249 réponses à ce sujet

[Risien]

I have zero emotion invested into the romances in BioWare games. If you read back, I even said that I typically don't do them because I feel like they're shallow/poorly done. I'd be perfectly fine with zero romance in the game. I'd even be fine with zero "straight male" romance options, specifically, because again: I do not care.

If this unlikely scenario were to happen, however, and BioWare just decided to leave out straight male romances for some reason, what I would care about would be people insulting and making fun of straight males for complaining about it, because it would obviously be considered wrong should the roles be reversed (a woman, homosexual, transgendered person etc. "complaining" about their lack of attention, perceived or otherwise).

I care about this because I'm an egalitarian.

No, I mean you're projecting it onto me.

 

Bioware DIDN'T leave out straight male romances, nor would they.  So that's not a very reasonable hypothesis.  Straight guys get the same number of romances as gay guys and lesbians.  That's why complaining that he didn't get enough attention is getting so much scorn. He literally believes he should get more options than everyone else because he believes he's part of some majority and should be catered to more than anyone else.

 

We don't need that attitude around here.

[Maverick827]

No, I mean you're projecting it onto me.
 
Bioware DIDN'T leave out straight male romances, nor would they.  So that's not a very reasonable hypothesis.  Straight guys get the same number of romances as gay guys and lesbians.  That's why complaining that he didn't get enough attention is getting so much scorn. He literally believes he should get more options than everyone else because he believes he's part of some majority and should be catered to more than anyone else.
 
We don't need that attitude around here.

I associate insults with anger, am I'm certainly not angry, so I don't believe I am projecting anything on to you.

I looked over that person's post again. He does seem to mostly reference the homosexual/transgender content, of which there is either equal (two), or in the case of trans, zero romances.

That said, there are four choices for straight women. I don't feel like straight men, gay men, gay women, or transsexuals would be in the wrong and worthy of insults by saying "I think we should get four as well."

I actually don't think anyone should be insulted even if they said "I think we deserve all the content." I think that hypothetical person should just be ignored.

[Risien]

Since you keep misrepresenting his argument, I'm going to assume you're not interested in honest debate and leave it be.

[SolNebula]

Oh well as straight male gamer will have to wait for the Witcher since it's more friendly to my category. Though next time will pay more attention to these things when purchasing a BW game

[Kappa Neko]

Well, this is Bioware we're talking about. As we all know, they tend to take criticism to heart and go for the extreme opposite in their next game. So the complaints about straight female players getting the short end of the stick in Mass Effect resulted in everyone BUT straight female players being underrepresented

That's Bioware logic. Don't question it.

 

On the upside, I'm sure their next game will have tons of hot babes for straight male players again *g*

 

Can't say though that I'm thrilled about the extra romances for me. The only one I'm interested in is Solas, and he's ugly as hell. The only hot option is Cullen, but he's so boring to me and not my type at all. He comes across as a bad Alistair clone. My daddy issues are not strong enough to go for Blackwall. And the Bull is a big NO WAY.

 

To me Cassandra looks like the best romance in the game right now by far. She's the plot romance, like Alistair. Or Liara in Mass Effect.

So as a straight female player I ironically wish I could romance Cassandra or Dorian with my female elf, LOL. Tough luck...

I like Solas a lot though, so it's okay.

 

I agree that the romances distribution is unfair, but how unhappy one is with that depends on how satisfied they are with what is available to them.

[Abaddon_86]

No, I mean you're projecting it onto me.

 

Bioware DIDN'T leave out straight male romances, nor would they.  So that's not a very reasonable hypothesis.  Straight guys get the same number of romances as gay guys and lesbians. 

 

It's interesting, since you probably have 97% vs. 3%, maybe 95% vs. 5% with a lot of good will. Yet here they treat it like it is 50/50.

And let me tell you, Josephine's romance was horrible.

Cassandra had no appeal (to me) as a character who I wanted to get involved with and also she even looked very... well, not really female. At least Josephine looked at least somewhat like a girl I would go for in real life, but well, look what it got me here.

All in all, this was the most unsatisfying experience of all Bioware games I played so far (started with BG1) in terms of romance and Love interests.

And considering that the overwhelming majority has been marginalized to give every other sexual orientation the same amount of options, I feel like that has something to do with each other. Think "distribution of available ressources".

 

Morrigan & Leliana for instance have just been so much better than Cassandra and Josephine... I mean, what the flipping ****.

[Risien]

It's interesting, since you probably have 97% vs. 3%, maybe 95% vs. 5% with a lot of good will. Yet here they treat it like it is 50/50.

 

Seriously? You Really think 97% of Dragon Age's players are heterosexual guys?

 

 

 

 

And considering that the overwhelming majority has been marginalized to give every other sexual orientation the same amount of options, I feel like that has something to do with each other. Think "distribution of available ressources".

 

Having the same amount of content as almost everyone else is the exact opposite of "marginalized".

[New Kid]

Seriously? You Really think 97% of Dragon Age's players are heterosexual guys?

 

Not just Dragon Age players, 97% of the world are heterosexual guys. You didn't know?

[New Kid]

On topic though, I am happy with the Josephine romance, very happy. It was sweet and romantic, I would take the cute kiss-y scenes over a nip-slip any day.

[Kittn]

All this arguing over who is more entitled to how many romance options, and here I'm just glad they're still giving us these paths to explore for our characters. Of course, I remember when the only interest us straight girls got was from Anomen and his daddy issues and if you were looking for love from the same gender, your options were all of: Nope.

 

Anyway, I've yet to get to the meat and potatoes of any romance in this game as I can't seem to stop exploring stuff long enough to advance the story. I do have Cullen on the hook for my human, but I may not be qualified to judge how satisfactory the romances are, seeing as how I haven't completed one yet.

That said, I can't help but think that judging the fullness of a romance based on whether or not the character puts out really says more about the player's priorities than any lack of  affection on the npc's part. I guess I'll find out just how awful it is not to bear witness to my character sleeping with Solas when I get to my elf playthrough for him. I suspect I won't be all that broken up about it, though. I have a fantastic imagination to fill in any blanks if necessary.

Besides, there hasn't been a romance created to date that has even come close to producing the feels I got from Valen Shadowbreath once upon a time. Dios mio, dat Tiefling. Rawr. And that was well before the introduction of the cutscenes in question, so I just can't agree with the idea that a romance isn't complete if you don't have one.

[Sith Grey Warden]

I suppose that if you count this set of romance options as lacking for straight males, you'd have to say the same for lesbians. They get Josephine and Sera. I'm agnostic, but I'd still take Cassandra over Sera considering Sera's pretty much insane. Granted, I'm saying that without having completed her story arc, but she makes some horrible first, second, and third impressions.

[JCAP]

I suppose that if you count this set of romance options as lacking for straight males, you'd have to say the same for lesbians. They get Josephine and Sera. I'm agnostic, but I'd still take Cassandra over Sera considering Sera's pretty much insane. Granted, I'm saying that without having completed her story arc, but she makes some horrible first, second, and third impressions.

Sera is interesting. Yes, she is crazy, but there are some moments she says the smartest things.

[MasterPrudent]

As a straight male I'm...

 

enjoying the Sera romance and plotting a Blackwell romance for a second playthrough that'll happen somewhere down the line. And in the event that I get around to a third playthrough in, say, 2018 Dorian is totally getting sexed. What I'm trying to say is that in a roleplaying game where you can play characters of (almost) any gender and sexuality your options are hardly limited because you, personally, are straight or male or an atheist or whatever.

 

If you don't think Joesphine is a "complete romance" than I'd suggest that has more to do with you than the content given how many people are squeeing over her plotline. And if that's the case then go and try out one of the other seven(!) romance options.

[Abaddon_86]

Seriously? You Really think 97% of Dragon Age's players are heterosexual guys?

 

 

I was going by real life society numbers and I imagine the numbers won't be THAT different (as in 10% straight male, 90% rest) for Bioware games. I hope you don't feel the need to show me some forum poll (because every gamer comes here, right?) here with maybe 50 participants saying that it is this and that instead while thinking this proves me wrong in the slightest.

[Risien]

I was going by real life society numbers and I imagine the numbers won't be THAT different (as in 10% straight male, 90% rest) for Bioware games. I hope you don't feel the need to show me some forum poll (because every gamer comes here, right?) here with maybe 50 participants saying that it is this and that instead while thinking this proves me wrong in the slightest.

Oh, so basically you forgot women exist.

[Abaddon_86]

I'm pretty sure we were talking about men, but I give you that, you could probably extent those numbers to women as well, although I'll admit that straight women are probably more open towards homosexual relationship for their player characters in video games than straight men.

[Risien]

I'm pretty sure we were talking about men, but I give you that, you could probably extent those numbers to women as well, although I'll admit that straight women are probably more open towards homosexual relationship for their player characters in video games than straight men.

No, we've always been talking about "dragon age players". Nothing about that says men-only.

[Kappa Neko]

As a straight male I'm...

 

enjoying the Sera romance and plotting a Blackwell romance for a second playthrough that'll happen somewhere down the line. And in the event that I get around to a third playthrough in, say, 2018 Dorian is totally getting sexed. What I'm trying to say is that in a roleplaying game where you can play characters of (almost) any gender and sexuality your options are hardly limited because you, personally, are straight or male or an atheist or whatever.

 

If you don't think Joesphine is a "complete romance" than I'd suggest that has more to do with you than the content given how many people are squeeing over her plotline. And if that's the case then go and try out one of the other seven(!) romance options.

I agree. Even though my first impulse is to go with a romance that fits my sexual orientation, I have no problem with switching it up if I like a character enough. In fact, in DA2 I wish I had gone lesbian and picked Merrill instead of Fenris because I ended up being greatly annoyed with his personality and the inability to sooth his disturbing rage. He was an awful fit for my character. Not a great experience when your reaction to a romance is "OMG, what have I done. He's a monster!" ;P

In ME3 I ended up realizing that Liara would have been a much better romance than Kaidan. Even though I LOVED Kaidan so so much in ME1. But his romance was disappointing. They all were compared to Liara. So a few weeks ago I started replaying the trilogy with a femShep who chose Liara all the way. (She makes more sense for female Shep and I do feel more invested when I play my own sex.)

I had a lot of fun with Morrigan's romance. If I have enough time on my hands, I play all romances. They are an important part of getting to know the characters. I haven't fully completed the game until I have seen all the romances.

 

I have to say though that the writing of the romances is often bad. DAO was an exception. I just witnessed my character kiss Solas and I laughed at how terrible the scene was... in Haven, I could flirt with him only very very mildly, and then at Skyhold she's all over him suddenly like a horny teenager. That's terrible writing! Where's the build-up? Ugh.

I really like Solas, but that romance better improve fast...

[Abaddon_86]

No, we've always been talking about "dragon age players". Nothing about that says men-only.

 

Okay, even then you would have to accept that straight male are most likely the overwhelming majority of players.

[Risien]

Okay, even then you would have to accept that straight male are most likely the overwhelming majority of players.

Bioware says you're not. So does PC Gamer.

[MasterPrudent]

Personally I don't feel like demographics should be the driver of what experiences are offered to players, particularly when that point of view is combined with the ridiculous premise that people are only interested in experiences that are identical to their own. I think artistic and social factors are more relevant. (And even if one does focus on demographics it's worth noting that the vast majority of games focus on white, male perspectives.)

 

But here are some actual numbers: http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar

 

The too long; didn't read takeaway is that male and female gamers are at, or rapidly approaching, parity in terms of the systems on which they game, the games they play and the time they spend gaming. If you're looking for data on the sexuality of players than that's not here so happy hunting.

 

PS: Also this thread started out as being about Josephine and her romance and I was trying to redirect it back that way but here I am being a big ol hypocrite.

[JCAP]

Oh, so basically you forgot women exist.

Women? What's that? Some kind of weapon?

[Muspade]

Merril was bisexual and not demi-sexual.

 

Josephine Is as asexual as Merril is demi-sexual.

Yes, Josephine Is a full romance.

[Gwydden]

Personally I don't feel like demographics should be the driver of what experiences are offered to players, particularly when that point of view is combined with the ridiculous premise that people are only interested in experiences that are identical to their own. I think artistic and social factors are more relevant. (And even if one does focus on demographics it's worth noting that the vast majority of games focus on white, male perspectives.)

 

But here are some actual numbers: http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar

 

The too long; didn't read takeaway is that male and female gamers are at, or rapidly approaching, parity in terms of the systems on which they game, the games they play and the time they spend gaming. If you're looking for data on the sexuality of players than that's not here so happy hunting.

 

PS: Also this thread started out as being about Josephine and her romance and I was trying to redirect it back that way but here I am being a big ol hypocrite.

The vast majority of Western games (made in a culture created by white people and that is still predominately white) focus on a white perspective? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. Next up you'll tell me Final Fantasy games are crawling with Asian people!

 

And the other thing? Predominately straight male developers are focusing on a straight male perspective? This absolutely outrageous. Heads will have to roll. I know, I know, the whole "straight male perspective" thingie is exaggerated to comedic extremes, but still, how dare they!

 

On a more serious note, I agree what percentage of the demographic your particular group is on shouldn't determine what you deserve. But how big of an audience your group is will inevitably determine the amount of content that caters to you, since most developers are straight white males (as most people in the West are straight and white, and there's a baffling and unfortunate lack of female developers for some strange reason) and creators of art and media will naturally tend to create content that 1) is financially viable e.g. generates a profit and 2) personally appeals to them.

 

More on topic, I'm not particularly enticed with the options available for straight males in DAI, but that's my entire history with DA. I'm not really a romance fan, but as far as optional content goes I enjoyed (some) of my options better in ME. Not the execution, since I think DA makes a somewhat better job with the dialogues, but the characters themselves.

 

But I am bound to come across a character that appeals more to me in NME or DA4, right? Either way, I think saying Josephine is not a full romance because she doesn't include a sex scene is silly, just as automatically insisting she's asexual because the state of affairs of her private relationships is left ambiguous.

[Maverick827]

What exactly was the issue with companions being "player-sexual," again?

I don't really have an argument for it, I was just wondering what the argument against it is.