Have we seen any mage get released permenantly who wasn't either a hero or related to a hero? I'm genuinely curious because I can't think of one.
It depends on how you're defining "hero." You can easily argue that Wilhelm was a hero (if the way Matthias and to a lesser extent Loghain describe him is anything to go by), and I think his release was permanent, but he wasn't a PC.
There is something really, very deliberately screwy with the writing in DA games regarding how mages are shown.
You have mages who want to get so badly they’re willing to turn to demons and blood magic. You have mages like Finn and Vivienne who say that, pffft, getting a pass is easy and more mages should just do that instead of going crazy and banging against the walls. You have Templars who tell you the only way out is to jump out the window (and according to them that some mages have tried that), and you have Knight-Commander who says that First Enchanter has the final word.
Those towers remind me of feudal city in Thedas. There are lines between people, slums and nobles of mage tower, Templars acting like a city guard with curfew and a permission to kill if necessary, mages at the bottom of the ladder who will never go out, and mages like Vivienne who know how to play the game and will get what they want. Even locked away connections are everything, unless your Knight-Commander is Meredith.
Mages are far from equal in the tower. If you do not prove your usefulness to the Circle, if you do not know the right people, say the right words in the right ear, or even share someone’s bed if required, you will never go out.
To be honest, I feel like inconsistent writing is quite common in the series in general.
It's either a deliberate way to show different perceptions, or the writers should talk more.
Some mages are allowed to leave when they are trusted and their powers are needed, like for restoration and healing purposes due to the war for example. Mages aren't just free to leave for whatever after their harrowing though, they are still forced to stay in the Circle unless they have good reason not to. Wynne was a senior member and pro-circle, so of course she was trusted to help the warden with the blight. Different Circles may practice different methods, some more strict than others, but if mages were truly completely free after one test of not allowing a demon to posses them I don't think there would be so many mages left in the Circle or rebelling for their freedom.
I agree, it certainly made a lot of people want to make a change..or more like Cory blowing up the conclave helped it along. But this whole thing could have ended so badly for the mages. Seems to me like they were gonna get sold off to real slavery, which I would have found hilarious. Let's see them start a rebellion in Tevinter.
In the absence of Corypheus, probably not. Had the war run its course without him or the Inquisition it most likely would have been a much bloodier affair for Redcliffe and Ferelden in general.
Doubtful, because without Cory, the Tevinter wouldn't have been there to help, and the Seekers would have cracked down.
Without Corypheus the peace talks at the Temple of Andraste wouldn't have been cut short. So maybe the conflict would have ended then and there.
Doubtful, because without Cory, the Tevinter wouldn't have been there to help, and the Seekers would have cracked down.
If you are responding to me, this would depend on whether or not the ruler of Ferelden yields to the Seekers' demands... and that the conclave failed, of course.
The mages would have had to surrender sooner or later, and I doubt Tegan wants to see his arling destroyed anymore than it already is. There's also the issue with Corypheus Envy demon distorting the Lucius. There's a lot of variable. All out destruction may not have been the only outcome, and they might have surrendered.
Mages could leave Circle even in Kirkwall, Orsino says so outright in "Best Served Cold."
Mages could leave Circle even in Kirkwall, Orsino says so outright in "Best Served Cold."
I don't remember this. What exactly does he say?
Though even if it wasn't against the rules in the Kirkwall circle I don't think the knight commander would have made it easy.
Yes since lore is strange like that.
We're ignoring that you can ask Irving about that not three minutes later and he'll tell you he'll discuss it with you later suggesting that yes this is something that's open to discussion and not an automatic no.
The mages would have had to surrender sooner or later, and I doubt Tegan wants to see his arling destroyed anymore than it already is. There's also the issue with Corypheus Envy demon distorting the Lucius. There's a lot of variable. All out destruction may not have been the only outcome, and they might have surrendered.
I don't remember this. What exactly does he say?
Though even if it wasn't against the rules in the Kirkwall circle I don't think the knight commander would have made it easy.
That numerous mages have left the Circle, sometimes for days.
Only mages doing official circle business or high ranking enchanters may leave, even then they might be forced to go with Templar escorts. You can't just go and be like "hey I'm leaving the tower, goodbye".
And certain circles allow family visits and some don't. However in all of them the new born babies are taken away, without an exception.
You absolutely can lulu. The human mage in DA:I says so, Orsini says so, its not a prison
Yes but you will need first enchanter's approval, even Wynne asked for it before leaving. Knight Commander can overrule the first enchanter but that rarely happens.
not every mage can get to leave the circle so easily majority dont get too at all they stay there trap for life.
Why would a mage with no social standing desire to leave the security and comfort of the circles? Why would they leave free food, cloths and protection to face mundanes that fear and hate them with almost no chance to make money beside being a healer (which is rare even among mages) or a criminal?
They are feed, lodged, clothed and protected from people who hate and fear them when in the circles. They even receive an education and if they are competent they even get to find position among nobility. Life in the circles is better than was most peasants have in Thedas (unless you are stuck in the Gallows).
Also, the mortalitasi seems to have no issues raising their none-mage nephews, but they might not even step in a circle. Nevarra is just weird that way.
The majority of Thedas cannot read or write. Every Circle mage can read and write. There's your income right there. They can also make a living doing whatever they read in all those books in those libraries. Failing that they can apprentice themselves to a smith like any other person. Also, no one knows a mage is a mage unless they see him work magic or he tells them. So they can live amongst the populace and face no animosity whatsoever on account of their magical ability.
Also, living under someone's boot, completely at their mercy, no matter how nicely they treat you, just doesn't sit well with some people. Most people actually.
The majority of Thedas cannot read or write. Every Circle mage can read and write. There's your income right there. They can also make a living doing whatever they read in all those books in those libraries. Failing that they can apprentice themselves to a smith like any other person. Also, no one knows a mage is a mage unless they see him work magic or he tells them. So they can live amongst the populace and face no animosity whatsoever on account of their magical ability.
Also, living under someone's boot, completely at their mercy, no matter how nicely they treat you, just doesn't sit well with some people. Most people actually.
Actually, it's only most Fereldans who can't read or write (I can't remember why, but I would guess it's due to being under Orlesian dominance for so long and most of the nation being rural farmland as opposed to urban sprawl). Orlesians are largely wealthy (and thus have access to educations), and Free Marchers all come from independent city-states (so it's impossible to get an idea for them).
Also, living under someone's boot, completely at their mercy, no matter how nicely they treat you, just doesn't sit well with some people. Most people actually.
You are living under the boot of the nation you are living in right now. They may be nice about it, but you try not pay taxes for a few years, and you'll see that heel come crashing down.
Still, isn't not like you can LIVE outside the circle. No matter why or how you left the circle, you must return after your business is done.
You are living under the boot of the nation you are living in right now. They may be nice about it, but you try not pay taxes for a few years, and you'll see that heel come crashing down.
Not the same thing at all and you know it. The current power structure is full of checks and balances and something akin to a "Rite Of Annulment" can't happen legally. There is no group in my country that gets treated anything like how mages are treated. If Fereldan were England or America then what is the Circle equivalent within the nation? There is none.
Taxes have to be paid or the country can't run. My paycheck comes from taxpayer money. I think that the amount of taxes paid and how exactly they are used is far more of an issue than simply paying them itself.
Not the same thing at all and you know it. The current power structure is full of checks and balances and something akin to a "Rite Of Annulment" can't happen legally. There is no group in my country that gets treated anything like how mages are treated. If Fereldan were England or America then what is the Circle equivalent within the nation? There is none.
Taxes have to be paid or the country can't run. My paycheck comes from taxpayer money. I think that the amount of taxes paid and how exactly they are used is far more of an issue than simply paying them itself.
Point is that there are rules and laws to be obeyed EVERYWHERE, and you get punished for not following them. The Circle is an institution where the magically gifted can learn about and control their powers. They represent a very real danger, which cannot be ignored.
The Circles are also full of checks and balances which are supposed to counter any abuse. And they generally also did. Except in the Gallows, where BOTH the mages and Templars were at fault.
It's almost like all the Circles were different and even different Circle mages had different experiences in the same Circle, which is something Vivienne also says.
It's pretty clear the Inquisitor/Trevelyan Human Mage (from playing her) was allowed to see her family and be part of Ostwick society to some degree. Less than if she weren't a Mage, likely, but you have conversation options that reflect it.
We've seen mages (Enchanter or higher - basically those who've passed their Harrowing and never shown any sign of corruption) leave the Circle, with permission from the First Enchanter (which is what Vivienne also says, and Cassandra's dialogue states as well) and Rhys noted they were permitted to go into Val Royeux proper before the whole Kirkwall thing (in Asunder). Clearly, Anders changed things. And, clearly, things in Kirkwall weren't nearly so permissive anyway*, but this fits with what we saw in DA:O anyway. They couldn't just "go wherever they wanted" without permission but they could be and live outside the Circle, and the First Enchanter was the one they needed orders from.
Yes, you can't leave the Circle in Origins immediately, but you just passed your Harrowing, and the First Enchanter has not given you permission. And you're basically nobody.
*The most notable illustration of this is in DA2 if you ask me - there is a Circle mage fleeing the Blight (or something) who tries to go to the Circle for help because she's helping Ferelden street kids. She turns to blood magic and turns abomination (I imagine between the stress of Kirkwall Templars and being a refugee trying to help those kids). But her note basically says she went to the Circle for help willingly, assuming that the Circle would help her, based on her experiences with the Circle elsewhere. Of course Kirkwall just saw a dangerous mage to lock up. But that should not be applied everywhere.
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