462 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

As someone who hasn't played this variation but has a vague idea of what happens, I'm conflicted. The relationship isn't healthy at all, for either party. On the other hand, Briala being raised to noble status represents the reform within existing structures I'd prefer for Thedas.

[Lenimph]

It was built on lies and murder. 
 
And I would absolutely describe it as abusive. Not physically abusive, but emotionally abusive. Celene thought that their relationship could continue as normal with Briala locked in a tower as a prisoner for the rest of her life. 
 
Seriously. That relationship is sick and broken.

I wouldn't necessarily call Celene letting her run her personal spy network and sleeping with her every night, all night despite the possible risk on her reputation locking Briala in a tower...

[Former_Fiend]

I wouldn't necessarily call Celene letting her run her personal spy network and sleeping with her every night, all night despite the possible risk on her reputation locking Briala in a tower...

 

After Briala kills that one noble who was abusing elves and Celene goes on the war path to put down the elven rebellion, she has Briala arrested. She intends to have Briala imprisoned - a comfortable prison where she can visit any time she wants, but a prison none the less. She sees nothing wrong with this and is befuddled when Briala objects. 

[Lenimph]

After Briala kills that one noble who was abusing elves and Celene goes on the war path to put down the elven rebellion, she has Briala arrested. She intends to have Briala imprisoned - a comfortable prison where she can visit any time she wants, but a prison none the less. She sees nothing wrong with this and is befuddled when Briala objects.

Uh and her other options were? If she had not put an effort to put down the rebellion then people would assume the accusations of their relationship to be true, Gaspard would have real dirt on Celene and they would both have lost all their power (I doubt the elves would all suddenly want to listen to Celene's little toy). I agree that it seems extreme but I don't really think either one of them was in their proper mindset.

Gaspard was the one who made this complicated in the first place, and I do believe Celene would have handled the Elven rebellion differently if that was the only thing she had to deal with. The mage thing was also an issue...

[Former_Fiend]

Uh and her other options were? If she had not put an effort to put down the rebellion then people would assume the accusations of their relationship to be true, Gaspard would have real dirt on Celene and they would both have lost all their power (I doubt the elves would all suddenly want to listen to Celene's little toy). I agree that it seems extreme but I don't really think either one of them was in their proper mindset.

Gaspard was the one who made this complicated in the first place, and I do believe Celene would have handled the Elven rebellion differently if that was the only thing she had to deal with.

 

Her options were not going on a goddamn war path and killing three thousand people because her rival started a rumor about her. Her options were not murdering a girl's parents and lying to her about it for twenty years while they shared a bed, all for her own ambition. Her options existed, however much she wants to deny it to justify all the horrible things she's done.

[Kulyok]

Hi, sorry to interrupt the discussion, but can anybody please tell me where that blasted locket chamber *is*? I want Briala and Celene together(just, you know, to make Solas happy), but those servant quarters are *huge*, and I don't want to lose my 100 court rating.

[Lenimph]

Hi, sorry to interrupt the discussion, but can anybody please tell me where that blasted locket chamber *is*? I want Briala and Celene together(just, you know, to make Solas happy), but those servant quarters are *huge*, and I don't want to lose my 100 court rating.

It's in one of the rooms nearby where you meet Briala.

[Lenimph]

Her options were not going on a goddamn war path and killing three thousand people because her rival started a rumor about her. Her options were not murdering a girl's parents and lying to her about it for twenty years while they shared a bed, all for her own ambition. Her options existed, however much she wants to deny it to justify all the horrible things she's done.

Yeah ok thanks for not offering actual alternatives

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah ok thanks for not offering actual alternatives

 

Here's an alternative; she shouldn't have tried for the throne to start with. She should have thrown her support behind Gaspard when the emperor died instead of acting on ambition and murdering innocent people so she could play the sympathy card. 

 

Here's another alternative; if, in her ego, she couldn't resist taking the throne for whatever reason, she shouldn't have taken the child of her murder victims as a lover. How she can live with herself while sharing the bed of the same person who's parents she murdered is beyond me. 

 

And if she couldn't help herself with either of those indulgences, then maybe, twenty years down the line when Gaspard started spreading slander about her, she should have responded in kind with a propaganda war of her own instead of committing mass murder.

 

And if killing three thousand elves and announcing to the world "See how much I'm overcompensating to prove Gaspard wrong? I totally DO NOT have elf fevor, I swear!" was the only way to mend her bruised ego at Gaspard out playing her with her own toys(the theater and university), then maybe she should have just let her lover slip away after she killed the noble instead of arresting her to keep in a little cage.

[Steelcan]

Yeah ok thanks for not offering actual alternatives

cutting the rabbit loose is an option, but no she needs her plaything

[PrinceLionheart]

I just got all three to kiss and make up. I didn't read the book so my Inquisitor didn't give a **** about making the two a couple again.

[AtreiyaN7]

I had no idea what happened in the book, not having read it. What I can say is that I found that Celene had kept the locket that Briala had given her. After talking to both of them about their past relationship, it sounded like there was both love and regret still there on both sides. I also got the impression that Celene felt that he had let Briala down, and so when the option came up...I managed to get them back together.

I also thought it would give the Orlesian elves a voice and would foster a better future for them once Briala was elevated to noble status, so I was happy about playing Cupid for a bit. Much like I did when it came to other quests and judgments in the game, I tended to favor giving people a second chance. Maybe it helped that I wasn't prejudiced in favor of either side, but in any case, Celene seemed like the best option to maintain stability.

Oh, and yes, I found that guy handcuffed to a bed in that room, which was failry hilarious even though it was obviously a serious matter (believe I told him to shut up about it and just get out).

EDIT: Ah, after reading that other user's post, I can see why the whole thing might be upsetting, but considering what some of the other people that my Inquisitor gave second chances to had originally done, well, I think Celene is just one more person who made a pretty tragic error in judgment and lived to regret her actions. While you could justifiably harbor resentment over the rebellion, I still think that bringing them together is the one way that leads to a better path to the future for the elves in general - can't imagine that Gaspard by himself was going to push for giving Orlesian elves a voice in government.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one happy to reunite Celene and Briala. It is indeed quite a cool mission. I do love the theme for the mission, one of my favorites of the game.

 

Theres no point in arguing in circles about what kind of relationship Celene and Briala have. I'll just say its quite nice that there are more than one option for a positive outcome. It leaves the question of who the best ruler is as completely subjective rather than what felt more black/white with the Orzammar choice in origins.

[Barquiel]

Her options were not going on a goddamn war path and killing three thousand people because her rival started a rumor about her. Her options were not murdering a girl's parents and lying to her about it for twenty years while they shared a bed, all for her own ambition. Her options existed, however much she wants to deny it to justify all the horrible things she's done.

She killed these people because it was a rebellion. Those elves were in open rebellion and killing humans. Other monarchs would have done exactly the same (see Anora in the DAO epilogue). Or do you think a warmonger like Gaspard (who has much more blood on his hands) would have been more lenient towards them?

[Zered]

Gaspard (who has much more blood on his hands)

 

Eh? Now I know he is a dick as well but when did he have a chance to kill more people then the empress? If anything I'd expect them to have an pretty even score in the killing charts.

[Steelcan]

Eh? Now I know he is a dick as well but when did he have a chance to kill more people then the empress?

he was a general during Orlais's occupation of Ferelden so I guess that might count

[Former_Fiend]

She killed these people because it was a rebellion. Those elves were in open rebellion and killing humans. Other monarchs would have done exactly the same (see Anora in the DAO epilogue). Or do you think a warmonger like Gaspard (who has much more blood on his hands) would have been more lenient towards them?

 

I don't support Gaspard. I may like the man better, personally, but he's still a warmongering *******. 

 

Him being a warmongering ******* doesn't change the fact that Celene is a manipulative murderer who would do anything to maintain her hold on her kingdom. Just because he's a monster doesn't mean she's any less of one. 

[Zered]

Ah true. Still I'd imagine there is no good choice for the ruler of Orlais. I'd never imagine that one day I would appreciate Alistair

[Steelcan]

Make Gaspard emperor

 

do war table mission to make him and Alistair come to an accord

 

profit

[EmperorSahlertz]

Celene successfully ruled Orlais for years while Gaspard will drive them into useless wars. That's reason enough for me to support her.

Sitting on the throne for many years, and being succesful is NOT synonumous. The mere fact that a civil war could start under her rule, without it being a matter of succession, is testament to how entirely inefficient she has been. To the chopping block with her.

[Barquiel]

Eh? Now I know he is a dick as well but when did he have a chance to kill more people then the empress? If anything I'd expect them to have an pretty even score in the killing charts.

Well, he started a civil war in an effort to seize power for himself. I am sure more than 3.000 people died in that war. And Orlais wasn't exactly on the brink of collapse under Celene's rule so that it was necessary to overthrow her.

From the codex: The mad Florian's rule had brought the empire to the brink of collapse. Celene was its savior. Orlais has never been quite so peaceful or prosperous as it is now.

[Yinello]

Dang, I had no idea the 5 halla door had that. I was already confused why I couldn't have more options than have Celene exile Briala. Then again I missed more because the mission made me so anxious because I was sucking in court ettiquette. xD

[ButterRum]

Where in The Masked Empire did Celene say she would lock Briala in a tower?

[WildOrchid]

I got the ending where you force all 3 of them to work together.

 

Wow, how did you manage that? Any tips for my next playthrough?

 

Edit: nvm, saw the post. Thanks for that. I knew we had to do something with the hallas.

[Former_Fiend]

Where in The Masked Empire did Celene say she would lock Briala in a tower?

 

Was her plan in her internal monologue while on her way toward the elf uprising. She and Briala later argue about it while they're in the woods heading towards the dalish. 

 

I am going off memory; it's been months since I've read the book and I don't have a copy any more. But she intended on imprisoning Briala for killing the nobleman(a kill she sanctioned) to appease everyone and show that she wasn't going soft on elves.