462 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

How is it incorrect? Everyone we meet is saying Orlais is slipping militarily. The Chevalier Order has been neglected, Tevinter is exerting more influence, some parts of Orlais were restless.

She may have been a patron of the arts, but she hasn't maintained Orlesian supremacy

[Steelcan]

I couldn't care less what the knife ears get up to under Celene or Briala.

[LobselVith8]

Also, the Celene/Briala reconciled ending mentions that elves gain more rights than ever before and Orlais enters a golden age. Funny how Gaspard supporters never mention this.

Is there a video of the Epilogue if Briala and Celene's reconciliation took place? I'm curious how different it compares to Briala ruling Orlais.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Is there a video of the Epilogue if Briala and Celene's reconciliation took place? I'm curious how different it compares to Briala ruling Orlais.

Not yet but in my game, I saw the ending and compared to Briala ruling alone, the differences are that Briala's changes are way more dramatic if she rules alone and the nobility starts opposing her and plotting to overthrow her while if Briala and Celene reconcile, the nobles never complain but elves are given way more rights.

[thesuperdarkone2]

How is it incorrect? Everyone we meet is saying Orlais is slipping militarily. The Chevalier Order has been neglected, Tevinter is exerting more influence, some parts of Orlais were restless.

She may have been a patron of the arts, but she hasn't maintained Orlesian supremacy

You say that like it's a bad thing. Considering we know that Chevaliers have to kill an elf to be inducted and are allowed to rape anyone they want, I'd say they are a-holes. Also, considering that the last time Orlais showed its supremacy by occupying Ferelden had the orlesians do things like rape and kill a woman right in front of her husband and child. If you honestly believe allowing this stuff is good, you need help.

[thesuperdarkone2]

double post

[Barquiel]

Orlais' problems were caused by Celene's predecessor who nearly ruined the country. But it was recovering once she took the throne. Here's the codex entry...

Regardless of how she came to the throne, Celene quickly proved that it was exactly where she belonged. The mad Florian's rule had brought the empire to the brink of collapse. Celene was its savior. Orlais has never been quite so peaceful or prosperous as it is now. The empress highly values education and learning and is an ardent patron of the arts. The aristocracy—in order to impress her—has followed suit, leading to a rebirth of Orlesian culture.

[The Baconer]

How is it incorrect?

 

Well, for one, the same Emperor that successfully occupied Ferelden (for the second time) was the same guy that was in charge when Orlais got its ass beat by Nevarra. Florian's reign (the previous ruler before Celene) was a complete disaster. There's pretty much no basis to state that Celene's Orlais is "undeniably" weaker than its ever been, especially when The Bible states that it is still the most powerful country in Thedas, and was experiencing a cultural renaissance on top of that.

 

Who are the ones who deny this? Crusty old war-vets who get bored whenever they're not dick-flexin', and powdered fops who've spent their whole lives sheltered from the real world.

[Steelcan]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Considering we know that Chevaliers have to kill an elf to be inducted and are allowed to rape anyone they want, I'd say they are a-holes. Also, considering that the last time Orlais showed its supremacy by occupying Ferelden had the orlesians do things like rape and kill a woman right in front of her husband and child. If you honestly believe allowing this stuff is good, you need help.

Someone has to keep Tevinter in check, someone has to lead Thedas when the Qunari come, someone has to keep the Chantry safe.

Your poor attempts at moralising can be dropped, I don't particularly care for arguing which nations and organizations do and don't have blood on their hands, so of you can move past thatitd be nice.

[Steelcan]

Codex entries are written by in universe sources usually and are not infallible. Nor have I denied that Orlais has been doing well culturally and economically.

That Celene has continued the decline of Orlais's military influence. The state of Orlais's neighbors and its own internal divisions speak to this. A military in open revolt, its rivals are traveling openly through it and into other nations

[thesuperdarkone2]

Codex entries are written by in universe sources usually and are not infallible. Nor have I denied that Orlais has been doing well culturally and economically.

That Celene has continued the decline of Orlais's military influence. The state of Orlais's neighbors and its own internal divisions speak to this. A military in open revolt, its rivals are traveling openly through it and into other nations

Considering that the last time Orlais was in conquest mode, it failed and wound up nearly crippling the country doesn't speak well for encouraging more wars.

[The Baconer]

Codex entries are written by in universe sources usually and are not infallible.

 

The source I referenced was not a codex or written in-universe.

 

 

That Celene has continued the decline of Orlais's military influence. The state of Orlais's neighbors [...]

 

Prove it.

 

 

[...]and its own internal divisions speak to this. A military in open revolt[...]

 

Something that speaks more of Orlais' aristocracy than it does of Celene herself, as is clearly demonstrated in TME and every other piece of literature written about Orlais.

[Steelcan]

What more proof do you want? Tevinter magister traveling freely through the country, running operations, the military has lost faith in its leadership, and she hasn't been able to reverse the trend of Orlais's losing lands to rival nations.

So failing to reconquer lands lost, not just Ferelden but lands taken by Nevarra as well, a military that is increasingly losing faith in its leadership, and unable to contain its rivals. Its military power is in firm decline.

[Steelcan]

[quote name="thesuperdarkone2" post="18217983" timestamp="1419833231"]Considering that the last time Orlais was in conquest mode, it failed and wound up nearly crippling the country doesn't speak well for encouraging more wars.[quote] whats your point, beyond more moralizing?

A failed invasion doesn't mean they should put everything on full stop and completely switch over to anew national outlook.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Steelcan's solutions to everything involving war reminds me of this:

 

[The Baconer]

Tevinter magister traveling freely through the country,

 

When does that occur (honest question, no sarcasm)? Do not give me an example that occurs after the Civil War has started.

 

 

the military has lost faith in its leadership,

 

How would there be a Civil War to fight if this were true?

 

 

and she hasn't been able to reverse the trend of Orlais's losing lands to rival nations.

 

So what?

 

Seriously, in what ways does this comprehensively benefit Orlais (assuming said invasions even succeed), other than trying to make a point?

[Steelcan]

When does that occur (honest question, no sarcasm)? Do not give me an example that occurs after the Civil War has started.
 
 

 
How would there be a Civil War to fight if this were true?
 
 

 
So what?
 
Seriously, in what ways does this comprehensively benefit Orlais (assuming said invasions even succeed), other than trying to make a point?

I remember some journal entries and such in the Hissing Wastes and Western Approach that seemed to me to predate the Civil War but I'd need to look closer at the dates

Do I really need to preface with "a majority of the knightly class and rank and file, but not enough to completely strip away those loyal to Celene"? Not everyone prefers Gaspard of course, but he's undeniably more popular with the Chevaliers and army, that doesn't mean they will all follow him.

Why do invasions ever benefit those who win? Resources, markets, labor force, manpower, trade routes, cultural importance, etc...

[Steelcan]

Steelcan's solutions to everything involving war reminds me of this:
 

. You know it is possible to argue without being rude and uncivil

[The Baconer]

Do I really need to preface with "a majority of the knightly class and rank and file, but not enough to completely strip away those loyal to Celene"?

 

Preferably "a majority of the knighthood" and leave it at that, because there's really nothing stating that the majority of the "rank and file" support Gaspard. If DA:I is anything to go buy, it might actually be the opposite.

 

Not to mention, "rank and file" are likely conscripts, meaning most of them might not give a **** either way, as if they even had the right.

[Steelcan]

Cullen implies differently with his dialogue, he says that Gaspard was popular with all the troops, not just the knights

[The Baconer]

Cullen implies differently with his dialogue, he says that Gaspard was popular with all the troops, not just the knights

 

You'd think he wouldn't need to reach out to Fereldan mercs if that were the case.

[Aimi]

Cullen implies differently with his dialogue, he says that Gaspard was popular with all the troops, not just the knights

ugh bioware warfare what is this "rank and file" garbage

[ButterRum]

Ok I saw some argument a couple pages back about Briala and Celene....

Abusive relationship dynamics... Look at it this way.... A boss who gets into a relationship with their secretary would be an HR nightmare and illegal. The secretary, regardless if they love their boss or not, could file a suit with the EEO (equal employment opportunity in the US) and win the case and lots of money. It's unprofessional and illegal for a boss to get into a relationship with a subordinate. The power dynamic is also uneven and creepy because the boss could easily use the relationship against their subordinate. For example, they could threaten to fire their secretary or end the relationship and the job. Plenty of cases like this go on actually.... so I'm just demonstrating why a boss relationship with a subordinate is socially unacceptable.

In Celene and Briala's case, well, it's way worse because Celene is Briala's ELVEN handmaiden. Elves and humans don't have good relationships, and Briala was pretty much forced into the life of a handmaiden because her parents were cornered into it. Regardless of Celene's progressive views of the elves, she abused her power by molding Briala into her tool. They grew up together and don't have much age difference, but Celene's power over Briala was monumental. Briala doesn't have any civil laws protecting her rights. She's an elf, and they get treated like dirt, and even Celene didn't fully see Briala as a person when Briala herself believed she witnessed Celene risking her life for Michel but not for her.

Whether you ship the two or not, there is no denying that the power dynamic is creepy between the two and that Celene was abusing her power over Briala.....and the book made it pretty clear that Celene took Briala for granted at times and that Briala was sick of it.

I thought the two were a very interesting couple and I "ship" them though I recognize that their relationship is very problematic.

--

So I reunited Briala and Celene in the game, but I didn't get the epilogue in which they enter Orlais into a golden age. My epilogue stated their relationship was rocky and that they rely heavily on the Inquisition????

Do I need to make Leliana the Divine so that Celene and Briala enter Orlais into a golden age? I got Cassandra as Divine even though I didn't pick her.

[Sugram84]

what about when he reaches an accord with Ferelden through diplomacy?

first time hearing about this, but he is blood thirsty Tyrant, it was clear from talking to him, sooner or later he has a rebellion on hes hands, a new civil war, that happens when u try to keep ur nation together trough fear, people fearing u, it mite also happen no matter who is on the throne, considering what i have seen so far, neither of them cant handle this with out the alliance with Inquisition, but Briala is Elf & she helped to save Celene, that mite make Orlay people see Elves differently