122 réponses à ce sujet

[Ekliane]

I'm honestly trying to figure out how someone becomes transgender in the middle ages.

Is it genuine or pure troll ?

 

 

More morons irrationally crying "racist" and "homophobe" to feel good about themselves. The OP's issue isn't with people of whatever race or sexual orientation being there, it's that they apparently come from nowhere.

 

The way he said it, tho... That was completely hurtful and backslash was guaranteed. I don't say it was deserved, and I myself feel the tone of my answer was meaner than I intended. But don't go against a particular bubble of people and expect bliss. That some people feel DA universe needs to justify black people in its game say something entirely else to me. It's Inquisition, not a demographic course.

 

 

I find it amusing that the FIRST thing anyone brought up out of his LIST of complaints is the whole "homosexual," Aspect. No one brought up facial animations not being that good, the terrain being questionable at times, or for that matter the RPG element being neutred pretty heavily compared to DA:O. No the first thing anyone brings up is the gay problem.

 

Jeez just let it go already, because it's embarrassing seeing so much crying over something that trivial in a video game when it shouldn't play that big of a part in the first place.

 

Because to me OP's list of complains was fair up until he started talking about all that stuff. It's like what he kept saying ; what the point of talking about good things ? Although I say it gives you hinsight at the bigger picture, and make Bioware Staff feel less shitty, but well...

Maybe games are not important to you or me, but they can be for others ; as a mean of escaping, of feeling good about you, etc... Representation is important. Now, If you don't need it, It's OK. but don't despise people because they put importance in something you don't.

 

 

OP, you completely had the right to point out things that didn't make sense to you ; but the way you phrased things irked me to no end and seemed to imply LGBT and people of color shouldn't be in the game, that's all. I see so many posts whining about getting hit on by Anders, Dorian, bullshit about non "traditional" character that are just veiling pure intolerance that sometimes I answer a particular topic, in that case, it was yours.

 

Also, I just don't get why people pit Witcher against DA (not directed at you OP, I just briefly saw your last answer and thought about that). Their only common ground is the general fantasy background ; they chose to focus on complete different stuff, and I'm able to enjoy both immensely. It's just not the same mojo.

 

Finally, don't push for a lock-down ! Some answers are rough, but the general topic can be interesting. Stay true to what you said, or admit you're wrong. But if you feel that you're right, why would you erase your opinion ?

[Jazzpha]

I don't care about race or sexual orientation or gender orientation-- what I care about are well-written characters. If a character exists solely to be a token representation of one of their personality (I.e "the gay guy, the lesbian woman, the transman/woman") then I have a problem. Not because of what they represent, but because you're making a person into a thin archetype.

If a poorly-written character happens to be a racial or sexual minority, they can still be criticized for being poorly-written or overly-archetypical. It's when they start to get criticized because of explicitly *what* they are that I arch my eyebrows.

TL;DR a minority character in a game like this isn't inherently bad. Pandering with token representation for the sake of lip-service inclusivity is irritating, though. Give us multifaceted characters if you're going to write them. You know, like normal people are.

Krem, as an example, seems to work well from what I've seen. A member of a minority, but not solely defined by that characteristic.

[RVallant]

Well he did just write post titled things I didn't like and then went on about the amount of darker skinned/ homosexual people in the game. I mean where did you expect this thread to go after that. 

 

Context; Things he didn't like about the game =/= real life views. And he's not the only person with that view.

 

I don't care about race or sexual orientation or gender orientation-- what I care about are well-written characters. If a character exists solely to be a token representation of one of their personality (I.e "the gay guy, the lesbian woman, the transman/woman") then I have a problem. Not because of what they represent, but because you're making a person into a thin archetype.

If a poorly-written character happens to be a racial or sexual minority, they can still be criticized for being poorly-written or overly-archetypical. It's when they start to get criticized because of explicitly *what* they are that I arch my eyebrows.

TL;DR a minority character in a game like this isn't inherently bad. Pandering with token representation for the sake of lip-service inclusivity is irritating, though. Give us multifaceted characters if you're going to write them. You know, like normal people are.

Krem, as an example, seems to work well from what I've seen. A member of a minority, but not solely defined by that characteristic.

 

Agreed, I also thought Krem was nicely written. I already posted on a different topic that homosexuality was quite commonplace historically, throughout the world, during the 'medieval' times and even long before then. It's only been in recent modern times that it's been persecuted and even then has been fallling back to the norm since the 1970's - in the UK at least, most of these problems stem over in Eastern Europe and Africa for whatever reason.

[Abaddon_86]

It's like what he kept saying ; what the point of talking about good things ? Although I say it gives you hinsight at the bigger picture, and make Bioware Staff feel less shitty, but well...

 

 

That part, I'm not even sure the staff reads even 10% of what is posted here (insanely fast-paced forum), let alone actual developers, writers, project managers, whatever. Even if, I already showed my appreciation by paying for the game. And right from the start, I actually said I was okay with the overall-package and found it to be enjoyable. But as a customer, and someone who has invested quite a bit of time in the franchise in terms of playing-time, I feel I should rather be pointing out what still offers (a lot of) room for improvement for future patches, DLCs, Expansions, next installment, whatever (bringing up anything related to race or sexuality as part of that was obviously not one of my brightest ideas, but during playing a lot simply felt like "omg,omg,omg, we HAVE to be as politicially correct as possible, whether it makes sense or not or whether it contradicts previous installments"; but at that time I had no knowledge of the Gaider interview on the matter tbh).

Also, it's not my job to make anybody at Bioware happy. This is essentially a business relationship.

 

As for the rest of your posting, mostly fair points, again, and no straw men this time. Kudos.

 

btw, I found Krem to be one of the more interesting non-companion NPCs in the game. And then they revealed him to be transsexual. Just because. No real reason from the character's angle or rather it didn't add any real layer to his story or development. Could have been any other guy really. That's why I immediately felt it was part of that blatantly obvious political correctness we-at-Bioware-acknowledge-everyone agenda. And that is why I laughed at the screen. I most certaintly didn't laugh at the guy because he was transsexual, if anyone understood it as that. It was just at the fact that Bioware was trying so hard to do right by literally everyone (instead of focusing on important aspects of gameplay for instance...)

[Ekliane]

It was more about people being rude 99% of the time, whining and personally attacking BioWare staff than not criticizing fairly. I'm all for critics, I just don't see a lot of good ones out here. And I do think some of the devs read us in a masoshist move of hoping for meaningful stuff. I also know that 10 people hating on your work can impact you more than 1 guy liking it. Given the average content of posts on the forum, that's nasty.

 

Business relationship, yes. But internet gives it a much closer vibe ; you may be angry, and may have complains, it doesn't mean you should be a total ****** about it.

 

I like Krem de la crème ! I don't really care what hangs between his legs. If BIoware want to please trans people instead of twelve year old kids pinning for boobs and sexy garments, that's something I can be OK with. Maybe you can raise, if not awareness, questions about this particular topic. Maybe they fail to do it right, I don't know, but that they just try is refreshing.

That it is "just" part of the character is, in my opinion, actually good ; it gives another angle than, say, Dorian, who is heavily marked by his homosexuality story-wise. Krem simply is ; I don't think it should always be meaningful. He's a discreet NPC hanging around doing its job who happens not to have the genitals he wishes. You can ask questions about his sexuality/gender or not, the choice is yours.

 

It could be any other guy IRL.

 

(Now I'm not completely candid and I realise Bioware is likely courting LGBT gamers ; I just strongly believe it's more of an stance than a mean to make money. It's well know, after all, than gamer communities is mostly composed of straight white males )

 

To prove I'm not stalking your every post for the sake of disagreeing with you, I'm on the same page in term of gameplay. The tactical console hurts me, the IA behavior could gain to be as extensively customizable as DAO was, and I'm sick of orders not being followed. PC version can be a pain.

[FaWa]

I don't care about race or sexual orientation or gender orientation-- what I care about are well-written characters. If a character exists solely to be a token representation of one of their personality (I.e "the gay guy, the lesbian woman, the transman/woman") then I have a problem. Not because of what they represent, but because you're making a person into a thin archetype.

If a poorly-written character happens to be a racial or sexual minority, they can still be criticized for being poorly-written or overly-archetypical. It's when they start to get criticized because of explicitly *what* they are that I arch my eyebrows.

TL;DR a minority character in a game like this isn't inherently bad. Pandering with token representation for the sake of lip-service inclusivity is irritating, though. Give us multifaceted characters if you're going to write them. You know, like normal people are.

Krem, as an example, seems to work well from what I've seen. A member of a minority, but not solely defined by that characteristic.

I disagree with the idea that any of the gay characters in DAI are tokens. Steve Cortez fits what you're saying way more than Dorian/Sera/Kremm

[StrangeStrategy]

I'm hoping you're a troll. I mean, its fine you disagree but you really lost all credibility with the "bonus" section.

Glad you weren't pleased with some stuff, you really don't deserve it. I mean... These aren't the middle ages... This is the Dragon Age, in a fictional world. Duuurrrrrrr...

Seriously, re-read what you wrote when you started this thread, and ask yourself "Do I sound like an insensitive, over-entitled dick?" and then change.

[Degs29]

7)

Depiction of romance... Bioware, how old do you think we are? 10? 12? DA:O was MUCH better in that regard. Compared to the Witcher series, romance and sexuality are an outright bad joke in DA:I.

The climax of my romance is a kiss in front of a fireplace? For real?

 

Ha.  To be fair, half of Bioware's audience thinks it would be more mature to take it further and be realistic, while the other half thinks sexuality/nudity on that scale is gratuitous and unnecessary in a game.  Bioware is damned either way.

 

I haven't finished the game yet.  I don't agree with all of your list, but some for sure.  While I think Bioware does better than most open world games, any move towards Ubisoft's level of collectibles is too much!  More content in a Bioware game needs to mean more meaningful content.  Otherwise, they lose their brand.  I think the world was a little too big and too diluted.  Not by a large margin, but I wish they had reined it in a little. 

 

That said, I'm enjoying this game immensely.  I'm just worried that with the sheer size of the content I might lose interest before reaching the climax. 

[RenAdaar]

Context; Things he didn't like about the game =/= real life views. And he's not the only person with that view.

Where did I say it was his real life view and claim that he is the only person that has it? . I'm just pointing out that if you are going to write a post complaining about the number of minorities in a game it will not end well. (especially on the internet)

[Ryzaki]

...

 

There have been darker people in EVERY DA game.

 

In DAO there was Duncan, Isabela, Ser Bryant the awesome in lothering.

 

In DA2 there was Alain, potentially the PC and his/her family, Isabela again.

 

In DAI there's Barras the awesome, potentially the PC, the lovely Vivienne. 

 

I don't see the issue.

[prosthetic soul]

The transgender character was so shoehorned in though.  Krem was literally nothing more than SJW The Character.  The way it was revealed that she was transgender made no sense and came completely out of left field that I can't help but come to the conclusion that BioWare specifically put that character in there just to make a political statement. 

 

Their intentions in making that scene were so transparent I don't know how else to put it.

[Father_Jerusalem]

More morons irrationally crying "racist" and "homophobe" to feel good about themselves. The OP's issue isn't with people of whatever race or sexual orientation being there, it's that they apparently come from nowhere. While I don't recall any characters from Origins with very dark skin, there were several with darker skin that I thought weren't white, so this doesn't really bother me. However, knowing that the nations of Thedas were definitely based on European countries, I also understand why people feel it is strange. I suppose they could have made another region across the sea for darker skinned people to come from.

 

Also, while it makes perfect sense from a "make sure all types of players have options" perspective, it is indeed unrealistic to have equal representations of non-heterosexual people. For example, less than 3% of people in the US are homosexual.

 

My point is that these are issues with world building, story telling, and continuity, not with real life people.

 

Protip: Dragons aren't ****** realistic either.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The transgender character was so shoehorned in though.  Krem was literally nothing more than SJW The Character.  The way it was revealed that she was transgender made no sense and came completely out of left field that I can't help but come to the conclusion that BioWare specifically put that character in there just to make a political statement. 

 

Their intentions in making that scene were so transparent I don't know how else to put it.

 

He.

 

And god help BioWare for wanting gamers to experience some inclusivity for once in their lives.

[Who Knows]

This is one of the worst threads I've seen here.

[B_Cudi]

lol@ complaining about the number of hetero options when it hasn't changed at all since over the course of DA history
lol@ stereotypical coming out arc, sorry you can't handle reality
lol@ thinking trans people existing in fantasy is unrealistic.
lol@ thinking we should keep black people out of fantasy because they weren't there before... All change is bad!
lol@ how upset you are over non straight white people existing
lol@ all of the above breaking immersion? Are you brain dead?

This sums up my reaction to this post than I can put into words.

With that being said: OP, you're a ****** idiot

[10K]

I hope the next game they just strip romances out all together. This ranting about not enough romances for x sexuality is really dumb. It's a game, and the romances aren't the main focus. BW please no more romances!!

[Abaddon_86]

Oh, the stupid sort of trolls came back to take over this thread again. Look at what you trolls wrote, and then guys (?) like Ekliane. You tell me, I'm a self-entitled ******? Laughable. With a few exceptions, it is fairly evident that you didn't even bother to completely read what I wrote in the original posting let alone as a whole in this thread.

Your insults mean nothing to me.

[N7 Spectre525]

So a fantasy game that has dwarves ,elves, dragons and 7ft people with devil horns that you can make blue,green,pink,or purple are ok.....but Black people take you out of the game? What a ****** joke.

[Abaddon_86]

Won't bother to comment properly has you didn't bother enough to read properly.

[frankf43]

 

 

The climax of my romance is a kiss in front of a fireplace? For real?

 

OP obviously havent met The Iron Bull     

 

He obviously romanced Jossie. Her romance does not go past a kiss on the sofa. 

[Ekliane]

Look at what you trolls wrote, and then guys (?) like Ekliane. 

 

 

Woman, I don't think it matters as a whole, but it can give you a hint at why I disagree so strongly to some of the points I answered. 

[Natureguy85]

 

I disagree with the idea that any of the gay characters in DAI are tokens. Steve Cortez fits what you're saying way more than Dorian/Sera/Kremm

 

I thought it was Traynor far more than Cortez. It was the constant sexual undertones of her conversations with/about EDI that made it seem that way for me.

[Natureguy85]

Protip: Dragons aren't ****** realistic either.

 

Correct, but people are going to be more willing to accept the truly fantastic than alterations to human behavior and character. The question that gets raised is "why are humans in this universe so different from real people?"

Personally, it's not a big shift to me because you run into quite a few homosexual or bisexual characters even in Origins, including two squadmates. Consistency has always been what I want.

 

This is why the skin color issue stands out; there were not people with particularly dark skin in Origins, so people notice the apparent shift in the setting and the lack of explanation. If I may exaggerate for the purpose of making a point, what if in the next DA game, Dwarves could be mages but there was no explanation offered for how this was possible? I've heard the explanation that the issue was due to the engine being unable to render darker skin and the current engine can do so. This makes sense technically, but it does seem strange in-universe. All they would have to do actually is have characters mention massive immigration into Thedas from elsewhere in the world and problem solved.