22 réponses à ce sujet

[krsboss]

ok, so I just levelled a mage taking only primal spells, with the aim of unlocking the all-primal achievement as fast as possible....well 8 hours 20 minutes of gameplay time later, tis unlocked! After Lothering, I headed to Warden's Keep to get the Winter's Breath staff, then completing the Crime Wave spree in Denerim I had enough cash to buy the arcane technique books in the Wonder's of Thedas and Circle Tower! ...heading to Redcliffe I cleared out the undead, entered the castle & made an agreement with the Desire Daemon to give me a tome to increase my talents....then having enough cash afterwards I was able to buy the 'final' arcane technique book from Bodahn to give me all the primal spells at level 10!

....I found playing with only primal spells pretty easy. Though you are missing out on useful spells from the other trees, being able to cause a lot of damage is helpful! ...I raced for cone of cold then stonefist, filling the rest of the spells in afterwards. Spells like blizzard & tempest were very useful for pt1 of the Redcliffe battle with the knights assisting...providing you can keep your allies out of the fire!

I didn't get to use Inferno as this was one of the last spells I took, however fireball can be pretty powerful if you use it right. Being able to pause the game and perfectly aim a spell is very handy! Also, chain lighting seems irratic in it's nature, using it on highly clustered enemies produces many more secondary bolts than enemies that are further spaced (very useful in the redcliffe village battle pt2 with the militia).

....at some point I will start a new character and move on to the creation school, however I can see this being more difficult than primal as there are very little direct damage spells in this school. Though having all the healing spells and good spell-combinations should make things easier! I think that the spirit school, however, would be the most difficult to complete in this fashion as there are many spells that are useless at these low levels and only have effect against casters, very few of which I would be facing!

...all in all I have found it quite a learning process and it's opened my eyes to a broader spell-use than I get from the mages in my party (Wynne / Morrigan)...I think once I've 'learnt' all the spell-schools, I'll play a mage trying to combine all that I would have learnt (though I think that I may have to shoot myself if I play the mage origin story 5 times consecutively)!...

...anyway, thanks for reading....krs

[Mr_Raider]

Go all out entropy! It's the best school.

[dkjestrup]

Nah, the only good part about Entrophy is Sleep and Affliction Hex. Miasma for an Arcane Warrior.

Spirit is where it's at (Virulent Walking Bomb, Mana Clash, Crushing Prison, Forcefield, Spell Shield and Spell Might.

The best CC comes from the Glyph line anyways.

Modifié par dkjestrup, 26 janvier 2010 - 02:30 .

[Treason1]

Meh..I found Virulent Walking Bomb to not really be worth it. Rarely did it affect more than the single enemy I placed it on.

[beancounter501]

dkjestrup wrote...

Nah, the only good part about Entrophy is Sleep and Affliction Hex. Miasma for an Arcane Warrior.

Spirit is where it's at (Virulent Walking Bomb, Mana Clash, Crushing Prison, Forcefield, Spell Shield and Spell Might.

The best CC comes from the Glyph line anyways.

Not really seeing Miasma as being that effective for an Arcane Warrior. Wouldn't Heroic Offense be better?  It is soo cheap and you get (Spell Power + 100) *.1 bonus to attack for 20 seconds.  Miasama is a pretty expensive for only a +10 to hit.  But then again I have never played in Arcane Warrior so I am curious why you think it is a good sustain for three talents.

Edit to the OP:  sorry for the hijack!  Congrats on using all the primal spells.  Perhaps I should try that because I currently only use mages as mostly heal bots.  Which I know is one of the worst ways to play a mage.  I just hate friendly fire.

Modifié par beancounter501, 26 janvier 2010 - 03:14 .

[dkjestrup]

It debuffs enemy attack and defense, so you hit more AND get hit less. Also, Mass Paralyze is alright (I find it better to sleep the enemies first, so you have time to cast it).

[SusanStoHelit]

If you don't want to do it over and over with different mages, why bother? You don't have to if you're on pc, you can just use the respec mod to shift all those primal points to entropy, and then to spirit, and so on.

[soteria]

Miasma is good. What I've been doing is turning off all my mage sustains at the end of the fight, and then turn them back on once I expend some mana, making miasma free, whereas heroic offense/defense can add up. Plus, it applies to the whole group. I have to agree that if I could only take one school, it would be entropy. Multiple forms of crowd control and damage; I'll buy that. Spirit is definitely pretty strong when used correctly.

[krsboss]

beancounter501 wrote...

I currently only use mages as mostly heal bots.  Which I know is one of the worst ways to play a mage.  I just hate friendly fire.

On all my complete playthroughs I've used mages as heal-bots & minor crowd control accessories, however using pause is very helpful for avoiding friendly fire. If you want to fireball some foes, make sure they are running towards where you are going to be casting it, whilst if you are using a cone of cold, target where your enemies are going to be, allowing for casting time!

SusanStoHelit wrote...

If you don't want to do it over and over with different mages, why bother? You don't have to if you're on pc, you can just use the respec mod to shift all those primal points to entropy, and then to spirit, and so on.

I play on the PC, however see little point in using respec-ing just to gain achievements, I have a level 22 mage I could easily respec to gain the achievements, however by doing so, what have I learnt?

By playing a primal only mage I've learnt a lot about the spells that make up the school and how to use them in combination. Though I've done all I wanted to achieve with this character by level 10, it will still help me when I play a mage through the whole campaign! 

[x-president]

krsboss wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...

If you don't want to do it over and over with different mages, why bother? You don't have to if you're on pc, you can just use the respec mod to shift all those primal points to entropy, and then to spirit, and so on.

I play on the PC, however see little point in using respec-ing just to gain achievements, I have a level 22 mage I could easily respec to gain the achievements, however by doing so, what have I learnt?

By playing a primal only mage I've learnt a lot about the spells that make up the school and how to use them in combination. Though I've done all I wanted to achieve with this character by level 10, it will still help me when I play a mage through the whole campaign! 

Agreed.  The best way to learn a spell is to use it and limit yourself to finding ways on using.  There is a situation for all spells to make them work.


When you went all primal, did you increase willpower more then usual?  Those AoE spells tend to soak up mana.  I would think a higher then normal willpower level would be beneficial.

[Erakleitos]

Treason1 wrote...

Meh..I found Virulent Walking Bomb to not really be worth it. Rarely did it affect more than the single enemy I placed it on.

Try this: take your tank, with taunt up. Pull the whole room of enemies and provoke. Now with your mage forcefield him, cast virulent walking bomb on a white mob, and attack him till he explode. Now sit and watch all the other mobs exploding.

[Mr_Raider]

Erakleitos wrote...

Treason1 wrote...

Meh..I found Virulent Walking Bomb to not really be worth it. Rarely did it affect more than the single enemy I placed it on.

Try this: take your tank, with taunt up. Pull the whole room of enemies and provoke. Now with your mage forcefield him, cast virulent walking bomb on a white mob, and attack him till he explode. Now sit and watch all the other mobs exploding.

That's one application. I also found it wrecks havoc on archers who stand around in the same place in groups. I slaughtered the Denerim guards with that spell. With simmering shield up, an AW can stand in the middle of the bomb cluster and come out alive.

It requires far more finesse and strategy than storm of the century or inferno, but it's next best spell to get the 250+ achievement after mana clash.

An for those not impressed by entropy, it is the most versatile school in IMHO. Sleep stacks with horror and nightmare. There are three spell combos that the school can do (entropic death, improved drain, waking nightmare). I agree that the paralysis/miasma line is the weakest, but the other three are gold.

This time around I'm playing an AW that's going for 16/16 entropy spells. Why? Cause it's fun!

[Poopsock]

Spirit School is very enjoyable. I went with the Death line first and found the Animate Dead Spell to be quite fun. The undead archers were the most effective for me. The Virulent Bomb spells require much more micro-management than say Primal AoE. I recommend a party of 3 ranged DPS and a tank with massive agro and spirit resist.

The Telekinesis line was the most useful with Mind Blast, Force Field (I used it often on myself and others. In fact mobs didn't always drop agro immediately and my DPS could plink away at the mobs as they attacked a force fielded tank), and Crushing Prison is, hands down, the best single target, DPS/CC spell in the game.

The Mana Alteration line really doesn't shine until you get Mana Clash. It will one shot a group of mages 90% of the time. A-mazing.

Sadly, the Anti-Magic line is the most disappointing of any line from any of the schools. Most tanks should have high resists anyway and I found the Friendly Fire dispels to make this line almost useless.

The Spirit School is not for the min/max'er though. Primal and Mana Clash is the Min/Max DPS Mage.

Modifié par Poopsock, 26 janvier 2010 - 05:58 .

[Erakleitos]

Agree with Poopsock.



Anyways i have to say that spirit have very good spells, and a lot of unuseful spells (if you are a full spirit mage):



1) Why bothering casting Mana Cleanse at all once you get Mana Clash?

2) Who ever used Mana Drain if not for testing?

3) Death Syphon.. this spell would be useful if there wasn't lyrium potions in the game.

4) Spell Shield, Dispel Magic, Anti Magic Ward ad Burst... Why using them if you can oneshot every mage (i took Zathrian at 50% with one Mana Clash) with an instant cast spell?

[Poopsock]

Whoops!  I meant Mana Clash not Cleanse!   

[beancounter501]

While I am no expert in combining spells I was doing some testing last night and found some uses for Anti-Magic Ward. It is 10 second protection against all spells - including your own! So cast Ward on yourself then drop a Glyph combo point blank. Instant paralysis for any critter nearby for 20 seconds. Then use your favorite AOE DoT spell. Best used with your party waiting around the corner.



If your party gets swarmed you could use the Ward + Glyph Combo to paralyze everyone. Including your own party. Then use dispel magic on your main DPS character. Dispel Magic has a 2 second cooldown so you could easily get rid of the paralyze effect on the whole party. Then start chopping away



Lastly you could use Ward + fireball for some point blank fun. Probably even better if you have two other mages who can cast fireball at you too!



I am also thinking of using a Glyph of Neutralization on your main tank right after he taunts. Then start dropping AoE spells right on top. I don't think the Glyph will cancel the AOE spells. But it should make him completely immune to magic. Kind of like the force field trick without feeling so cheesy. Something to check latter on!

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

5 times in a row with the mage origin? that's nothing. I don't even know how many times I've done it. gah...

Full primal is the first of the mage achievements I got, too. On PC, I'm noticing that the AoE spells don't help as much as they did on 360. I think Full Creation and Entropy are gonna be the hardest for me. Spirit, as somebody else said, can be quite good when you know how to use it. Like, if you're the last one (or the only one), cast walking bomb and virul. walking bomb on two different weakened enemies, let them kinda surround you, and force field yourself. hopefully the bombs go off during the FF, and it keeps you alive while whittling away at them if massively outnumbered.

Entropy and Creation just don't do much for offense early on, is my main problem with them ATM. when I go for the achievements, I'll figure it out though...

[KariTR]

Thanks krs, you have given me inspiration for another way to play while waiting for the DLC/expansion

[Mr_Raider]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...
Entropy and Creation just don't do much for offense early on, is my main problem with them ATM. when I go for the achievements, I'll figure it out though...

Actually, the first spell I picked up was hex 1 and 2. They double teh damage of arcane bolt, and even make your staff bolt a dangerous weapon.

[Poopsock]

beancounter501 wrote...

...cast Ward on yourself then drop a Glyph combo point blank. Instant paralysis for any critter nearby for 20 seconds. Then use your favorite AOE DoT spell...

Good call!  And I had had given up on that line entirely.   If the cooldown were shorter for FF this could be used consistently.

[Poopsock]

Poopsock wrote...

beancounter501 wrote...

...cast Ward on yourself then drop a Glyph combo point blank. Instant paralysis for any critter nearby for 20 seconds. Then use your favorite AOE DoT spell...

Good call!  And I had given up on that line entirely.   If the cooldown were shorter for FF this could be used consistently.

[Poopsock]

beancounter501 wrote...

...cast Ward on yourself then drop a Glyph combo point blank. Instant paralysis for any critter nearby for 20 seconds. Then use your favorite AOE DoT spell...

Good call!  And I had given up on that line entirely.   If the cooldown were shorter for FF this could be used consistently.

Modifié par Poopsock, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:48 .

[beancounter501]

Alas, in actual test spell ward did not protect against Glyph Combo. Bummer. It does protect against Fireball. However, dispel magic does canel the paralysis effect.



You could still friendly fire your party with the Glyph Combo. Just make sure your Mage with Dispel Magic is out of the radius. Should not be that hard.