173 réponses à ce sujet

[ZoliCs]

What people honestly think does not matter, because that is what they think.

 

The issue stems from taking what you personally think and spinning it into something you "know" to be a truth. That is simply not the case in the end, because what you think is subjective. There is enough burden of proof for either stance, which is the point I am making. 

 

Your point, in which short stories are inferior to long stories, and entire argument you have presented as proof, was invalid from the start because of how you framed it. It is not just a bad argument, it's one that is founded on confirmation bias of what you personally enjoy, and not anyone else. You also didn't really give good examples of long or short games that have good stories.

 

Here is some. Costume Quest, an RPG with a fun little story to it that lasts at most 6 hours. Or how about The Last of Us? I don't like the story in it personally, but people herald it as one of the best ever told, and it can be beaten in less than 20 hours, complete with drop-in villians per section, for example, and a big bad with a hidden agenda of course. Hell if were even going to use that as an example, Origins has the same problem since you don't see the Archdemon until the end, and Loghain until just before the end, outside of a few cut-scenes.

 

Then you go into ad homenins against me because you really do have nothing to say in the end, do you. You presented you're argument, sure, and I reject it as being a flimsy argument because it simply is flimsy, biased, and frankly a waste of my time proving it. 

 

But since you asked nicely...

And now you are just rambling, I just assume you can't counter what I've said.

[ashwind]

If the majority of the players; the average players takes about 50 hours to complete the game, then no, he is not lying. Also maybe that is the average time the play testers of this game completes a play through. 

 

This site http://www.howlongto...ame.php?id=9850shows the average time players take to beat a game. 

 

You know what the devs need? Maybe they need to hire rushers to play test their game before giving numbers. They should add: Our super speedrun play tester completed this game in 5 hours! Beat that and you get an achievement.  

[holdenagincourt]

And if he had said 20 hours the same people who like to play gotcha with BioWare at every turn would say he lied because it actually takes a great deal longer to acquire the necessary power, experience the numerous story-rich companion quests and quasi-main quests (things like keeps and sealing Fade rifts), and level your character to the recommended level for the main quests.

 

Fifty hours is actually a fairly accurate estimate as an answer to the question posed to him, if you conceptualize the question in a certain way.

[Spectre 117]

I'll never understand the trending obession with trying to measure some sort of arbitrary game time.

[o Ventus]

I'll never understand the trending obession with trying to measure some sort of arbitrary game time.

You know, if it doesn't take you a week in real-time to beat the game, the game was terrible in every way and has no redeeming factors.

[Il Divo]

You mean like the length of a series? I would be ******* overjoyed.

 

Until the writers managed to **** it up, at which point you'd probably be pissed regarding how the story went off the rails. 

[Il Divo]

I wish my favorite game would last at least my lifetime. If I was more into movies then hell yeah I'd like my favorite movie to last days, years, decades.

But yeah you are right about most people.

 

I'd like it too, if I thought the creator could sustain the same level of quality and innovation ad infinitum. Unfortunately, the opposite happens too. We often hear someone talk about how terrible the Star Wars prequels are, how Heroes is garbage after Season 1, etc, etc? Hell, it happened to me sitting through Nolan's Interstellar. 

 

In discussing game length, we can't just assume a higher level of quality because the experience continues. That's one thing Vince Gilligan pointed out when discussing why he was ending Breaking Bad, since he didn't want to run the risk of the series being overplayed. 

 

The goal is for the developer to create an experience such that the player feels content upon completion, not too short that they feel cheated, but not long enough that they find themselves checking their watches constantly. 

 

In that sense, enjoyment isn't a mathematical equation. If I enjoy a 5 hour game greatly, it doesn't necessarily follow that I'd enjoy that same experience more if it was extended over 50 hours, as an example. 

[DarkSpiral]

Why should this even matter?  Its highly probably that when laidlaw said "50 hours" he was not taking speedthroughs into account.

 

And I personally don't believe the game can be completed in 15 hours.  Did you spacebar through every dialogue?  Balderdash.

There are always people that love to nitpick, I suppose.

[LinksOcarina]

And now you are just rambling, I just assume you can't counter what I've said.

 

I did, you are just too ignorant to comprehend it.

[Rawgrim]

What people honestly think does not matter, because that is what they think.

 

The issue stems from taking what you personally think and spinning it into something you "know" to be a truth. That is simply not the case in the end, because what you think is subjective. There is enough burden of proof for either stance, which is the point I am making. 

 

Your point, in which short stories are inferior to long stories, and entire argument you have presented as proof, was invalid from the start because of how you framed it. It is not just a bad argument, it's one that is founded on confirmation bias of what you personally enjoy, and not anyone else. You also didn't really give good examples of long or short games that have good stories.

 

Here is some. Costume Quest, an RPG with a fun little story to it that lasts at most 6 hours. Or how about The Last of Us? I don't like the story in it personally, but people herald it as one of the best ever told, and it can be beaten in less than 20 hours, complete with drop-in villians per section, for example, and a big bad with a hidden agenda of course. Hell if were even going to use that as an example, Origins has the same problem since you don't see the Archdemon until the end, and Loghain until just before the end, outside of a few cut-scenes.

 

Then you go into ad homenins against me because you really do have nothing to say in the end, do you. You presented you're argument, sure, and I reject it as being a flimsy argument because it simply is flimsy, biased, and frankly a waste of my time proving it. 

 

But since you asked nicely...

 

What the customers think about a product, and say about it, is rather important.

[Morty Smith]

It´s not always about length, but what you can do with it.

 

Just don´t oversell yourself, it can get pretty embarrassing.

[Rawgrim]

I did, you are just too ignorant to comprehend it.

 

You didn't. And now you have sunk to using personal attacks. Which means you have moved away from the topic, and decided attacking the opposition instead. That means you lost this discussion by a good margin.

[Thumb Fu]

I completed the story after 87 hours, i completely missed 2 of the larger zones and only completed the Hinterlands and the Oasis place (i say completed i did most of the content but have missed some of the mosaic tiles and probably more stuff) So i did the story and the companions/adviser specific quests, but nowhere near all of the side quest content in the game, i dare say it would take another 30 hours or so, probably more to do everything that remains, i am happy with the size of the game and in no way feel i have been lied to.

[AtreiyaN7]

I spent 78 hours on the main quests (I'm getting tired of cutting the six hours I left the game open for war table-related stuff, so let's just count that anyway because I was obsessively checking in) and a whole lot of side quests and whatnot. *shrug*

[Rawgrim]

I can't complete the game. A bug has stopped the story completely. Have to click Skip Conversation, because it freezes. Happens in every second conversation or so now. Wasn't a problem at all before I got Skyhold. So my playthrough will take me a month or more.

[LinksOcarina]

You didn't. And now you have sunk to using personal attacks. Which means you have moved away from the topic, and decided attacking the opposition instead. That means you lost this discussion by a good margin.

 

Oh please, I explained it already twice now. Do I really need to go into this again?

 

The point that was made was invalid from the start because of how it was framed. What is in Inquisition is inconsequential to the point itself. Dragon Age doesn't matter in this case here, because it is a wide-spread point that presumes something to be true of all things. 

 

And I guess I should rephrase the other one you quoted. What someone personally believes doesn't mean a thing to anyone but themselves. What BioWare takes away from this, who knows, but at the same token, it doesn't really matter much anyway because they can do what they wish. It's good that they listen, but even when they do people complain because of that deterministic attitude I have mentioned before. So I don't even know what the point is of listening is anymore. 

 

And yes, I did personally attack, and do kind of regret it, makes me look like a jerk. So sorry about that. Also, sorry to hear about your bug, I ran into a conversation issue as well during the Warden storyline, was able to get through it after a reset or two.

[Nathair Nimheil]

When did this vicious, adversarial view of the people who develop the games we love become "cool"? Lately way too many gamers seem to just constantly seethe with nearly incoherent rage, eagerly inventing targets and manufacturing reasons to explode at them, smacktalking butterflies that happen to drift past the basement window...

Over 100 posts into this thread and I still haven't seen the actual quote from Mike Laidlaw asserting 50 hours, but the rage infected monkeys are in full poo-flinging frenzy about it anyway. Is RAGE the new fun or something?

[Rawgrim]

Oh please, I explained it already twice now. Do I really need to go into this again?

 

The point that was made was invalid from the start because of how it was framed. What is in Inquisition is inconsequential to the point itself. Dragon Age doesn't matter in this case here, because it is a wide-spread point that presumes something to be true of all things. 

 

And I guess I should rephrase the other one you quoted. What someone personally believes doesn't mean a thing to anyone but themselves. What BioWare takes away from this, who knows, but at the same token, it doesn't really matter much anyway.

 

And yes, I did personally attack, and do kind of regret it, makes me look like a jerk. So sorry about that. Also, sorry to hear about your bug, I ran into a conversation issue as well during the Warden storyline, was able to get through it after a reset or two.

 

Restarting can fix the bug? At one point I had to pull out the power-cord, because the skip convo bit stopped working too. And the menu button on the controller didn't respond anymore either. Fun times.

 

The warden storyline is the one I am having the most issues with too. When I meet Stroud and Hawke in the desert. It really kicks in there.

[LinksOcarina]

When did this vicious, adversarial view of the people who develop the games we love become "cool"? Lately way too many gamers seem to just constantly seethe with nearly incoherent rage, eagerly inventing targets and manufacturing reasons to explode at them, smacktalking butterflies that happen to drift past the basement window...

Over 100 posts in to this thread and I still haven't seen the actual quote from Mike Laidlaw asserting 50 hours, but the rage infected monkeys are in full poo-flinging frenzy about it anyway. Is RAGE the new fun or something?

 

Others have already proven that the quote doesn't exist, or was taken out of context. I don't even know why this thread is still open honestly. 

[LinksOcarina]

Restarting can fix the bug? At one point I had to pull out the power-cord, because the skip convo bit stopped working too. And the menu button on the controller didn't respond anymore either. Fun times.

 

The warden storyline is the one I am having the most issues with too. When I meet Stroud and Hawke in the desert. It really kicks in there.

 

Yeah that happened to me, I restarted and it that issue was still present, but I was able to get through. Slow down, the conversation not pushing forward unless I keep hitting skip, etc.

 

I wish it worked for you, that is one they need to address.

[Rawgrim]

Yeah that happened to me, I restarted and it that issue was still present, but I was able to get through. Slow down, the conversation not pushing forward unless I keep hitting skip, etc.

 

I wish it worked for you, that is one they need to address.

 

The problem is that if I skip ahead, I lose track of the story. And this particular quest seems rather important.

 

The same bug shows up in conversations with Dorian, actually. And sometimes it ends with him disapearing after the conversation. I saw Giselle talking to him, and heard him reply, but he just wasn't there anymore.

[LinksOcarina]

The problem is that if I skip ahead, I lose track of the story. And this particular quest seems rather important.

 

The same bug shows up in conversations with Dorian, actually. And sometimes it ends with him disapearing after the conversation. I saw Giselle talking to him, and heard him reply, but he just wasn't there anymore.

 

That didn't happen to me with Dorian, good thing too since I romanced him on my first playthrough, and I skipped but was able to see parts of the story during the scenes that didn't slow down. Interestingly enough I noticed it happened every time Loghain for me, spoke.

[Rawgrim]

That didn't happen to me with Dorian, good thing too since I romanced him on my first playthrough, and I skipped but was able to see parts of the story during the scenes that didn't slow down. Interestingly enough I noticed it happened every time Loghain for me, spoke.

 

The convo issue during the Warden quest seems to be a very common bug, though. And pretty gamebreaking, in its own right. Kind of strange that none of the people who reviewed the game ran into that one. Or mentioned it.

[LinksOcarina]

The convo issue during the Warden quest seems to be a very common bug, though. And pretty gamebreaking, in its own right. Kind of strange that none of the people who reviewed the game ran into that one. Or mentioned it.

 

I bet it stems from customizing Hawke in some way.

[Ryzaki]

I'm not sure why this is some revelation to people.

 

I can beat every BW game within 25 - 30 hours. Always.

 

Those 50+ hour playthroughs of DAO baffle me. That game does not take that long.