266 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkledorf]

Here's what I came up with.  These proportions look good to me, I haven't measured.  I will, however, have to recreate it as I tried to skip the intro and ended up in never never land.

[Hellosanta]

@Hellosanta Your Quizzy’s eyes look a tinge too far apart I think. I think its her fringe, but her frontal view reminds me a bit of a wide eyed pug. Also you can move your lip a little bit up as well. If it went a little lower, it would look similar to a monkey's mouth, height wise. Or maybe change the lip shape so it doesn't look that squished.

 

Also nice to see another Skyrim modder moving onto DA.

 

@Aleithnan Your inquisitor is starting to remind me of Olivia Wilde. You should tilt her nose tip or nostrils down though. It looks like someone shoved their fingers up her nostrils and it’s a bit distracting, no offence. xD Improved a lot on the eyes and jaw line though. 

 

Well I'd say her jaw/chin could be a bit longer (I also wish I made her jaw/chin a bit wider, in fact) but still, her lips are positioned in the right place (in accordance with the proportion guideline). I didn't really get the impression that her lips are positioned low, perhaps because I'm asian so I see things a bit differently. I found that western people tend to prefer longer lower jaw than asians.

For the eyes, I think it's the shape of the eye that kinda gives such impression. If you measure the length between two eyes, it is almost identical to the length of one eye, which is also ideal proportion.

 

I actually started modding with DAO and Skyrim came after that

[day83]

After far too many attempts making a female elf, this is the final result.

 

[sumojellybean]

@HelloSanta

 

Hmm but the more I look at the eyes the more I think it might actually be the eyeball highlights, my bad. I would personally would have knocked down the eye size though, but our tastes differ.

 

Still, I think her mouth still feels squished. If not mouth height, then it’s the mouth width/ where the upper lip is. The philtrum is directly placed beneath the nostrils that it makes me see this. 

 

 

 

Its a bit hard to explain but that bottom point of the triangle is a bit too harsh/ too close to the lip edges. The lips needs to be a bit wider to have more breathing space/make the face more grounded.

 

Our tastes are probably different though to agree to disagree. I remember your Skyrim work was different from mine, so there’s that. xD

[Hellosanta]

@HelloSanta

 

Hmm but the more I look at the eyes the more I think it might actually be the eyeball highlights, my bad. I would personally would have knocked down the eye size though, but our tastes differ.

 

Still, I think her mouth still feels squished. If not mouth height, then it’s the mouth width/ where the upper lip is. The philtrum is directly placed beneath the nostrils that it makes me see this. 

 

*snip*

 

 

IMO, that bottom point of the triangle is a bit too harsh and the lips needs to be a bit wider to have more breathing space/make the face more grounded.

 

Our tastes are probably different though to agree to disagree. I remember your Skyrim work was different from mine, so there’s that. xD

 

Yeah, I initially thought those eyes are way too big, so i actually sized it down quite a lot. I think that wider-looking eye shape just don't help, though I like it's half-moon shape. 

 

I think lips look a bit squished because of the shape for sure. As you mention it, I can't unsee this.   I like somewhat pouting lips and my own lips were pretty narrow, so, let's move on lol

 

I guess my preference is set to more .. ideal .. asian beauty standard which is big eyes, small nose, small lips and narrow chin for girls. I usually try to stick with it unless I decide to make celebrity look-alike.

[TBSN]

some info:

 

 

 

[sumojellybean]

I guess my preference is set to more .. ideal .. asian beauty standard which is big eyes, small nose, small lips and narrow chin for girls. I usually try to stick with it unless I decide to make celebrity look-alike.

 

Yeah I kind of get impression that from most people’s works. Influenced by a lot of anime or celebrity beauties and just stick to an ideal.

 

Not my cup of tea personally because that gets boring very fast. I like to make characters that don’t need to be beautiful, but have realistic flaws and features that makes them look unique and not a clone copy. (Point in case my two Quizzies here old Skyrim stuff is a better example)

 

Spoiler

 

 In consequence my work is different/takes more hours to make from what you usually see on the Nexus, but not that popular because it isn't as appealing. Can’t blame much for unpopular tastes I guess. xD

 

 

 

@Dinkledorf. You need to make your nose bigger and shift it down closer to the mouth. Can’t say much else unless its turned to a frontal view.

 

@Day83 Your elf looks cute in that view, but you need to make her lips wider and change her lipstick color, I think.

 

*now will try to zip my mouth permanently and stop spamming with too much feedback*

[Arngeld]

So I decided to check to see how the final result of 39 hours worth of eyeballing it did against the guidelines in this thread.

 

 

 

Not too bad overall.  The eyes may be a touch high according to the guidelines, but it isn't enough to bother me.  Against the measurements, they also seem too far apart, but any closer would look weird, so I'm guessing what that really means is that the eyes could be a bit larger.  Again, not something I'd likely change on this particular face.

 

I might try making another character making use of the guidelines first(as well as the grid overlay software I posted on page 1), but by and large I'm satisfied with my results.

[Aleithian]

Dangit. Your final corrected version on the original post now looks awesome.  I'm almost tempted to scrap my 20 hours and reroll... but NO.  Must resist!  I will ride my Inquisitor straight through the uncanny valley all the way to the end of this game!  Or until BW releases some means of adjusting characters in-game.  Sigh.

 

Thanks again for the research and for posting the results.

 

Lol. Resist! I have to resist making changes to my characters too. If Bioware adds an in-game editor though...

[Aleithian]

@Aleithnan Your inquisitor is starting to remind me of Olivia Wilde. You should tilt her nose tip or nostrils down though. It looks like someone shoved their fingers up her nostrils and it’s a bit distracting, no offence. xD You can also make the nose bridge or nostrils a teeny bit wider. Improved a lot on the eyes and jaw line though. 

 

Yeah, there's a variety of small edits that I need to make. But I'll be setting that character aside until Bioware adds more hairstyles. And if they don't I'll have to adjust the face for the hairstyles we have.

[Aleithian]

Here's what I came up with.  These proportions look good to me, I haven't measured.  I will, however, have to recreate it as I tried to skip the intro and ended up in never never land.

 

 

That's pretty much perfect. You have a good eye. It's hard to tell at this angle, but the eyes may be a smudge too far apart. But as I said in the original post, these proportions are just statistical, so they're a rough guide. Your character looks beautiful as is.

[Monica21]

Lol. Resist! I have to resist making changes to my characters too. If Bioware adds an in-game editor though...

 

Hah, THIS! My character's face is too long and her cheekbones are too wide. She's fine, I guess, but I'll have to do better on my second playthrough. But, if this manages to get done anytime soon, I'll definitely be starting a new character.

[Aleithian]

Well I'd say her jaw/chin could be a bit longer (I also wish I made her jaw/chin a bit wider, in fact) but still, her lips are positioned in the right place (in accordance with the proportion guideline). I didn't really get the impression that her lips are positioned low, perhaps because I'm asian so I see things a bit differently. I found that western people tend to prefer longer lower jaw than asians.

For the eyes, I think it's the shape of the eye that kinda gives such impression. If you measure the length between two eyes, it is almost identical to the length of one eye, which is also ideal proportion.

 

I actually started modding with DAO and Skyrim came after that

 

"Model" Asian faces tend to be rounder than "model" Caucasian faces, which tend to emphasize generally "Scandinavian" features (longer face, stronger jaw, sharp eyelines). There's no question that our pre-conceptions affect the characters we create. But really, this just emphasizes the point that these proportions are statistics. Individuals don't always obey them. For instance, sub-Saharan Africans tend to have a mouth placed farther forward on the face, thicker lips, and wider mouths, so those statistics would change if you measured just that demographic.

 

This is why I said the determination of your character's beauty always depends on your own taste and idiosyncracies.

 

If the distance between the eyes is proportionally perfect, then it's likely the roundness of the face that's giving the impression of width (i.e. a visual illusion). As I said in an earlier post, it's almost impossible to portray accurate facial height/width proportion given the restrictions we have. For instance, the second character I posted appears to have a very long face, especially with her current hairstyle and high hairline. But in fact, statistically, she doesn't have anywhere near a long face. The upshot is that your character has a very round face by human standards, even when considering Asians. So you could easily extend the jaw down and adjust the other measurements accordingly without violating realism.

[Aleithian]

After far too many attempts making a female elf, this is the final result.

 

 

Lovely! Just my personal opinion, but this is one of the best elves I've seen. The jawline and upper nose bridge maintain a certain 'bone-iness' that's characteristic of Bioware elves, while the mouth and eyes add a touch of human softness. I've love to see some other in-game shots of her.

[Aleithian]

some info:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Amazing to see how these proportions are validated even in different racial groups.

 

It's also interesting to note (in connection with my post just above) that the roundness of the "model" Asian face is apparent here. These pictures seem to suggest that the roundness is achieved not by chaning the facial proportions, but through the following factors:

 

1. Jawline is down and out.

2. Cheeks are full and pronounced.

3. Eyes are a touch forward relative to "model" Caucasian faces and of course have the fold.

4. The nose is flat relative to "model" Caucasian faces and the bridge is wider.

 

So again, there's a softness presented here that contrasts the sharpness presented by "model" Scandinavian Caucasians.

[Aleithian]

So I decided to check to see how the final result of 39 hours worth of eyeballing it did against the guidelines in this thread.

 

Not too bad overall.  The eyes may be a touch high according to the guidelines, but it isn't enough to bother me.  Against the measurements, they also seem too far apart, but any closer would look weird, so I'm guessing what that really means is that the eyes could be a bit larger.  Again, not something I'd likely change on this particular face.

 

I might try making another character making use of the guidelines first(as well as the grid overlay software I posted on page 1), but by and large I'm satisfied with my results.

 

It's definitely not worth changing the character to achieve perfect proportion here. My primary character lacks proportion, but it works. It would be interesting to run a test on your character though and compare a proportionate version to the original.

[Aleithian]

Hah, THIS! My character's face is too long and her cheekbones are too wide. She's fine, I guess, but I'll have to do better on my second playthrough. But, if this manages to get done anytime soon, I'll definitely be starting a new character.

 

Holy crap! I don't follow many other parts of the forum in order to avoid potential spoilers, so I missed this. If these three hairstyles are in the game code, there's likely a bunch more that Adela hasn't found yet. I wonder if Bioware intended to unlock these in DLC? This bodes well for modding at least.

[Aleithian]

I wish I had your attitude. See, I'm kind of crazy/OCD, I think. Little details can drive me nuts after awhile.

 

I'm totally OCD about my character faces. I've spent about 25 hours in the creation system so far, and about the same in the actual game. That's why I have to force myself to resist the urge to change the small details. An in-game character editor would really help relieve my OCD!

[Monica21]

Holy crap! I don't follow many other parts of the forum in order to avoid potential spoilers, so I missed this. If these three hairstyles are in the game code, there's likely a bunch more that Adela hasn't found yet. I wonder if Bioware intended to unlock these in DLC? This bodes well for modding at least.

 

From what I understood, she found the codes that referenced hair. The models she showed are ones she hopes to, I think, replace in-game if she can figure out the coding structure.

[Aleithian]

Ah I stand corrected. We're in the same boat.

 

It's actually one of the main reasons I started this research into facial proportion. I was getting pissed at my inability to craft a female character that worked in-game. With the research and testing that I've done, it's become super easy to craft a working female now, which frees me to tweak other features to achieve the kind of beauty I want to see in the character. Maybe an analogy would help: now, when creating a character, I basically work like I'm crafting a head out of clay. I chop away at the default by placing all the major facial elements in their proper place and ensuring proportionality, then I tweak and shape the details (like eyes, mouth, nose, cheeks) to achieve precisely what I want. At all times, maintaining proportion helps immensely - it gives me the anchor I needed.

 

But those details...that's where the difference between bland and beautiful lies. And that's why I need an in-game CC.

[Aleithian]

From what I understood, she found the codes that referenced hair. The models she showed are ones she hopes to, I think, replace in-game if she can figure out the coding structure.

 

Ahhhh, gotcha. I don't understand game coding.

[Hellosanta]

From what I understood, she found the codes that referenced hair. The models she showed are ones she hopes to, I think, replace in-game if she can figure out the coding structure.

 

There are so much more than that. I believe unique NPCs have their own headmesh (head shape), so simply replacing CC hairs with those will more likely make hideous hair and head clipping for PC.

 

In order to make custom hair available, 1) decrypt the coding structure and extract both CC default headshapes mesh, and skeleton bone, 2) make custom hairs fitting the CC headmesh and assign skeletal bones for animation, 3) encrypt the file so it works with the game without any conflicts. Making custom would be actually easiest one here. Knowing coding structure as well as exporting and importing mesh to usable files would be hard. But the hardest part would be applying those changes to game without causing any conflicts. I really wish someone can make tools for mesh and textures editing though. That would be just pure awesome.  

[sinosleep]

Something that hasn't been covered here that I've been running into is a little problem I like to call "chimp face" I spent a great deal of time in the CC recreating these proportions 

 

 

which looked great from the front and profile views in the CC only to get thrown into the real game and get hit with a camera angle that swung in from the top and careened downward only to reveal that my character indeed did have a serious case of "chimp face"

 

Instead of being greeted with what I had thought was a pretty good piece of work I was met with this

 

 

I'm talking to a T. From the cheek bones up my character looked fine, but from the cheek bones down it was straight chimp face. Right down to the severe tapering of the face below the cheekbones, along with the roundess and extention of the part of the face above the nose. I've tried messing with the "cheek shape" slider below the cheek bone slider and widening the law line which seems to help some but what I don't understand is how I can't spot it in the CC but it's ridiculous obvious and terrible looking in game. What am I doing wrong?