or something like you DON'T want to know. I chose the latter, and he said yes, probably not. He then asked where Morrigan went off to. I said something like good riddance. (mostly paraphrased). I think everyone can guess his reaction (Hardened Alistair, btw). But just in case: [BEEP] yeah!

[KurtCF]

I don't know. I think the mistake Alistar made was telling my character that the woman he loved being gone was good riddance. The noble human warrior just lost the last bit of "family" he knows of(he hadn't walked down the steps to see his brother off to the side0. Had this been a pen and paper game the end dialogue would have been very different. I can live with Ailstar not understanding just exactly what the ritual was supposed to do.

[blademaster7]

KurtCF wrote...

I don't know. I think the mistake Alistar made was telling my character that the woman he loved being gone was good riddance. The noble human warrior just lost the last bit of "family" he knows of(he hadn't walked down the steps to see his brother off to the side0. Had this been a pen and paper game the end dialogue would have been very different. I can live with Ailstar not understanding just exactly what the ritual was supposed to do.

You can tell him all you know about it if you want. But I didn't go that route, I didn't even speak to him.

Anyway, I found the problem. If Alistair is the one that goes through with the ritual he is fully aware how you both survived. He will talk to you at the gates and at the coronation about it.

If you're the one doing it, however without speaking to him he will mention the ritual at the gates. He isn't supposed to know at this point so it's probably a dialogue mess up. During the coronation he has no clue how you survived, which is how it's supposed to be, the mistake is earlier.

Modifié par blademaster7, 31 janvier 2010 - 08:09 .

[TheBlackBaron]

All the same, I think I'll stick with my personal narrative of Alistair knowing.



What's he say at the coronation if he does it?

[blademaster7]

TheBlackBaron wrote...



What's he say at the coronation if he does it?

He'll tell you that he knows that what happened that night(at redcliffe) was the reason you're both alive and he'll also suggest that the rest of the Grey Wardens shouldn'tknow about it.



If you do the ritual your self without telling him he'll say something like:



"I just can't understand how you're still alive. I guess Riordan was wrong?"

...

"I guess it will always remain a mystery"

[Ameraudur_]

Doesn't Flemeth say something like, "We believe what we want to believe" during Morrigan's personal quest? So true, so true!

[TheLion36]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm not the only one with this? It's probably glitched then.

Riordan died for nothing, Alistair is a king of a messed up Ferelden and I just let the most unmoral person in the world get away with the power of an old God. I'm such a jerk

I also had that glitch and wondered how he knew and then managed to forget again in the post-coronation, perhaps he looked through the keyhole when my character and Morrigan where talking about, then got hit on the head by the archdemon and forgot about the ritual again...

The situation with the old god soul depends how you look at it and what you expect she's going to do with that power... I completely trust Morrigan and I'm still very hopeful she'll suprise a lot of people and does something good with it, perhaps in some expansion this leads to 2 ways to end the blights for good, there might be some really hard solution (something about killing something or sacrificing something) or her child might besome sort of messiah that can end it all easier without sacrifice... who knows! 

Then again my trust in her might be my characters downfall at some point. I just hope that if she turns out to be evil in the end they'll give my character the option to go sit in the corner of a grey warden castle and cry his little broken heart out while the world gets ripped apart by whatever Bioware comes up with!