I've lost several matches where a full team of players were offed by 4-5 archers standing behind some bushes or smth. They can just all aggro on 1 person and pretty much kill everyone, on perilous few shots required only to brake the wall of shields and guard 
But TBH, no, I don't think those need to get nerfed.
It's the whole point, those are the "squishest" enemies and without that, perilous mode would be a real joke. Than again, good luck with playing it without a keeper 
There's really no agro unless you have a lego on the team, which is not terribly common--and even if there is one they are generally not concerned with trying to hold agro in my experience.
I don't think you know about me as a player, so your personal attack innuendo is unnecessary. If you feel Katari's have no valid concerns for the durability of their class then say so and move along.
That's why you use CC and stay next to the barrier capable guys in the beginning to get some blue goodies.
Considering I regularly play a reaver - and that does damage to itself as a bonus - and I rarely go down while being far from a great player I do question your skill or rather approach. There's cover - use it. There's CC - spec into it. The whole point of this game is that enemies hit like a ton of bricks so you avoid that. You would only have a point if it would be impossible to avoid getting hit. It is not.
Archers should target 2handers and dagger rogues less or do a bit less damage to them. Well armored and ranged defense passive shield chars are very good vs archers so don't need anything there. Archers should remain a major threat to mages and archers so that there is more reason to play other classes. Right now funneling enemies for ranged aoe control, dps, and barriering is king, while melee is pretty marginalized or involve high risk and more effort than just laying down huge aoes and letting mobs walk into their doom.
Melee deal higher dps and in return they can't protect themselves as much as ranged characters.
Where's the problem with that? So no, don't change it. Those who are protected (legos, templars) don't deal as much damage as dps characters - ranged or melee. Those that can protect themselves a bit (with barriers) deal a bit more damage but take higher risks. Those that rely on aggro management and CC but can't mitigate actual damage deal the highest dps. Why isn't this a good thing?
Golyscsapagy, there is just so much wrong with everything you wrote. Forget all that and understand that necro, elementalist, and arcane are the highest dps classes in the game. Necro, keeper, and arcane are the most survivable, and elementalist is also quite survivable with his ability to spam barriers and death siphon. Reaver can have burst dps that is higher for single or closely clustered targets, but they are significantly riskier and mess up the effectiveness of aoe funneling unless they stay back in which case their dps wont matter because a few walking bomb explosions or spirit blade swipes and the enemies are already dead. In comparison, a mark of death archer could do similar dps with significantly less risk and effort without harming other teammates dps, and i believe higher continuous dps against a single target.
If you bring up self healing, yeah well necro and elementalist both can heal for insane amounts as well, and once you play enough you will have a staff upgraded with heal on kill cotton and have a unique and or rare heal on kill ring. Mages and archers right now are the most powerful classes.
Not really. First single target dps matters a lot - the only thing that is actually somewhat hard to kill are bosses. From all those you mentioned the only thing that's actually able to kill large group of mobs quickly is AW. Necro and Ele both are plagued by either small AoE effect, lots of TTK (like WB) or prohibitive CD (60s). I saw really good necros/elementalists, and they can keep up with a properly played reaver maybe, but they both fall off in case of single target damage. Take into consideration how you play a whole battle not just the killing itself - necros and eles rely on corner pulling to herd enemies together or they have to kill enemies one by one - and they are terrible at that.
What do you think deals omfg damage in case of an ele for example? Unless I'm playing it totally wrong you'll barely break 2k with immolation - and you have to herd enemies together for that. Fire trap? 3s arm time. Meteor? 60s CD. FW? meh, lol, that's CC not damage. How do you kill group after group with zero downtime between them?
That's why you use CC and stay next to the barrier capable guys in the beginning to get some blue goodies.
Considering I regularly play a reaver - and that does damage to itself as a bonus - and I rarely go down while being far from a great player I do question your skill or rather approach. There's cover - use it. There's CC - spec into it. The whole point of this game is that enemies hit like a ton of bricks so you avoid that. You would only have a point if it would be impossible to avoid getting hit. It is not.
what if you don't have barrier and cc? having played reaver on a regular basic i can still die to archers and other ranged.
due the fact that it isn't solo play another player can aggro other enemies, which means you can't use cover from all the enemies. some maps the archers start off in different areas and not bunched up for aoe, which a reaver is good at.
consider the fact that armor is a flat damage reduction then armor is horriable. flat armor reduction is horriable in most mmo too. without a difference like percentage armor, armor does very little. the 10 points of armor reduction between a tank and caster doesn't seem reasonable. armor only seems to play a roll for low level enemies.
what if you don't have barrier and cc? having played reaver on a regular basic i can still die to archers and other ranged.
due the fact that it isn't solo play another player can aggro other enemies, which means you can't use cover from all the enemies. some maps the archers start off in different areas and not bunched up for aoe, which a reaver is good at.
consider the fact that armor is a flat damage reduction then armor is horriable. flat armor reduction is horriable in most mmo too. without a difference like percentage armor, armor does very little. the 10 points of armor reduction between a tank and caster doesn't seem reasonable. armor only seems to play a roll for low level enemies.
How can you not have CC? I'm serious, which character is that?
I'm not telling that you never die - people (you and me included) will make mistakes, you will miscalculate your hp, the damage the enemy deals, someone will pull another blob on you - it happens. Still regularly you won't die if you dump aggro on people that can handle it or use CC. AI is really rudimentary in this game and absolutely predictable. Play for it.
I wholeheartedly agree on your points in armor. Armor is laughable and pretty bad - the only class that can use it is legos - because they have 3x20% and 200% buff on it. Still even on perilous that's nearly not enough considering the last buff is on a lengthy CD. And I don't think the game was designed with armor in mind - it works great on routine but after that mitigation (barriers, blocking), LoS breaking (hard or soft like stealth) and escapes take over. This is a heavy skill element though, can be learned and I think that's a good thing.
Not really. First single target dps matters a lot - the only thing that is actually somewhat hard to kill are bosses.
Properly specced archers can do about the same DPS as a reaver, if not more dps due to not needing to run away from bosses anywhere near as much or waiting for rampage to be available again.
From all those you mentioned the only thing that's actually able to kill large group of mobs quickly is AW. Necro and Ele both are plagued by either small AoE effect, lots of TTK (like WB) or prohibitive CD (60s).
Necro, AW, and elementalist can wipe out entire groups much faster and safer than a reaver can. It doesn't take much to rotate firestorm such that you can cast it almost whenever you have mana. There are so many cooldown reduction abilities for most mages and elementalist has t he best ones.
I saw really good necros/elementalists, and they can keep up with a properly played reaver maybe, but they both fall off in case of single target damage.
Again, archers>reavers.
Take into consideration how you play a whole battle not just the killing itself - necros and eles rely on corner pulling to herd enemies together or they have to kill enemies one by one - and they are terrible at that.
Necros and eles rely on nothing, they are click four buttons and win, much more effortlessly and lower risk than reaver.
What do you think deals omfg damage in case of an ele for example? Unless I'm playing it totally wrong you'll barely break 2k with immolation - and you have to herd enemies together for that. Fire trap? 3s arm time. Meteor? 60s CD. FW? meh, lol, that's CC not damage. How do you kill group after group with zero downtime between them?
You are playing it totally wrong, and you have much of the game mechanics in this game totally wrong. Elementalist can spam the living crap out of abilities because he has so many cooldown reduction and mana gain passives. There's really no more point for me to argue, have fun being so confused about the game.
I got 'Firestorm' on my Elementalist just for for pesky archers.
^ THIS. If I see more than 3 archers, that's the only cue I need to unless the apocalypse that is Fire Storm. It may not kill them all, but it keeps them on the ground so they can be mopped up quite nicely.
*snip*
All your arguments are 'you are wrong because you are wrong and ele/necro deals more damage - because you are wrong'.
Wakey-wakey they don't deal more damage simply because their weapon damage is quarter of the reaver and during a casting animation a reaver attacks 3 times.
Put a video up please on you clearing insanely fast with any of those classes. Not one blob - a level. I wonder how you will be able to 'use all those CD reduction abilities' (which is two btw, one tied to attacking with your 70 damage staff for 0,5s, lol).
Again, not AW - I agree he is the best level clearer (bad at single target damage though). But sorry, no matter how fast you recycle your abilities - those will only do 400-500 damage while a reaver hits for 3-4 times as much - and you are not able to reliably hit 3-4 enemies every time due to the lack of instant herding abilities (doing it all the while in a way that's impossible to the reaver).
What ability enables archers hitting for 1,5k each hit AoE? Again, quit saying that I'm wrong, give me skill breakdown. Archers will have good burst but if the enemy has more than 15k hp they will fall back in dps.
Put a video up please on you clearing insanely fast with any of those classes. Not one blob - a level. I wonder how you will be able to 'use all those CD reduction abilities' (which is two btw, one tied to attacking with your 70 damage staff for 0,5s, lol).
Winter Stillness, Gathering Storm, and Flashpoint. You don't know what you are talking about. You are just spewing lies that are going to mislead people on this forum. There's no point for me to argue or prove anything to you.
I usually just teleport to where they are and just wreck them up. I don't see them as a problem, and I'm no good by any mean. I have more trouble with Terror.
Yeah archer damages makes absolutely no sense considering that we have no healing. And even then, it would still be too high.
Winter Stillness, Gathering Storm, and Flashpoint. You don't know what you are talking about. You are just spewing lies that are going to mislead people on this forum. There's no point for me to argue or prove anything to you.
I'm the one lying? Every fact I mentioned can be easily doublechecked.
Flashpoint can trigger once every 10 seconds.
Winter Stillness needs 3s to trigger and it actually doesn't give any CD reduction.
Gathering Strom needs staff attacks. If you have a great staff you might even deal 150 dps with it. Which obviously means that your over time damage falls off - same as your clear time.
All the while a reaver laughs at you cranking out 1,5k dragon rages. Sorry, there's simply no skill at the elementalist's disposal to make up for that in terms of dps. No matter how hard you try to obfocusate and make it appear that you know either classes - numbers don't lie. And the numbers disprove you. Reavers deal far better damage while elementalists can deal less damage albeit do it a bit more safe. It's a good design decision.
It really is brutal when you're a mage and don't realize the arrows are coming. By that time you are already dead.
lol, I am always like THUNK.................THUNK....oi, what is it?.......THUNK......there is frickin archer? THUNK...where is he? where is he....THUNK...bleeding out
It really is brutal when you're a mage and don't realize the arrows are coming. By that time you are already dead.
Yeah, I am playing the so called "op" necromancer, and on max difficulty (or even threatening) I often get sniped from crazy lenghts with insta-kill. Either 2 shots hit me instantly from behind some bushes, stair barriers that look block-y, etc.
I actually have upgraded armor, but they still take over half of my hp per shot.
Half bad when I can see them.
As a Keeper I don't really care, as a templar I am actually happy to generate some guard from the shield block. And when the block is broken, passives nulify most dmg. Although a shot to the back of the head ends badly
Yeah archer damages makes absolutely no sense considering that we have no healing. And even then, it would still be too high.
Actually from a 'real world' ancient battlefield point of view it makes perfect sense. Archers have always been seen as the biggest threat by the field commanders (yes, the archers are more threatening than the charging chaveliers). I am glad Bioware at least got this bit right.
I wouldn't mind them being powerful if they weren't bugged. A good few times now I've been hit by a single arrow and taken any where between 1 and 5 instances of damage all in one go, often leading to instant down. That is quite obviously a bug. Not to mention if it's even remotely laggy, which is 9/10 times in DAMP, arrows don't even need to hit you to wreck you.
*Steps to the side, sees arrow wizz past me*
*Half my health disappears...*
Also, that forward step 180 almost instant shot they do? Yeah, that is OP. Average of 80 - 100% of my HP usually. No time to dodge or step it, no time to kill them before it happens, just eat it.
Archer mooks need nerfs. I've gotten killed because of stray archer damage far too often. High archer damage in a game with no actual healing is neither fun nor fair.
Actuallly from a 'real world' ancient battlefield point of view it makes perfect sense. Archers have always been seen as the biggest threat by the field commander (yes the archers are more threatening than the charging chaveliers). I am glad Bioware at least got this bit right.
I think in a world where people were summoning firestorms and massive Pride demons, creating nigh impenetrable magical shields around themselves, that archers wouldn't really be a problem.
Plus, the degree to which archers were the most threatening thing depended on the defensive technology and tactics being employed. For instance late Italian armor was extremely good at protecting against arrows. This gave the British a huge pause in their war against France as the British were extremely reliant on the much easier to equip and deploy longdownman.
But you also have to look at this in context. In a video game, the player wants to come out on top, they don't want to just be a pawn standing in line waiting to charge against the opposing army and then get shot down two seconds into the battle.
how exactly do the shield buffs stack???
the shield itself says 30% front defense
turn the blade says damage resistance +20% in front
turn the bolt says +50% damage resistance from the front
does this mean that all ranged attacks from the front are reduced to 1?
basically do turn the blade and bolt both effect range, and if so how do they stack? multiplicatively? additively?
Also, that forward step 180 almost instant shot they do? Yeah, that is OP. Average of 80 - 100% of my HP usually. No time to dodge or step it, no time to kill them before it happens, just eat it.
They obviously learnt that from the hipfiring nemesis of ME3MP. Infuriating to chase down an archer who has 5 HP left and just as you close in, bam, you´re dead.
Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if my post seems ranty and angry. I had a terrible day yesterday (Snow and slush, holes in my shoes, needing to go out to do the same thing multiple times because other people screwed up, etc) and my desire to play the game to unwind and kill things was completely slaughtered by the community of pugs I was running into.
If my post causes offense, I do apologize, but I still stand by everything I say about the game and "Just use logic." The only issue is my wording is no doubt coming across as a little annoyed, and that's why this disclaimer is here.
This thread is chock full of what we on the ME3 boards call "L2P" problems. While it may be true that SOME pugs will charge ahead and aggro everything like braindead ****heads just to wreck your run, getting -everything- in an area on you at once is almost always a death sentance anyways. As such, these idiots are not justification for complaining about archers, as they apply to everything. "Oh man, we have 2 pride demons, 4 despair demons, 3 Fear demons, 2 rage demons, etc, on us at once!?" Yeah. I freaking went there. Because that's the kind of stupidity these players cause. But they're thankfully a minority.
- You can usually see the enemy group before engaging it, and from my experience, most players pause for a few seconds before engaging to at least give the heavy ranged hitter time to land that powerful first blow. You can spot and single out the archers to make things safer for your ranged/ support units. Archers die very quickly compared to melee units which love to block everything, so if a group DOES have 1 melee attacker and 6 archers, that just means that group will die all the faster.
- Templars and Legionaires basically negate archers. Yet 90% of my parties see people trying to run stupid combos like 3 reavers, or 2 Assassins and a Hunter, or other 3/1/0 combos that can't even get all the treasure. Hey, maybe if the one thing messing you up has a brutally effective counter, someone should try using it instead of all playing the same damn thing!? LOGIC. USE IT. Seriously, I don't understand people AT ALL with their infuriating insistence of not even getting all the treasure rooms, even before you get into the role you're ignoring! "Bioware screwed up by FORCING this on us!" Are you freaking kidding me!? Grow up! That's like playing a Final Fantasy game without potions or healing and complaining Square was trying to force healers on you. That's like mplaying any MMO with just DPS and healers with no tanks, and trying to complain they were trying to force tanks on you! That's like playing a team-based First Person shooter as your only team member and refusing to use guns, only melee, and complaining that they were forcing guns and teammates on you. It's the epitome of doing it wrong. What the hell kind of person even thinks like this!? Apparently A LOT OF PEOPLE I'VE ENCOUNTERED IN GAME (and a few on the forums!)
- Stealth is also a thing. If you happen to have an Assassin or Alchemist (you might not, if your rogues are archers,) you can charge in first, while stealthed, and kill some archers before they even know what's what. Again, archers never block, and are relatively fragile. A fun lesson to learn for all those "LOLOLOLOL 3 WARRIORS AND 1 MAGE" parties that refuse to bring a single freaking rogue because they're too selfish to think about the party, just what they happen to want to play.
- Walls are a thing. You can take "soft cover" to block hostile projectiles. I've actually solo'd an Arcane Horror as a level 1 hunter this way, when my party refused to come help me because pugs are idiots. Poke my head out, shoot twice, duck behind the wall again, repeat. Point being, you can actually lure an archer into melee range by standing behind something it can't shoot through! Why does no one do this? If archers are giving you a hard time, use the terrain! LOGIC!
Instead of all being braindead "lol just go for max damage" characters, why not actually -TRY- playing parties with utility and synergy? One tank, one person on barriers, and 2 attackers (2 rogues, or 1 rogue and one mage, or an archer and a reaver, etc) are by far the smoothest runs I've played. You know, the standard fantasy RPG party! The kind of game THIS is! Shock and awe! Hell, I admit, I suck at tanking, but games where I tank go far, far smoother than games we don't have one at all. Why? Because we have someone who can keep the heat off the attackers, so they can attack freely without needing to watch their health or fall back!
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