150 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Meh, I don't mind the chevaliers. People want to act like the Chevaliers are corrupt and only them, but the fact is this is going to happen in Thedas regardless. or do we truly believe Ferelden didn't have corrupt knights?

 

Because if people do think that, I'll introduce them to Ser Temmerly the Ox.

 

The Chevaliers need reform, no doubt, but the idea behind them merits my support. Plus, they're capable enough I suppose.

Every single one of them has to murder a city elf as part of their initiation, so yes all of them are at the very least murderers. 

 

Yes, because "Blackwall" is a great person to judge what is moral or not. 

 

Not every one of them. Some of the higher-ups use that as a last minute initiation, but it's unofficial.

 

And actually, I'd say Blackwall is a good person to know what's moral and what isn't. He knows what happened wasn't moral. He never once tried to act like it was.

 

What he happens to be is a person who, despite knowing what is moral and what isn't, has a hard time doing anything about it. And so he tries to change.

[Tielis]

I just finished reading TME today.  And yes, I am crushing on Michel, even though I generally don't like the Orlesians.      It's gotta be the elf blood.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Blackwall is horrible judge character guy thinks that grey wardens are knights in shining armor so well...

[Willowhugger]

The Chevaliers remind me of Westeros' knights.

They pledge to serve the innocent and their lords and their families but usually end up serving only one.

[ladyofpayne]

Chevaliers are just like real knights.

[Solbranthius]

I'd love to see more from them in the future. Perhaps in DA4 or DA:I DLC?

 

Gaspard and Michel are pretty interesting characters, it's just a shame that they weren't more prominent in DA:I and you need to read a novel to fully understand them.

[EngineerEd]

Basically my impression of Orlais is that it's a pretty screwed up country in every way. Makes sense that their knights/elite military organization are also screwed up.

 

I only wish we could have seen them in combat, sort of like in DAO where the forces you support in the GW treaties join you in the fight against archdemons (i.e. Werewolves if you slaughter the Dalish, Templars if you purge the Mages, etc.). Cullen talked up a storm about how Gaspard was a great military commander and highly respected by the Chevaliers. I was disappointed to see that it didn't matter who you picked at all for the leader of Orlais except for 3 lines in the epilogue.

 

 

Regardless. They're flawed knights in a flawed country. Bioware certainly doesn't shy away from representing Orlais in a not so bright light, at least compared to how Ferelden was represented in DA:O.

 

I hope DA4 expands on say, a Tevinter-Orlais conflict, and then we can see more of Chevaliers (and more importantly, Orlais) in a different light.

[ladyofpayne]

Petition for Chevalier companion in DA 4

[ladyofpayne]

We supposed to have chevalier specialisation.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't like chevaliers and I've made no bones about that on these forums.

 

Unlike others, my dislike of the chevaliers isn't based on any moral ground. I don't particularly care that each one of them murders an elf as their initiation or that they all have license to rape any commoner they fancy.

 

My problem with them is a meta one.

 

When I first heard about the chevaliers in DAO I invisioned an order that was more form than substance. A group of competent, capable warriors, to be sure, but no where near as good as they claimed to be or thought they were. That they would be a reflection of the empire; an aging institution beginning to buckle under it's own decadence. 

 

Bioware had other ideas - which is absolutely their right, being that it's their story and their property, and all - and had the chevaliers live up to their hype. 

 

From a story telling stand point, I think that's a mistake. 

 

And there's a part of me - a petty part that I'm not particularly proud of - that wants to see the chevaliers crushed under heel and put into what I consider their proper place.

 

I don't claim any moral highground, I don't claim any justification. I don't need any.

[EngineerEd]

We supposed to have chevalier specialisation.

Looks like they renamed the specialization from Chevalier to Champion, probably to put at ease those who are fiercely anti-Orlais (or just anti-Gaspard/Chevalier). However considering how Reavers were portrayed in DA:O and Templars in DA2 I'm not sure it was necessary.

 

It is interesting that the Champion instructor specifically differentiates "Champion" from "Chevalier".

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

Looks like they renamed the specialization from Chevalier to Champion, probably to put at ease those who are fiercely anti-Orlais (or just anti-Gaspard/Chevalier). 

Yes, what was the point of that? Why mad man (by description) reaver is here but not chevalier?

[The Baconer]

When I first heard about the chevaliers in DAO I invisioned an order that was more form than substance. A group of competent, capable warriors, to be sure, but no where near as good as they claimed to be or thought they were. That they would be a reflection of the empire; an aging institution beginning to buckle under it's own decadence. 

 

Bioware had other ideas - which is absolutely their right, being that it's their story and their property, and all - and had the chevaliers live up to their hype. 

 

From a story telling stand point, I think that's a mistake. 

 

And there's a part of me - a petty part that I'm not particularly proud of - that wants to see the chevaliers crushed under heel and put into what I consider their proper place.

 

There's still a good chance of that being true. Michel being a player-character-made-manifest doesn't really speak for the rest of the order.

 

 

Yes, what was the point of that? Why mad man (by description) reaver is here but not chevalier?

 

Because, out of 11 possible character templates, only 2 could feasibly become Chevaliers.

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

There's still a good chance of that being true. Michel being a player-character-made-manifest doesn't really speak for the rest of the order.

Yes, Gaspard and Stroud are Chevaliers too.

[raging_monkey]

Yes, what was the point of that? Why mad man (by description) reaver is here but not chevalier?

cause reavers are cool XD

[EngineerEd]

Yes, what was the point of that? Why mad man (by description) reaver is here but not chevalier?

I honestly have no idea. I was going to say because Chevaliers are part of the plot, i.e. Gaspard de facto represents the Chevaliers, but in DA2 Templar was a specialization as well and well... Templars vs. Mages was kind of important in that game (and this game for that matter...). 

[The Baconer]

Yes, Gaspard and Stroud are Chevaliers too.

 

Right. Capable swordsmen by all means, but Thedas is certainly not lacking capable swordsmen. Now, Michel on the other hand...

 

I mean, even Gaspard, who tries to encapsulate the entire concept of "Chevalier Honor" often falls short.

[Br3admax]

I honestly have no idea. I was going to say because Chevaliers are part of the plot, i.e. Gaspard de facto represents the Chevaliers, but in DA2 Templar was a specialization as well and well... Templars vs. Mages was kind of important in that game (and this game for that matter...). 

Chevaliers = Champion 

 

Is good to be Champion. 

[Former_Fiend]

Right. Capable swordsmen by all means, but Thedas is certainly not lacking capable swordsmen. Now, Michel on the other hand...

 

I mean, even Gaspard, who tries to encapsulate the entire concept of "Chevalier Honor" often falls short.

 

On the other hand, Michel does get his ass handed to him by a pair of red templars.

 

I'll admit, I cracked a smile to see they had his healthbar down to a sliver and he had barely put a dent in them.

[The Baconer]

On the other hand, Michel does get his ass handed to him by a pair of red templars.

 

I'll admit, I cracked a smile to see they had his healthbar down to a sliver and he had barely put a dent in them.

 

Honestly... that could be closer to the truth than we might think (or hope). All the codices seem to imply that Red Templars are absolutely terrifying.

[Former_Fiend]

Honestly... that could be closer to the truth than we might think (or hope). All the codices seem to imply that Red Templars are absolutely terrifying.

 

Yea, I'm not trying to underplay how dangerous red templars are. I'm actually glad that got accurately portrayed instead of them worfing to Michel.

[Br3admax]

Yeah, also at the same time, he fought all the way there alone and goes back to defend Sahrnia with little back up. Maybe he shouldn't have tried to take a keep alone. I believe story wise, there are actually supposed to be pitched battles going on the entire time we're there, though. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

You know, I'm honestly surprised they didn't bring that up in DAI. Or the whole 'get to do whatever they want with peasants' thing.

 

Seems kinda relevant to Orlais. It'd be like going to Tevinter and never including a Magister who uses blood magi or demonology.

Agreed.

 

Stroud, who would be my favorite Chevalier.

 

He's a Grey Warden of course, but in DA:I you can ask him about his pre-Joining backstory. He mentions that he was a Chevalier.

And with that, I now have absolutely no qualms about leaving Stroud in the Fade to be spider food to save Hawke. 

 

Not every one of them. Some of the higher-ups use that as a last minute initiation, but it's unofficial.

 

And actually, I'd say Blackwall is a good person to know what's moral and what isn't. He knows what happened wasn't moral. He never once tried to act like it was.

 

What he happens to be is a person who, despite knowing what is moral and what isn't, has a hard time doing anything about it. And so he tries to change.

Give me solid proof that it is not every one of them. 

 

Just because Rainier knows he did a terrible thing doesn't make him a good person to judge who are honorable and who is not.

[Gaesesagai]

Honor is paramount to a chevalier, to the point that one may defend the life of a hated foe to prevent their dishonorable death. Torture of an opponent, or condoning torture, is also prohibited.

 

 

In Orlais, an informal final test of a Chevalier's training involves roaming the streets, intoxicated, and testing one's blade by killing City elves.

 

 

That's from http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Chevalier .

 

So yeah... not gonna bother reading posts on this topic, and I'll keep my opinion on people who think this is "awesome" to myself. However, in spirit of this thread, here's my suggestion for a possible Chevalier class available in DAI addon or DA4 whatever:

 

Chevalier class with whatever skills. As origin story, you have some dialogue in academy, talk about honor and integrity. The combat part of the origin story takes place at night, in an alienage/slum/thing where city elves live.

You get a score for killing elves as follows:

1. Armed adults = 1 point

2. Unarmed adults = 2 points

3. Armed children = 3 points (4 points if you kill with Execution like in DAO)

4. Unarmed children = 5 points (7 points if you kill with Execution)

You need a total of 50 points to succeed otherwise you get a sudden death type of message, as your Chevalier companions kill you for bringing shame to them by being weak and honorless.

 

I'm sure Chevalier fans will be delighted and supportive 

[The Baconer]

Torture of an opponent, or condoning torture, is also prohibited.

 

Officially, this part doesn't even apply to commoners.