Yeah that whole "how dare you!" is really poor form.
I mean I get the whole he's angry at himself thing but us not being able to react to that in a nice Vivienne fashion makes it so much worse. I hate feeling I'm being moralized by some one with no standing to do so.
It does. But when you get to the judgement Blackwall goes "you're a criminal, same as me." Because doing all you can to give a colleague who lied to you a chance to do good is totally the same as killing an innocent woman and four kids for money.
Judgemental judgement Blackwall is partially the reason I figure it's best to leave him in jail to die as he wants. Next go around I may just not recruit him. He's a stain on the inquisition's reputation.
One could argue that a large part of his reaction is due to the fact that he's really upset that he ends up being responsible for the Inquisitor doing something that could be considered criminal (or at least very questionable if you pick the other options) because it's exactly what he was trying to avoid in the first place by leaving. You certainly find out in prison that by leaving in the way that he did, he was trying to make sure that the Inquisitor's and the Inquisition's reputations weren't tainted by association when the truth finally came out. His lashing out during the judgment is a human reaction to the Inquisitor doing something he didn't want her (or him as the case may be) to do as far as I'm concerned. It struck me as being misdirected anger more than anything else, because it was just one more thing that he hates himself for at that point.
Yeah but Blackwall can get on his high horse during judgement afterwards. I prefer Josie's.
I just wish there was a "You are not that significant darling." complete with Vivi smile but nooooooo. I can't be sassy.
Isn't there an option to say something like "people are going to forget about this after we save the world"?
Isn't there an option to say something like "people are going to forget about this after we save the world"?
Maybe? I'm not sure. None of the dialogue choices made much of an impression on me.
Isn't there an option to say something like "people are going to forget about this after we save the world"?
I remember there being an option like that, yes - "the world will forget about this" or something like that as one of the choices (don't know how it turns out since I didn't pick that).
One could argue that a large part of his reaction is due to the fact that he's really upset that he ends up being responsible for the Inquisitor doing something that could criminal (or at least very questionable if you pick the other options) because it's exactly what he was trying to avoid in the first place by leaving. You certainly find out in prison that by leaving in the way that he did, he was trying to make sure that the Inquisitor's and the Inquisition's reputations weren't tainted by association when the truth finally came out. His lashing out during the judgment is a human reaction to the Inquisitor doing something he didn't want her (or him as the case may be) to do as far as I'm concerned. It struck me as being misdirected anger more than anything else, because it was just one more thing that he hates himself for at that point.
I remember there being an option like that, yes - "the world will forget about this" or something like that as one of the choices (don't know how it turns out since I didn't pick that).
There's no "you're not that significant" option because he was significant enough for you to spend actual resources and manpower to get him out, if you so choose. If you feel that he's not significant... just LEAVE him there. He's made his bed and he intends to sleep in it.
Hell, if you feel he's not that significant, don't even go looking for him? But don't be surprised that he's a little angry at you for pulling him out of jail because that's where he wanted to be.
One could argue that a large part of his reaction is due to the fact that he's really upset that he ends up being responsible for the Inquisitor doing something that could criminal (or at least very questionable if you pick the other options) because it's exactly what he was trying to avoid in the first place by leaving.
Of course, which is another one of the reasons why I think the most suitable way to deal with him is to respect Orlesian law and Blackwall's decision to face justice.
I'm running a world power, I don't have time to make a fuss over one man facing what's due him. Especially when that one man's lies can damage what I'm trying to build. So he stays in jail where he feels he should be, justice is served, and I don't have to sit through his self-involved dramatics.
He's angry because he was perfectly fine with staying where he was (as evidenced when you say "my options were limited," he yells back "You could have left me there!"). Getting him out IS an abuse of power. If you really think he's not THAT worth it ... just leave him.
Yeah, that's certainly one of the reasons for his reaction, and people can leave him there to rot in prison until his execution if they want. It just strikes me as being a waste to do that just because someone gets upset over his having a bad moment and lashing out during the judgment. *shrug*
Yeah, that's certainly one of the reasons for his reaction, and people can leave him there to rot in prison until his execution if they want. It just strikes me as being a waste to do that just because someone gets upset over his having a bad moment and lashing out during the judgment. *shrug*
He's not thankful to get out of jail because... well. He WANTED to be there. I don't get the logic of people getting upset at his behavior?
There's no "you're not that significant" option because he was significant enough for you to spend actual resources and manpower to get him out, if you so choose. If you feel that he's not significant... just LEAVE him there. He's made his bed and he intends to sleep in it.
Hell, if you feel he's not that significant, don't even go looking for him? But don't be surprised that he's a little angry at you for pulling him out of jail because that's where he wanted to be.
To be fair, this is a game where a ram named Lord Woolsley merits a search. You don't need to be that significant for the quiz to spend time on you, apparently.
It does. But when you get to the judgement Blackwall goes "you're a criminal, same as me." Because doing all you can to give a colleague who lied to you a chance to do good is totally the same as killing an innocent woman and four kids for money.
Judgemental judgement Blackwall is partially the reason I figure it's best to leave him in jail to die as he wants. Next go around I may just not recruit him. He's a stain on the inquisition's reputation.
Well, he's not wrong 
I understand why people are annoyed by him in that scene, but I'm willing to cut him some slack there, considering his mental state. As mentioned above, he doesn't even want to be released at that point. It's not like he's denying he's own crimes anyway, he's not saying "You're a criminal, but I would never."
If you want to leave him, by all means, no one's stopping you.
"So Blackwall is...."
An incredibly talented warrior who was already well on his way to atoning for the sins of his past by putting his life on the line to help the Inquisition save the world even before those sins were made known.
There's no "you're not that significant" option because he was significant enough for you to spend actual resources and manpower to get him out, if you so choose. If you feel that he's not significant... just LEAVE him there. He's made his bed and he intends to sleep in it.
Hell, if you feel he's not that significant, don't even go looking for him? But don't be surprised that he's a little angry at you for pulling him out of jail because that's where he wanted to be.
Significant enough for people to believe the Inquisition is corrupted no he is not.
And the Inquisitor spends resources on far more wut inducing things. This would not be the first nor the last.
But then his blacked out picture is stuck on my screen. That's annoying. And where am I blaming him for being mad? If he was all "you should've left me there." and that was it I'd be fine with it. It's when the "you're corrupt and everyone knows." garbage starts spewing that I roll my eyes. So yeah I'm gonna dislike that I make no apologies for it and yes I'm going to wish I had a dialogue choice that says as much.
Man I can have a bard's tongue cut out for slandering the Inquisition. You're not even a speck of the questionable crap I can do. (Obviously not you in specific in case it needs to be clarified).
To be fair, this is a game where a ram named Lord Woolsley merits a search. You don't need to be that significant for the quiz to spend time on you, apparently.
I'm still not sure why mage quizzies aren't suspicious of the talking ram that turns into a rage demon when you hit it.
I remember there being an option like that, yes - "the world will forget about this" or something like that as one of the choices (don't know how it turns out since I didn't pick that).
Yeah that's the "once we defeat Corypheus this won't matter" choice but seriously the whole spare one criminal is a big deal is dumb because we already have plenty of criminals in the Inquisition army from the jump. (You can see this clearly with the templar whining if you save them with the whole "there are mages here we know are guilty of heinous crimes!")
He's not thankful to get out of jail because... well. He WANTED to be there. I don't get the logic of people getting upset at his behavior?
It may be the case that some players want/expect him to be grateful and also expect him to immediately throw himself at their feet to express his gratitude after what they've done for him. And then it comes as a complete shock to the system when it turns out that he's actually angry and upset.
I was a bit gobsmacked the first time it happened, but I pretty quickly understood why he reacted like that. It ultimately didn't bother me (certainly not to the point that I'd dump him for it).
I'm still not sure why mage quizzies aren't suspicious of the talking ram that turns into a rage demon when you hit it.
What...wait...Lord Woolsley really turns into a demon?????????????? Uh, seriously? Yes, I hate to sidetrack things here, but I sort of recall accidentally killing him but not seeing him anywhere nearby. Sort of a long story, but I accidentally attacked him and then tried to run away so that everyone else would follow me and stop attacking him. Except I think everyone was still attacking him...all I know is that I later found the quest listed under my completed quests section (with a hilarious note).
And yes, that was incredibly stupid of me. The reason it happened was that this was before I actually paid attention to all the keyboard commands and realized that I could've stopped everyone from attacking with the "L" key...heh. I may have been a bit overeager to get to Redcliffe, etc. *cough*
Yeah, that's certainly one of the reasons for his reaction, and people can leave him there to rot in prison until his execution if they want. It just strikes me as being a waste to do that just because someone gets upset over his having a bad moment and lashing out during the judgment. *shrug*
You're assuming that those who left them there are doing so only because of his temper tantrum. I've written a bit in another thread on why I think the guy is a tool, but I won't get into that here. In real life, a criminal shouldn't be let off the hook because they've got a mean jump shot, a high IQ, or a prominent position.
Having a talented criminal serve their time/punishment isn't a waste - it's justice. The only one who should feel bad about wasted potential is the person who did the crime. Blackwall acknowledges that he threw his career away. He laid waste to his own life. I'm not letting him go to waste by letting him face what he ran from.
Also, I didn't expect him to be happy I got him out of jail. But his mouthiness was annoying. I honestly only got him out because I don't like leaving incomplete quests and assumed I'd have the option of jailing/executing him myself. When I saw that wasn't the case, I reloaded and chose the "leave him" option. You may not get the XP that you get when you judge him, but his quest closes out at least.
What...wait...Lord Woolsley really turns into a demon?????????????? Uh, seriously? Yes, I hate to sidetrack things here, but I sort of recall accidentally killing him but not seeing him anywhere nearby. Sort of a long story, but I accidentally attacked him and then tried to run away so that everyone else would follow me and stop attacking him. Except I think everyone was still attacking him...all I know is that I later found the quest listed under my completed quests section (with a hilarious note).
And yes, that was incredibly stupid of me. The reason it happened was that this was before I actually paid attention to all the keyboard commands and realized that I could've stopped everyone from attacking with the "L" key...heh. I may have been a bit overeager to get to Redcliffe, etc. *cough*
Yep turns into a rage demon. I hit him once and was "wait what?" (then he respawned because I hadn't gotten his quest yet and I guess the game was being nice XD I ended up killing him a few times).
XD as long as you didn't actually get the quest from redcliffe yet he should've respawned. He did in mine.
Also, I didn't expect him to be happy I got him out of jail. But his mouthiness was annoying. I honestly only got him out because I don't like leaving incomplete quests and assumed I'd have the option of jailing/executing him myself. When I saw that wasn't the case, I reloaded and chose the "leave him" option. You may not get the XP that you get when you judge him, but his quest closes out at least.
Same. I was expecting him to be upset because if he didn't want to face justice he wouldn't have gone there in the first place. It's the "everyone will see how you used your influence." that made me all "...are you kidding me?" And what's worse is he whines about that no matter what you pick. I could see him doing that with Leli and Cullen's choices fine. But whining about Josie's option? GTFO.
Poor Woolsley. Leave him be. Better yet, tell him to go home. Jimmy misses him something fierce.
You're assuming that those who left them there are doing so only because of his temper tantrum. I've written a bit in another thread on why I think the guy is a tool, but I won't get into that here. In real life, a criminal shouldn't be let off the hook because they've got a mean jump shot, a high IQ, or a prominent position.
Having a talented criminal serve their time/punishment isn't a waste - it's justice. The only one who should feel bad about wasted potential is the person who did the crime. Blackwall acknowledges that he threw his career away. He laid waste to his own life. I'm not letting him go to waste by letting him face what he ran from.
Also, I didn't expect him to be happy I got him out of jail. But his mouthiness was annoying. I honestly only got him out because I don't like leaving incomplete quests and assumed I'd have the option of jailing/executing him myself. When I saw that wasn't the case, I reloaded and chose the "leave him" option. You may not get the XP that you get when you judge him, but his quest closes out at least.
Well, for you it apparently comes down to justice - at least your version of it. For some people, it really does seem like it's essentially a shallow response of: "Hey, he's not showing appropriate gratitude to me and should hang for that alone." I am not saying that this is the case with everyone, just that I've seen reactions like that before.
At any rate, I pretty firmly believe that someone who can be redeemed and who has shown himself as having taken concrete steps to atone should be given a second chance. Therefore, from my perspective, it is a waste to cast someone aside even if they do rub me the wrong way - I admire Vivienne in some respects, but in others, she can certainly get on your nerves (and God knows, I share some of her traits). I also won't toss her just because of x number of sarcastic comments - heh.
FYI, it's not like I won't execute people myself or hand them off for execution - because I certainly did that with Erimond. The difference between people like Blackwall and people like Erimond is that the latter individual has proven himself to be a complete bastard through and through. He was unrepentant and egotistical - and no matter how many years I might have stuck him in a dank cell, I don't think he ever would have undergone any kind of personal self-reflection resulting in profound change. And although I disliked Erimond, I also wouldn't have judged him for any perceived "tantrums" (if he'd ever had a reaction like that).
but he's a...To be fair, this is a game where a ram named Lord Woolsley merits a search. You don't need to be that significant for the quiz to spend time on you, apparently.
And the Inquisitor spends resources on far more wut inducing things. This would not be the first nor the last.
This Bard is saying mean things about me! Stop her!
What...wait...Lord Woolsley really turns into a demon?????????????? Uh, seriously? Yes, I hate to sidetrack things here, but I sort of recall accidentally killing him but not seeing him anywhere nearby. Sort of a long story, but I accidentally attacked him and then tried to run away so that everyone else would follow me and stop attacking him. Except I think everyone was still attacking him...all I know is that I later found the quest listed under my completed quests section (with a hilarious note).
And yes, that was incredibly stupid of me. The reason it happened was that this was before I actually paid attention to all the keyboard commands and realized that I could've stopped everyone from attacking with the "L" key...heh. I may have been a bit overeager to get to Redcliffe, etc. *cough*
@xety: You may have a point there. Well, at least there aren't demon nugs? Uh-oh...I might be giving them ideas now. <.<
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