How did Anora know that the highly secretive Joining Ritual was potentially fatal? If you get the proposition from Riordan to let Loghain undergo the joining, when Allistair spazzes about it, Anora states about how the ritual can be fatal, if he dies then Allistair gets his justice but if not then they get a new warden ally.
This randomly bugged me on my second playthrough, as the first time I didn't get the post duel dialogue as I let Allistair fight for himself.
Was this an overlooked plot hole?
How did Anora Know about... (landsmeet post duel event spoilers)
Débuté par
Azure Zero
, janv. 26 2010 12:16
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#2
Guest_SwishiestB0g_*
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:18
Guest_SwishiestB0g_*
Guest_SwishiestB0g_*
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It's not. The majority of people do not know, being Queen I'm sure has perks though.
#3
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:25
jsachun
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She probably knows due to Cailan's fascination with the wardens. Cailan may have known & He probably told her.
Modifié par jsachun, 26 janvier 2010 - 12:30 .
#4
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:28
TheBlackBaron
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SwishiestB0g wrote...
It's not. The majority of people do not know, being Queen I'm sure has perks though.
This.
Maybe she learned it from Loghain as an example of how "evil" the Grey Wardens are?
#5
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:34
RangerSG
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Or maybe Riordin and her had a chance to talk about it.
I would not be surprised if Anora talked to Riordin behind the scenes trying to look for ways to save her father's life. It also makes the most sense when you think of how they could've come up with a sample of Archdemon's blood.
I would not be surprised if Anora talked to Riordin behind the scenes trying to look for ways to save her father's life. It also makes the most sense when you think of how they could've come up with a sample of Archdemon's blood.
#6
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:36
Godak
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Anora is queen. She knows queenly stuff.
...Like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie-roll pop!
...Like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie-roll pop!
#8
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:39
ReubenLiew
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I think everyone knows the Joining is dangerous, which is why people wish you luck when you undertake it. They just don't know the specifics, and how random it actually is.
#9
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:39
Treason1
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Could be a plot hole.
Remember Sir Jory?
Remember Sir Jory?
#10
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:39
Godak
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SusanStoHelit wrote...
Or maybe it's a plot-hole.
Shush-ity shush shush shush!
#11
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 12:45
Topher87
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Through advance studies, all of them quite unorthodox, I have come to the conclusion that Anora is indeed.. The Maker.
#12
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:02
SusanStoHelit
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I'm sorry; I'm willing to use logic, to reason, to search. But there just is no other explanation that really 'holds water' here. Jory must die in order to keep the ritual secret - but Anora knows about it (at least enough to know her daddy dearest might die)? Puh-leeze!
Yes, in the real world there might be ways around it, Riordan talking to her and so on (why would he, when he didn't talk to us, the other Grey Wardens?). But there is no ingame evidence for such. She knows - perhaps she's psychic? perhaps she's a prophet of the Maker, Andraste II? Perhaps her administrative talents give her uncanny insights into Warden rituals.
It's simply a hole - and a small one. No biggie. It's not the end of the world. Here have a tissue *passes around a box of Kleenex*. Now wipe your eyes and have a big blow. ;-)
Yes, in the real world there might be ways around it, Riordan talking to her and so on (why would he, when he didn't talk to us, the other Grey Wardens?). But there is no ingame evidence for such. She knows - perhaps she's psychic? perhaps she's a prophet of the Maker, Andraste II? Perhaps her administrative talents give her uncanny insights into Warden rituals.
It's simply a hole - and a small one. No biggie. It's not the end of the world. Here have a tissue *passes around a box of Kleenex*. Now wipe your eyes and have a big blow. ;-)
#13
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:05
wwwwowwww
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Funny thing is that everyone is going to justify her knowing to fit their argument. My opinion it's just a plot hole of sorts. I mean it does make sense that Lohgain would know and she learned it from him or Cailen, but everyone who justifies Lohgains actions will argue that he didn't even know that the Grey Wardens were needed to kill the archdemon. Pretty weak argument considering, but eh.....
More than likely, as it appears to me, everyone knows a lot more about the Wardens than you do as evidence by a lot of different dialogues throughout the game with various people.
More than likely, as it appears to me, everyone knows a lot more about the Wardens than you do as evidence by a lot of different dialogues throughout the game with various people.
#14
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:08
What a Twist
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I bet she knows how many licks it takes to do other things too.Godak wrote...
Anora is queen. She knows queenly stuff.
...Like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie-roll pop!
#15
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:11
EthanDirtch
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In out-of-fiction reasoning, it probably is a simple oversight. As awesome BioWare guys are, they're human too (most of them...I hope...). It's natural to over look something. Like...when Teagan said he was staying in Redcliffe while you go save Denerim with Eamon, and yet there Teagan was in the final battle. And how Riordan looks remarkably like the Kennel Master from Ostagar. lol
Within fiction, I could easily (how ever circumstantially) say that Anora is a very resourceful and sneaky woman. She's smart, aggressive, practically ran Ferelden when Cailan was king. She also has Cailan (who hero-worships the Wardens, and tried frantically to pad his place in history), and Loghain himself (who in The Calling had extensive interaction with the Wardens, including Duncan). Cailan would want to learn as much as possible of the Wardens because he loves them; Loghain would want to learn as much as possible of the Wardens because he believes them to be an Orlesian threat. It's not a stretch that either of these individuals shared this information with good queen Anora, aside from her own resources.
The only thing I think no one knew about was the mandatory need to have a true Grey Warden to kill an archdemon.
Within fiction, I could easily (how ever circumstantially) say that Anora is a very resourceful and sneaky woman. She's smart, aggressive, practically ran Ferelden when Cailan was king. She also has Cailan (who hero-worships the Wardens, and tried frantically to pad his place in history), and Loghain himself (who in The Calling had extensive interaction with the Wardens, including Duncan). Cailan would want to learn as much as possible of the Wardens because he loves them; Loghain would want to learn as much as possible of the Wardens because he believes them to be an Orlesian threat. It's not a stretch that either of these individuals shared this information with good queen Anora, aside from her own resources.
The only thing I think no one knew about was the mandatory need to have a true Grey Warden to kill an archdemon.
#16
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:20
Godak
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SusanStoHelit wrote...
Now wipe your eyes and have a big blow. ;-)
Am I allowed to take that the wrong way? No?
*Sigh*
Fine, fine...
#17
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:21
TheBlackBaron
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wwwwowwww wrote...
Funny thing is that everyone is going to justify her knowing to fit their argument. My opinion it's just a plot hole of sorts. I mean it does make sense that Lohgain would know and she learned it from him or Cailen, but everyone who justifies Lohgains actions will argue that he didn't even know that the Grey Wardens were needed to kill the archdemon. Pretty weak argument considering, but eh.....
Well, to be fair, even the Warden and Alistair didn't know that they were literally necessary to kill the Archdemon. It'd be no surprise if Loghain knew at least a few details about the Joining ritual and figured it was merely a way of giving the Wardens an edge against the Darkspawn.
#18
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:24
Realmzmaster
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I doubt that Riordan would speak to Anora about it. In Redcliffe Castle he tells the PC and Loghain to meet him for Grey Warden business to explain how the ArchDemon is killed.
But Duncan has been recruiting Grey Wardens and some of them had family and relatives who knew what they were doing. Even in an order as sercertive as the Grey Wardens information and rumor get out.
Anora could be acting on rumor or partial information gathered by spies. Wynne appears to know some (if not all) of the Grey Warden secrets. But being a Circle mage she would have access to information not available to the general public. The Queen could have sources not mentioned in the game. It could be a plot hole or maybe the writers left it that way to arouse our interest, A WTF moment!
But Duncan has been recruiting Grey Wardens and some of them had family and relatives who knew what they were doing. Even in an order as sercertive as the Grey Wardens information and rumor get out.
Anora could be acting on rumor or partial information gathered by spies. Wynne appears to know some (if not all) of the Grey Warden secrets. But being a Circle mage she would have access to information not available to the general public. The Queen could have sources not mentioned in the game. It could be a plot hole or maybe the writers left it that way to arouse our interest, A WTF moment!
#19
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:28
wwwwowwww
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
wwwwowwww wrote...
Funny thing is that everyone is going to justify her knowing to fit their argument. My opinion it's just a plot hole of sorts. I mean it does make sense that Lohgain would know and she learned it from him or Cailen, but everyone who justifies Lohgains actions will argue that he didn't even know that the Grey Wardens were needed to kill the archdemon. Pretty weak argument considering, but eh.....
Well, to be fair, even the Warden and Alistair didn't know that they were literally necessary to kill the Archdemon. It'd be no surprise if Loghain knew at least a few details about the Joining ritual and figured it was merely a way of giving the Wardens an edge against the Darkspawn.
How would he know? That's the most secretive part apparantly, with people being killed who refused to go through it after learning about it?
The fact that Cailen outright says that the grey wardens are there specifically for if/when the archdemon shows up, it would stand to reason that he would know about the archdemon tidbit before the joining ritual.
Also from what I gather, Alistair did know that only a Grey Warden could kill the archdemon, he just wasn't aware of the specifics behind why or what would happen when they did kill it.
#20
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:29
RangerSG
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Realmzmaster wrote...
I doubt that Riordan would speak to Anora about it. In Redcliffe Castle he tells the PC and Loghain to meet him for Grey Warden business to explain how the ArchDemon is killed.
But Duncan has been recruiting Grey Wardens and some of them had family and relatives who knew what they were doing. Even in an order as sercertive as the Grey Wardens information and rumor get out.
Anora could be acting on rumor or partial information gathered by spies. Wynne appears to know some (if not all) of the Grey Warden secrets. But being a Circle mage she would have access to information not available to the general public. The Queen could have sources not mentioned in the game. It could be a plot hole or maybe the writers left it that way to arouse our interest, A WTF moment!
You don't think Anora would be talking with anyone she could to figure out a way to save her father?
And you don't think a politician as skilled as Anora could figure out that the very best way to unite Ferelden is to have her father join the very organization he sought to destroy?
And given that, who else is she going to go to talk to about this with? Two junior Grey Wardens, one of whom she won't talk to 'anything' about, the other she's not sure she can trust yet. Or a senior Grey Warden who is the one person who has no serious stake in anything but stopping the Blight?
I'd say that if Anora is half as shrewd as people make her out to be, there's no reason to think she did not speak to Riordin.
Modifié par RangerSG, 26 janvier 2010 - 01:29 .
#21
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:33
Dennis Carpenter
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Obviously riordan let it slip while he was bonking Anora cuz he had to explain why she wouldnt have to worry about getting pregnant and he was going to probably die anyway.
#22
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:35
KariTR
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EthanDirtch wrote...
In out-of-fiction reasoning, it probably is a simple oversight. As awesome BioWare guys are, they're human too (most of them...I hope...). It's natural to over look something. Like...when Teagan said he was staying in Redcliffe while you go save Denerim with Eamon, and yet there Teagan was in the final battle.
Ive never had Teagan at the final battle! Or maybe there was too much going on to notice
#23
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:43
TheBlackBaron
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wwwwowwww wrote...
TheBlackBaron wrote...
wwwwowwww wrote...
Funny thing is that everyone is going to justify her knowing to fit their argument. My opinion it's just a plot hole of sorts. I mean it does make sense that Lohgain would know and she learned it from him or Cailen, but everyone who justifies Lohgains actions will argue that he didn't even know that the Grey Wardens were needed to kill the archdemon. Pretty weak argument considering, but eh.....
Well, to be fair, even the Warden and Alistair didn't know that they were literally necessary to kill the Archdemon. It'd be no surprise if Loghain knew at least a few details about the Joining ritual and figured it was merely a way of giving the Wardens an edge against the Darkspawn.
How would he know? That's the most secretive part apparantly, with people being killed who refused to go through it after learning about it?
The fact that Cailen outright says that the grey wardens are there specifically for if/when the archdemon shows up, it would stand to reason that he would know about the archdemon tidbit before the joining ritual.
Also from what I gather, Alistair did know that only a Grey Warden could kill the archdemon, he just wasn't aware of the specifics behind why or what would happen when they did kill it.
He's a highly analytical soldier driven to find out anything and everything about an individual or a group he regards as a threat. He's also an extremely powerful man very close to the royals.
It's not much of a stretch.
#24
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:49
wwwwowwww
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
wwwwowwww wrote...
TheBlackBaron wrote...
wwwwowwww wrote...
Funny thing is that everyone is going to justify her knowing to fit their argument. My opinion it's just a plot hole of sorts. I mean it does make sense that Lohgain would know and she learned it from him or Cailen, but everyone who justifies Lohgains actions will argue that he didn't even know that the Grey Wardens were needed to kill the archdemon. Pretty weak argument considering, but eh.....
Well, to be fair, even the Warden and Alistair didn't know that they were literally necessary to kill the Archdemon. It'd be no surprise if Loghain knew at least a few details about the Joining ritual and figured it was merely a way of giving the Wardens an edge against the Darkspawn.
How would he know? That's the most secretive part apparantly, with people being killed who refused to go through it after learning about it?
The fact that Cailen outright says that the grey wardens are there specifically for if/when the archdemon shows up, it would stand to reason that he would know about the archdemon tidbit before the joining ritual.
Also from what I gather, Alistair did know that only a Grey Warden could kill the archdemon, he just wasn't aware of the specifics behind why or what would happen when they did kill it.
He's a highly analytical soldier driven to find out anything and everything about an individual or a group he regards as a threat. He's also an extremely powerful man very close to the royals.
It's not much of a stretch.
GIven that then it stands to reason that he would know why the or at least that, the wardens were NEEDED to kill the archdemon. Thank you for proving my point.
#25
Posté 26 janvier 2010 - 01:55
TheBlackBaron
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[quote]wwwwowwww wrote...
He's a highly analytical soldier driven to find out anything and everything about an individual or a group he regards as a threat. He's also an extremely powerful man very close to the royals.
It's not much of a stretch.
[/quote]
GIven that then it stands to reason that he would know why the or at least that, the wardens were NEEDED to kill the archdemon. Thank you for proving my point.
[/quote]
tbh I won't rule anything out. However, if he did in fact know that the Wardens were literally required to kill the Archdemon - it wasn't just hyperbole reflecting their prowess - then, given Loghain's personality and past history, especially the arrogance, he would probably assume he could simply find another way to kill it for good without the Wardens.
And that was your original point, yes? That the argument that he didn't know they were necessary was weak?
He's a highly analytical soldier driven to find out anything and everything about an individual or a group he regards as a threat. He's also an extremely powerful man very close to the royals.
It's not much of a stretch.
[/quote]
GIven that then it stands to reason that he would know why the or at least that, the wardens were NEEDED to kill the archdemon. Thank you for proving my point.
[/quote]
tbh I won't rule anything out. However, if he did in fact know that the Wardens were literally required to kill the Archdemon - it wasn't just hyperbole reflecting their prowess - then, given Loghain's personality and past history, especially the arrogance, he would probably assume he could simply find another way to kill it for good without the Wardens.
And that was your original point, yes? That the argument that he didn't know they were necessary was weak?
