352 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Right, sending people to the Grey Wardens is definitely not a punnishement. Must be the reason why they send all the criminals there.

 

So enlighten me then. What good is Blackwall gonna do after you consrcipted him? Are you gonna take him with you everytime on missions?

 

Don't tell me he is gonna do alot of good by beign your benchwarmer.

We've seen more resentment from the various forms of law enforcement about the Wardens recruiting criminals than support of it. They just have no choice but to support it due to the Right of Conscription. In fact, criminals tend to go to the Wardens specifically because they can't be touched by law enforcement once they join. 

 

I use him as a spare tank whenever I go to places where Cassandra wouldn't be enough actually. 

[mordy_was_here]

All of you people saying he's getting away scot-free by atoning have never lived with crippling guilt. 

[Milan92]

We've seen more resentment from the various forms of law enforcement about the Wardens recruiting criminals than support of it. They just have no choice but to support it due to the Right of Conscription. In fact, criminals tend to go to the Wardens specifically because they can't be touched by law enforcement once they join. 

 

I use him as a spare tank whenever I go to places where Cassandra wouldn't be enough actually. 

 

Thats because none of them know the price of becoming a warden.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

@hanako: Honestly, there's absolutely no point in ever really discussing things with you, and frankly, I'm pretty tired of the endless back-and-forth after having been rather studiously polite in the Blackwall thread for approximately forever, but even my patience has its limits. Man, I would really hate to have you be some sort of moral arbiter who judges everyone for their assorted sins. I doubt it'd go well for anyone if that were the case, because even the scales of Anubis are probably less strict than you are when it comes to weighing a man's heart.

If you see no point and are tired in discussing it with me you don't have to discuss it. 

Also, easy on the personal jabs. That goes against the Site Rules. I never personally jabbed at anyone who has a different opinion of a video game character. 

 

You seem to have some sort of deeply pathological hatred for the character, and you clearly can't/don't want to accept that other people have equally valid viewpoints about him, what he did in the past, and who he is in the present - including those people who see that the situation is not that simple. I've said before that I would free him to atone as himself, and you darned well know my extended explanations from the Blackwall thread, but you're reducing it down to something simplistic yet again.

Yeah, I tend to not like people who massacre families for money. Shame on me. 

I never said people had to have the same viewpoints. Feel however you want about the character. Doesn't affect me any. But likewise I'm allowed to feel as I do without being lectured. If I get lectured, I have the right to lecture back. 

 

Rainier is not getting of scot-free either when I free him to atone as himself; he's making up for what he did with everything that he does from that point forward as himself, without hiding behind someone else's identity. He either stands on his own and performs his service for the Inquisition as his own man, or he falls - but since I have every confidence that he's really changed, I expect him to successfully atone over time. As for not throwing him to the Wardens (which I feel is a valid judgment if you choose that route):

 

1) I think it's better for him to be his own man as opposed to using the romanticized Warden hero thing as a crutch (which I have stated before), especially since joining the Wardens really IS a get-out-of-jail free card in the sense that you no longer are held responsible for your past crimes and have your slate wiped completely clean.

2) There's no guarantee that he would survive the Joining - and this certainly played into my decision because of the romance.

He is suffering no punishment. He receives no penalty for the massacre of a family. As for him continuing to make up for what he did, the Inquisitor doesn't have any knowledge of that. So either the player is using meta knowledge or letting their emotions determine the outcome. Nothing wrong with that, but it was stated earlier to not be a good way to judge people. And regardless, the fact he wants to be good now doesn't mean he shouldn't be reprimanded for his slaughter. 

 

 

As for what I did with other people...rather than offing the Mayor of Crestwood, I gave him to the Wardens. And how many people did HE drown? That includes uninfected people who might have been trapped with their loved ones. Rather than killing Mistress Poulin, I ordered her to rebuild the town of Sahrnia. How many deaths was she responsible for when the red templars kept dragging people off? I even allowed Alexius to live and made use of him as a researcher - despite his direct attempt to kill my Inquisitor - because of what Dorian told me about his past. Alexius used to be a good man, and he truly loved his son - but I expect that you would probably just execute him or let him rot in jail or whatever it is that you would do because you don't care one bit about extentuating circumstances like that.

 

I don't care if you want to keep ignoring reality and pushing your viewpoint that everything and every decision in life is somehow simple and easy - go right ahead, but I'm pretty much going to ignore your posts for the most part from now on because it's kind of like trying to talk to a brick wall (pun intended). Congrats, you made the one person in the Blackwall thread who was probably most tolerant of you decide that it's just no longer worth the effort to have a discussion with you about much of anything!

To answer your assumption, like Rainier I conscript Alexius into the Inquisition. Sort of like America did to German scientists with Operation Paperclip.

 

And sorry, but personal insults like you have done, like in this very post, is not being tolerant. 

 

 

All of you people saying he's getting away scot-free by atoning have never lived with crippling guilt. 

Don't make assumptions about people when you have no clue about what they have or have not lived with. 

[SlottsMachine]

Well my first reaction was wouldn't it be funny if everyone just pretended nothing happened after (like a sitcom). Which pretty much was the case regarding the Inquisitor, companions make comments about it though.  

[mordy_was_here]

 

 

Don't make assumptions about people when you have no clue about what they have or have not lived with. 

 

 

 

You know, I was going to let that stand as my only reply to you, because that's my exact response to 99% of what you post all over these boards. But I'll bite.

 

Here, we'll leave them out of it. Let's talk about you, Kallen. You ever lived with crippling guilt? It's that heavy shadow that sits in your chest. The one that makes all the colors go a little dim. Its smell gets into your clothes and hair like cigarette smoke, and every time you smell it all you can see is what you've done, clear as day. It's in every breath you take, making your chest feel tight and your eyes sting.  It turns the best meal you've had into a plate of bitter ashes. It kills every happy thing you have. It is all that you are.

 

There are times when death seems like a mercy, and you wish for it -- but you never follow through, because you feel that you don't deserve that mercy, that end to suffering. So you try to be better. You do better, you are better, but you can't see it. It's never, ever enough. It will never be enough. 

 

I know exactly what it's like to be down in that hole. When I see people ranting about how someone like that -- who is trying their hardest to be better, the only way they know how -- doesn't deserve a second chance, and people like you pushing them right back down into that pit, I get a little pissy. Because I relate to Blackwall, because it's personal to me. I'm not going to apologize for making that assumption, because I'm not sorry.

 

I have no idea if you're this rigid real life, beyond video games -- I don't know you, and I really don't care to. Just keep in mind that every day of a life lived with true guilt is punishment. Now, before I derail the thread any further, I'm going to bow out. Have a lovely discussion.

[Bugsie]

Are you disgusted by me trolling him by exiling him with the wardens? (Seriously you have to admit that's funny as hell).
 
I thought we were friends!
 
_{I am not being serious obv}

Ryz, you be like my favourite Blackwall hater.

I can't troll him like that because I can't get his approval low enough! What a crappy role player I make.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's talk about you, Kallen. You ever lived with crippling guilt?

Yes, I have. 

[Ryzaki]

Ryz, you be like my favourite Blackwall hater.

I can't troll him like that because I can't get his approval low enough! What a crappy role player I make.

 

 

And I did the warden badge conversation a minute ago and I'm half like "I feel bad for you but dude STAPH BEING CHICKEN S*** YOU LIAR!" XD I blame you guys for making me want to hug him and strangle him at the same time.

 

XD nah everyone rps differently. I just get lulz from aggravating all the companions. I wish you could actually annoy Bull but he just doesn't talk

[Bugsie]

That sounds... Like a kink! Trololololol.

Yeah I have terrible time pissing people off, even in an Rp setting - I really have to hate them and even then I struggle. Just not my thing, watching others do it with their PC's on YouTube is as close as I can get most of the time.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Blackwall? Well, upon hearing this reveal.... my current Inquisitor will probably raise an eyebrow and nothing more. Really, Blackwall, why did you keep this from me? There was no need at all. You just better be worth it. ... of course this is my "bad" play through.

[Ryzaki]

That sounds... Like a kink! Trololololol.

Yeah I have terrible time pissing people off, even in an Rp setting - I really have to hate them and even then I struggle. Just not my thing, watching others do it with their PC's on YouTube is as close as I can get most of the time.

 

 

I love making Alistair and Fenris mad. (Plus they get sexy when they're glaring ) Plus renedouche is so my Shepard. Just being that huge grade A jerk everyone's plotting to eventually humiliate is fun.

 

 

Blackwall? Well, upon hearing this reveal.... my current Inquisitor will probably raise an eyebrow and nothing more. Really, Blackwall, why did you keep this from me? There was no need at all. You just better be worth it. ... of course this is my "bad" play through.

 

I wish there was a "It's not your crime that bothers me Blackwall. It's the fact that you lied about it." choice. Because really that's how a lot of my characters feel.

[Bugsie]

I was listening to the scene during judgement where you can break up with him, and if (if) I could roll a romanced PC who breaks with him at that point - what the quizzy says about trust (I love you but .... Trust) fits really well. The only thing that would weaken me though is you can hear Alistair's voice breaking/cracking in response to that. Oh man. Talk about weaken my resolve at that point. Pretty much why I'd rather just not romance him than put myself through that.

[Ryzaki]

I was listening to the scene during judgement where you can break up with him, and if (if) I could roll a romanced PC who breaks with him at that point - what the quizzy says about trust (I love you but .... Trust) fits really well. The only thing that would weaken me though is you can hear Alistair's voice breaking/cracking in response to that. Oh man. Talk about weaken my resolve at that point. Pretty much why I'd rather just not romance him than put myself through that.

 

"I'll always love you but I can never trust you again. I'm sorry."

 

Oh I picked that on my original Blackwall mancer. She sent him to the wardens too

[Bugsie]

It's really well spoken by the VA (it was Sumalee's I haven't heard it on Alix's) but the response, the pause he makes and waiver and it sounds like he's gonna break then holds it and accepts her decision as just. Yeah. Cool stuff.

[Ryzaki]

It's really well spoken by the VA (it was Sumalee's I haven't heard it on Alix's) but the response, the pause he makes and waiver and it sounds like he's gonna break then holds it and accepts her decision as just. Yeah. Cool stuff.

 

Yeah you can see when his poor heart breaks in half.

 

I felt bad.

 

But not bad enough to reload!

[BAC PARTY CITY]

this decision is less about the inquisitor and more about the inquisition and Orlaise.  I'm sure the Inquisitor or at least my Inquisitor could live with whatever happens. He's got bigger things to deal with and has to think about the big picture saving the world. Orlaise politics and all his men.

 

So breaking it down.

 

-Politics and Relationship with Orlaise (in very good standing right now)

-Inquistion troops (how will my soldiers take this, and how will this the cohesion of the organization)

- Image of the Inqusition (not as important of the other two but something that can't be entirely overlooked)

 

 

also feel like people are jumping to conclusions about Blackwall. To me I've got to question everything. He didn't wrong me or the inquisition personally outside of lying which could have been really harmful with the Wardens, but we kind of lucked out.

 

I think the inner circle of the inquisition is strong enough to accept any course of actions, not so sure about the low level foot soldiers. I know I'd be uneasy following someone like that into battle. Blackwalls been great since I've known him but I can't assume anything form before I met him. And the fact that he's kind of a pathological liar makes me slightly uneasy. It's one thing to lie, but dude made me do all the Memories of the Grey Warden quests and was going on about how great the Grey Wardens are and all their virtues and other junk they do. But now I find out he has no clue what he's been talking about. Didn't know diddly squat about the wardens.

 

 

I think Bioware slightly messed up on this. I mean it was a little too out of left field for how much he carried on about the Wardens. They should have dropped at least 1 or 2 subtle hints.

 

Now that I think about it. This is one of those judgements where I feel like it should fall to someone else. Namely Orlaise. I feel like the Inquisition can make a case in Blackwalls defense provide character references etc, but out of all the injured parties the Inquisition is the least harmed. 

[Dean_the_Young]

How on earth is Hanako, one of the most softspoken and polite people on the forum, being treated as the bad guy (gal) here?

 

She's expressing an opinion and a judgement on a character who very clearly wants to be judged. She's expressing a viewpoint that not only is hardly controversial, but that Blackwall would probably agree with. She's not insulting the views of others, even as she refuses to compromise her position (and willing to support it calmly and reasonably). She's even being polite about it, well after the point of vitriol and hostility that I would resort to passive-aggressive snark and mockery.

 

This is just... bizarre. Even I like Hanako. I mean, it's not like she's argued a minority position like my views on Cole's mind violation addiction.

[Ryzaki]

How on earth is Hanako, one of the most softspoken and polite people on the forum, being treated as the bad guy (gal) here?

 

She's expressing an opinion and a judgement on a character who very clearly wants to be judged. She's expressing a viewpoint that not only is hardly controversial, but that Blackwall would probably agree with. She's not insulting the views of others, even as she refuses to compromise her position (and willing to support it calmly and reasonably). She's even being polite about it, well after the point of vitriol and hostility that I would resort to passive-aggressive snark and mockery.

 

This is just... bizarre. Even I like Hanako. I mean, it's not like she's argued a minority position like my views on Cole's mind violation addiction.

 

Do you constantly go into a fan thread to whine about the same tired remarks time and time again? I mean decent discussion is one thing because yay but if you know your position isn't going to change why start an argument in a fan thread about the exact same discussion you had the day before. It's pointless. You've made your mind up about the character. Worse you know you can't stand the guy. Why go into his thread just to repeat it constantly? It's not even like it's an discussion at this point it you're complaining about the same crap you've already complained about for the utmost time. And again complaining is fine, but when a vast majority of your contribution to the thread is the same complaints no one's gonna want you around.

 

You can be as "polite" as you want but constantly derailing conversations is going to get people aggressive and annoyed. Again it's the quantity.

 

This is not a one time thing. Hell I rag on Blackwall too but I don't make a point of doing it like freaking clockwork and crapping up the fan thread with it. (Yes I will ****** once in a while in the thread but It's not common enough for most of the damn thread to start blocking me).

[Xetykins]

Do you constantly go into a fan thread to whine about the same tired remarks time and time again? I mean decent discussion is one thing because yay but if you know your position isn't going to change why start an argument in a fan thread about the exact same discussion you had the day before. It's pointless. You've made your mind up about the character. Worse you know you can't stand the guy. Why go into his thread just to repeat it constantly? It's not even like it's an discussion at this point it you're complaining about the same crap you've already complained about for the utmost time. And again complaining is fine, but when a vast majority of your contribution to the thread is the same complaints no one's gonna want you around.
 
You can be as "polite" as you want but constantly derailing conversations is going to get people aggressive and annoyed. Again it's the quantity.
 
This is not a one time thing. Hell I rag on Blackwall too but I don't make a point of doing it like freaking clockwork and crapping up the fan thread with it. (Yes I will ****** once in a while in the thread but It's not common enough for most of the damn thread to start blocking me).

This +1000 . If i have nothing nice to say about a character, i wont go to his/her fan thread and force my views.

[AtreiyaN7]

How on earth is Hanako, one of the most softspoken and polite people on the forum, being treated as the bad guy (gal) here?

 

She's expressing an opinion and a judgement on a character who very clearly wants to be judged. She's expressing a viewpoint that not only is hardly controversial, but that Blackwall would probably agree with. She's not insulting the views of others, even as she refuses to compromise her position (and willing to support it calmly and reasonably). She's even being polite about it, well after the point of vitriol and hostility that I would resort to passive-aggressive snark and mockery.

 

This is just... bizarre. Even I like Hanako. I mean, it's not like she's argued a minority position like my views on Cole's mind violation addiction.

 

Well, you can pop into the Blackwall thread and try to find all the Hanako-related posts from a hundred-plus pages back - I'm not doing your research for you. Maybe then you'll see why she has managed to drive an awful lot of people in there insane to the point that they have put Hanako on ignore. As one of the few people who was actually on the more tolerant side and tried to be relatively nice the whole entire time, it's saying something that I'm finally annoyed enough to call a person out for what appears to have been, well, passive-aggressive behavior in the thread.

 

The short version is that many people tried to politely put forth our points of view, whereupon Hanako would basically do something like this: "no, you're wrong - it's like this and only this, and I'll keep saying this for the next twenty million pages until it drives you insane, including insisting that the character whom I hate is horrible and irredeemable because - when he was a child - he didn't intervene when a group of other kids tortured a puppy."

 

Oh, and did I mention that Hanako essentially attacked those of us who pointed out that Rainier was a kid at the time (vis-a-vis the puppy story) and may have been afraid/outnumbered/didn't want to tell his dad for some reason? See, what Hanakko did was to imply that we, as a whole, must have endorsed cruelty to animals. You call that respectful? And while we're at it - I understand that Hanako yet again posted something inflammatory in the Blackwall thread earlier today (which since got deleted because whatever it was ticked a lot of people off - me, I didn't see whatever it was, so I'm not sure what it was).

 

Anyway, this is officially over with as far as I'm concerned, and I have nothing more to say about it in here. Frankly, I think that if Hanako or you have a problem with anything, then maybe it's time to take it to PMs instead of dealing with it in this thread. I'm totally cool with ryzaki and other people who don't like Blackwall - as long as they're capable of having an intelligent debate without sounding like a broken record and crying boohoo when called out for, how shall I put this, antagonistic behavior. God knows, I displayed almost superhuman patience after the kind of stuff that Hanako did - but hey, if anyone else would like to accuse us of being okay with cruelty to animals simply for pointing out that you can't expect some kid to necessarily run in and play hero like Hanako did, etc. - feel free. *shrug*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

How on earth is Hanako, one of the most softspoken and polite people on the forum, being treated as the bad guy (gal) here?

 

She's expressing an opinion and a judgement on a character who very clearly wants to be judged. She's expressing a viewpoint that not only is hardly controversial, but that Blackwall would probably agree with. She's not insulting the views of others, even as she refuses to compromise her position (and willing to support it calmly and reasonably). She's even being polite about it, well after the point of vitriol and hostility that I would resort to passive-aggressive snark and mockery.

 

This is just... bizarre. Even I like Hanako. I mean, it's not like she's argued a minority position like my views on Cole's mind violation addiction.

Thank you, Dean. I appreciate this post.

 

Do you constantly go into a fan thread to whine about the same tired remarks time and time again? I mean decent discussion is one thing because yay but if you know your position isn't going to change why start an argument in a fan thread about the exact same discussion you had the day before. It's pointless. You've made your mind up about the character. Worse you know you can't stand the guy. Why go into his thread just to repeat it constantly? It's not even like it's an discussion at this point it you're complaining about the same crap you've already complained about for the utmost time. And again complaining is fine, but when a vast majority of your contribution to the thread is the same complaints no one's gonna want you around.

 

You can be as "polite" as you want but constantly derailing conversations is going to get people aggressive and annoyed. Again it's the quantity.

 

This is not a one time thing. Hell I rag on Blackwall too but I don't make a point of doing it like freaking clockwork and crapping up the fan thread with it. (Yes I will ****** once in a while in the thread but It's not common enough for most of the damn thread to start blocking me).

The title of that thread is: Blackwall Discussion Thread -- The Resolve! [Voiced by Alastair Parker]  . As such, people who do not like the character are allowed to discuss that there. It is not derailing since it is discussing the character. People in there respond to my posts, thus I respond back since it is considered by society to be rude to ignore people who are having a dialogue with you. Also, your statement about that being all I do in that thread is an inaccurate one. I have discussed things other than what you and the others are stating.  

 

 

Well, you can pop into the Blackwall thread and try to find all the Hanako-related posts from a hundred-plus pages back - I'm not doing your research for you. Maybe then you'll see why she has managed to drive an awful lot of people in there insane to the point that they have put Hanako on ignore. As one of the few people who was actually on the more tolerant side and tried to be relatively nice the whole entire time, it's saying something that I'm finally annoyed enough to call a person out for what appears to have been, well, passive-aggressive behavior in the thread.

You have done several personal jabs if not plain insults. That is not being tolerant of someone expressing their opinion on the character's official discussion thread. 

 

The short version is that many people tried to politely put forth our points of view, whereupon Hanako would basically do something like this: "no, you're wrong - it's like this and only this, and I'll keep saying this for the next twenty million pages until it drives you insane, including insisting that the character whom I hate is horrible and irredeemable because - when he was a child - he didn't intervene when a group of other kids tortured a puppy."

I said I disagreed and I think that is wrong. I never stated people were wrong and in fact on several occasions said people can think whatever they want. 

 

Oh, and did I mention that Hanako essentially attacked those of us who pointed out that Rainier was a kid at the time (vis-a-vis the puppy story) and may have been afraid/outnumbered/didn't want to tell his dad for some reason? See, what Hanakko did was to imply that we, as a whole, must have endorsed cruelty to animals. You call that respectful? And while we're at it - I understand that Hanako yet again posted something inflammatory in the Blackwall thread earlier today (which since got deleted because whatever it was ticked a lot of people off - me, I didn't see whatever it was, so I'm not sure what it was).

I never attacked or accused anyone in that thread of endorsing animal cruelty. If it seemed that way, it was not intentional and I apologize. However, if you are being hyperbolic to degrade my posts then I ask you to stay factually accurate rather than doing that like you have done before. 

As for the thing today, I immediately realized I went to far and removed the post within ten minutes of having posted it. 

 

Anyway, this is officially over with as far as I'm concerned, and I have nothing more to say about it in here. Frankly, I think that if Hanako or you have a problem with anything, then maybe it's time to take it to PMs instead of dealing with it in this thread. I'm totally cool with ryzaki and other people who don't like Blackwall - as long as they're capable of having an intelligent debate without sounding like a broken record and crying boohoo when called out for, how shall I put this, antagonistic behavior. God knows, I displayed almost superhuman patience after the kind of stuff that Hanako did - but hey, if anyone else would like to accuse us of being okay with cruelty to animals simply for pointing out that you can't expect some kid to necessarily run in and play hero like Hanako did, etc. - feel free. *shrug*

This thread is about people's opinions and views of Rainier as well as what people did after learning the truth. Sorry, but you have no right to tell people to censor their posts in this thread. The OP doesn't ask solely for people who reacted positively to respond. 

[Ryzaki]

 

The title of that thread is: Blackwall Discussion Thread -- The Resolve! [Voiced by Alastair Parker]  . As such, people who do not like the character are allowed to discuss that there. It is not derailing since it is discussing the character. People in there respond to my posts, thus I respond back since it is considered by society to be rude to ignore people who are having a dialogue with you. Also, your statement about that being all I do in that thread is an inaccurate one. I have discussed things other than what you and the others are stating. 

 

You're allowed to discuss whatever you want. Just don't be surprised when many are hostile towards you for bringing up the same circular debates.

 

Good thing I said vast majority and not everything then eh?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You're allowed to discuss whatever you want. Just don't be surprised when many are hostile towards you for bringing up the same circular debates.

 

Good thing I said vast majority and not everything then eh?

I'm not surprised. I know I hold the minority opinion in that thread.

 

Yes you did. I misread that. That's what I get for getting on in the middle of the night.