122 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

You know what? I submit. It was a stupid idea to bring anything related to sexuality or ethnicity into this, no matter how possibly justified, as there would of course be an immediate (f)lame war erupting.

 

Since this thread is already beyond saving in terms of having a serious discussion, I will simply start a new thread excluding the "bonus" part and hopefully have this thread here locked by a mod.

 

So consequantially, any mod reading this here, PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD.

 

Without jumping on you as a homophobe I think your point here is a bit off.

 

If Dragon Age was completely based on medieval history, I might agree with you how the game is off regarding homosexuality and/or transgender characters. But despite there being numerous hetero characters in DA:O, we're never given any indication to think that homosexuality is reviled/feared across Thedas (from what I remember). This is in contrast to Game of Thrones, as an example, where homosexuality does exist, but is regarded by most as being a crime, outside of cultures such as Dorne. 

 

Without that, I think it's a fallacy to say that Inquisition is wrong for catering to all these different groups. Dragon Age can be a game that resembles medieval history in some respects (swords, armor, etc) and avoid similarities in others (its portrayal of sexuality). 

 

Note: I myself am not an expert on how sexuality was portrayed in Medieval History. I'm assuming it was less than positive for the purposes of this point. If someone has more info on how I might be off, I'd be delighted to hear it. 

[DragonAgeLegend]

Want me to list the characters who aren't openly lgbt?

Well, the other person asked for some examples and I gave them. Go back and have a look. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

c) How come there are blacks in Ferelden and Orlais? I'm really, really sure that there were no blacks in DA:O or DA2. So why are there now?

Because the old engine did a terrible job of displaying non-white skintones.

Really, you lost me when you said the game was too long.

[Abaddon_86]

Because the old engine did a terrible job of displaying non-white skintones.

Really, you lost me when you said the game was too long.

 

There is long and there is long. BG2 was also easily 60 to 100 hours, but never felt "too long" and delivered nothing but quality content all-around.

DA:I delivers 30 to 40 hours of quality content and 30 to 60 hours of an utter waste of time.

If you have too much time at your hand and are not bothered by running around endless hallways or spending 10 to 20 minutes of finding the path across mountains to get that 12th shard to open some door, then that is your problem.

[Big Bad]

Dwarves? No problem.

 

Elves? No problem.

 

Dragons? No problem.

 

Qunari? No problem.

 

People of color? PROBLEM.

 

Homosexual people? BIG PROBLEM.

 

Transgender people? HUGE ****** PROBLEM.

 

Yeah, no wonder no one is taking you seriously, OP. 

This is pretty much all that needs to be said. 

[grifter024]

I find it amusing that the FIRST thing anyone brought up out of his LIST of complaints is the whole "homosexual," Aspect. No one brought up facial animations not being that good, the terrain being questionable at times, or for that matter the RPG element being neutred pretty heavily compared to DA:O. No the first thing anyone brings up is the gay problem.

 

Jeez just let it go already, because it's embarrassing seeing so much crying over something that trivial in a video game when it shouldn't play that big of a part in the first place.

[celestialfury]

My favorite thing about all this ''SJW'' drama is drinking the tears of hypocrites. Women, gay people and ethnic minorities who only ever wanted representation were always dismissed as crazed SJWs/feminazis by the same dudes throwing ten times the hissy fits, not because they don't have anything but because OTHERS do and it offends them because they feel they should get special treatment.They're also usually the ones making this accusation towards others, so it's pretty rich. 

[simpatikool]

I am still in the middle of my playthrough, I Skyhold and all, but I am disappointed by the whole inquisition upgrading thing. Outside of Power and Influence, is there any point? Does anyone come at my forces? Do I need to manage my resources? I would like to feel like I am making hard decisions with my forces.

[Inariele]

 

Note: I myself am not an expert on how sexuality was portrayed in Medieval History. I'm assuming it was less than positive for the purposes of this point. If someone has more info on how I might be off, I'd be delighted to hear it. 

 

actually it existed, especially historical rome and greece.

[Natureguy85]

More morons irrationally crying "racist" and "homophobe" to feel good about themselves. The OP's issue isn't with people of whatever race or sexual orientation being there, it's that they apparently come from nowhere. While I don't recall any characters from Origins with very dark skin, there were several with darker skin that I thought weren't white, so this doesn't really bother me. However, knowing that the nations of Thedas were definitely based on European countries, I also understand why people feel it is strange. I suppose they could have made another region across the sea for darker skinned people to come from.

 

Also, while it makes perfect sense from a "make sure all types of players have options" perspective, it is indeed unrealistic to have equal representations of non-heterosexual people. For example, less than 3% of people in the US are homosexual.

 

My point is that these are issues with world building, story telling, and continuity, not with real life people.

[Il Divo]

 

Also, while it makes perfect sense from a "make sure all types of players have options" perspective, it is indeed unrealistic to have equal representations of non-heterosexual people. For example, less than 3% of people in the US are homosexual.

 

My point is that these are issues with world building, story telling, and continuity, not with real life people.

 

The big problem here being that Thedas is not itself remotely realistic, is not based on the modern U.S., and is not an accurate representation of Medieval Europe.

 

It's a fantasy setting which maintains its own rules. We may as well point to the number of female warriors and scouts and say "well, that's inaccurate because women were not a common presence on the battlefield". 

 

I'm inclined to ignore accusing the OP, but I still find his argument to be very much flawed. 

[Natureguy85]

The big problem here being that Thedas is not itself remotely realistic, is not based on the modern U.S., and is not an accurate representation of Medieval Europe.

 

It's a fantasy setting which maintains its own rules. We may as well point to the number of female warriors and scouts and say "well, that's inaccurate because women were not a common presence on the battlefield". 

 

I'm inclined to ignore accusing the OP, but I still find his argument to be very much flawed. 

 

I agree, but people's reaction is due to not understanding that and nothing more. While you're right about female soldiers, they actually were upfront about that in Origins character creator, where they explained that male and female characters were the same. Establishing those things is key.

[Samahl na Revas]

So a blight happens a lot of people die and it doesn't make sense that those seeking opportunity would ride the wave to that opportunity?  There is nothing to argue against here. My character hurls fire, and can slow down time briefly.

[Abaddon_86]

This must be the only forum on the internet in which the mods don't give a rat's *** about the OP wanting to have his own thread locked, even when they themselves post in said thread. Ah well, what the hell, I guess.

[Abaddon_86]

actually it existed, especially historical rome and greece.

 

Is relevant in how far when talking about the Middle Ages? I'm pretty sure the segmentation of human history into different eras is transnational, especially for the western societies.

[Petedj06]

I always find it funny when people complain about a fictional universe as not being accurate. Gay, black, transgender, lesbian, bi, on and on and on characters exist in the exact amount and location BW wants them to. It's okay if you don't like it, but it's not wrong. BW "can't" be wrong, as they essentially amount to the "creator God" of this world. The universe is exactly what they want it to be, and nothing else. You can like/dislike all you want from there, but it is what it is, and they don't have to explain anything.

[Abaddon_86]

BW "can't" be wrong, as they essentially amount to the "creator God" of this world. The universe is exactly what they want it to be, and nothing else. You can like/dislike all you want from there, but it is what it is, and they don't have to explain anything.

 

Yes, if there are logical errors, plot holes etc., they ARE wrong and their IP is worth crap unless people are too stupid to realize they were wronged.

What i just said is not meant to relate to anything related to LBTG, but as a general statement concerning any good fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting. If it is not believable due to such errors or lack of proper explanation, it's only worth so much as people believe it is okay nonetheless.

[Unreal Warfare]

Well, to be fair, transgendered people would probably be burned as witches or something in the middle ages...

 

I'm honestly trying to figure out how someone becomes transgender in the middle ages.

[Il Divo]

Yes, if there are logical errors, plot holes etc., they ARE wrong and their IP is worth crap unless people are too stupid to realize they were wronged.

What i just said is not meant to relate to anything related to LBTG, but as a general statement concerning any good fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting. If it is not believable due to such errors or lack of proper explanation, it's only worth so much as people believe it is okay nonetheless.

 

Well, again, this goes back to the question of what's your basis for it being wrong? Dragon Age takes some inspiration from Medieval History. It is not itself a Medieval History simulator, as seen by a number of different aspects in game. That Thedas is itself an imaginary universe is pretty much all the justification Bioware needs. 

[Abaddon_86]

I said and meant that I made that point as a general statement to refute the general statement in the quote (above given by the poster above).

It is simply a basic rule that one has to abide when one creates a new fictional setting to write novels in (or have video games, movies in said setting). Has not necessarily anything to do with the more specific questions here.

[Il Divo]

I said and meant that I made that point as a general statement to refute the general statement in the quote by the poster above me.

That is a basic rule when you create a new fictional setting to write novels in (or have video games, movies in said setting). Has not necessarily anything the more specific questions here.

 

Gotcha, seems I'm a bit hasty today. 

[Abaddon_86]

Not a biggie

[Petedj06]

Yes, if there are logical errors, plot holes etc., they ARE wrong and their IP is worth crap unless people are too stupid to realize they were wronged.
What i just said is not meant to relate to anything related to LBTG, but as a general statement concerning any good fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting. If it is not believable due to such errors or lack of proper explanation, it's only worth so much as people believe it is okay nonetheless.

I completely agree that a universe can be rendered useless if mishandled (see Star Wars) but you would still have to accept it in its current state. BW, for better or worse, hold the keys to The reality of dragon age, mass effect, jade empire and so forth. That's why you are free to not like it, but it's not "wrong." Im not trying to point to anyone in particular, everyone is open to to love/hate it as they wish, but at the end of the day, the DA Universe is what BW says it is.

[Abaddon_86]

Maybe we just have a different definition of "wrong".

If it is illogical, it is automatically wrong in my eyes and I essentially lose interest as I know I could have done a better job/they (whoever "they" are in the given case) don't give enough of a crap and thus don't take me seriously as their reader/customer/whatever, thus, my allegiance will have undoubtably have come to an end after passing a certain threshold.

 

All things considered, mostly however due to gameplaying reasons and story development, most certainly not just because of increasing LBGT dedication, blacks or whatever, as some here have basically imputed, I feel it will not take much more for me to eventually part with the DA universe and stick with The Witcher and maybe also the Mass Effect series in regard to my digital RPG/fantasy/Sci-Fi pleasures. I also still hold Obsidian and Bethesda in high regard. We'll see, I guess.