516 réponses à ce sujet

[Auztin]

It is a shame there are only 8 ability slots. It lacks the diversity we had in previous games. It also annoys me how we can't switch abilities/items mid-combat, which is the most annoying thing ever if you're a mage and you meet enemies that are resistant to a certain element. Why can't my mages just strap three staffs to their back in case? Or my Warrior can strap a staff to their backs and carry it for the mages, idc, just give me the ability to change them in combat!

I guess this is a sad trend the game has followed, of basically scrapping tactics (why give us a tactical camera but barely any proper tactics?) and limiting our ability choices.

3 staves? You know that would make the game easy & not tactical at all.That is the equivalent of using a universal staves that damages all types.That is as tactical as Call of Duty MP.I think taking out switch weapons in mid combat was good call.

[Iakus]

Umm, Pillars of Eternity has multiple weapon slots so characters can swap them out on the fly, and it's way more tactical than DAI...

[Auztin]

Umm, Pillars of Eternity has multiple weapon slots so characters can swap them out on the fly, and it's way more tactical than DAI...

I see nothing tactical about it.That would be like giving everyone 3 primary weapons in a tactical shooter.That is not tactical at all when you practically switch weapons for any situation that pops without working with what you got.To me, that is an easy button.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Umm, Pillars of Eternity has multiple weapon slots so characters can swap them out on the fly, and it's way more tactical than DAI...

 

Hell, DAO lets us have two weapon slots.

[In Exile]

Umm, Pillars of Eternity has multiple weapon slots so characters can swap them out on the fly, and it's way more tactical than DAI...

 

In theory that works because there are strong resistances to certain damage types, but in practice it doesn't amount to very much since the difficulty doesn't really flow from damage types as much as different types of resistances, and even then moreso the issue is the volume of enemies that get thrown at you e.g. on hard. 

 

That said you're right in principle, and part of the reason why POE is a more tactical (as well as more strategic) is that you have a great deal more options to juggle in combat, each of which is actually valuable.

 

In fact I'd say the greatest feature of POE is not in the volume of abilities but rather in the fact that those abilities don't suck. There are classes that are weak and abilities that are OP by comparison, but I can't say that (unlike mages in DA:O) there is just such a narrow range of abilities you should cast that for all practical reasons an 8 ability limit would be good enough. 

[Rawgrim]

Or more specifically whether someone RPs a character who is purposely bad at combat.

 

Or that is very good at one type of fighting, and limited in other areas. Or that focuses on one spell school. Having a weakness or two doesn't equal complete suck.

[Hexoduen]

So it would be even better if we only had one power and one button?

This.

 

Apparently the people disliking options come from a place where you only play the game the optimal way. There is no diversity, there is only maxing out stats, choosing the best weapon and the best spells. Anything else goes out the window    It's kinda like Diablo 3 where Jay Wilson argued players don't need attribute allocation since they choose the best build anyways, right? Wrong.

 

While I might play 1 character the 'optimal way', I still prefer more options, for the sake of replay value with a new character, and especially for the sake of roleplay value

[AlanC9]

I guess I just don't find bad options to be interesting. Why would you use anything in late ME1 but Colossus armor and Spectre weapons?

[Rawgrim]

This.

 

Apparently the people disliking options come from a place where you only play the game the optimal way. There is no diversity, there is only maxing out stats, choosing the best weapon and the best spells. Anything else goes out the window    It's kinda like Diablo 3 where Jay Wilson argued players don't need attribute allocation since they choose the best build anyways, right? Wrong.

 

While I might play 1 character the 'optimal way', I still prefer more options, for the sake of replay value with a new character, and especially for the sake of roleplay value

 

I am quite sure that if Bioware gives us just 1 attack button and one ability for the next game, and calls it tactical, the same people praising the 8 ability limitation, will defend that too. "You need to know WHEN to press the button! Its tactical!"

[AlanC9]

Is anyone really praising the 8-slot limitation? I've seen plenty of not being bothered by it, not very much preferring of it.

 

I'm in the indifferent camp myself. I can conceive of systems where a limit would generate interesting tactical challenges -- Deus Ex's strict inventory limit kind of did this, actually. But I don't think DAI gets there.

[Iakus]

I guess I just don't find bad options to be interesting. Why would you use anything in late ME1 but Colossus armor and Spectre weapons?

Because Colossus armor was ugly?  Because some people might prefer Predator armor for superior shields?  Or Onyx or Gladiator armors look better and you're a skilled enough player to not feel required to wear Rainbow Pimp Gear?

[Hexoduen]

I guess I just don't find bad options to be interesting. Why would you use anything in late ME1 but Colossus armor and Spectre weapons?

 

"I never use my Focus abilities. For sure I'd have an easier time in some fights if used, but the way I roleplay my character there's no such thing for her ". Roleplay, and personal preference.

[o Ventus]

"I never use my Focus abilities. For sure I'd have an easier time in some fights if used, but the way I roleplay my character there's no such thing for her ". Roleplay, and personal preference.

What could possibly stand to be gained by not using Focus abilities due to role-playing? What in god's name character are you RP'ing that has an issue with the focus abilities (especially considering that they're just extra combat maneuvers and nothing more)?

[In Exile]

Or that is very good at one type of fighting, and limited in other areas. Or that focuses on one spell school. Having a weakness or two doesn't equal complete suck.

No, but the rules of combat are an abstraction. I think one has to be careful with how they construct their mental fantasy in that regard.

All that I meant to say was that it's still an RP decision to say that ones PC is aimed at being good at combat and then power gaming a build.

[coldflame]

I am quite sure that if Bioware gives us just 1 attack button and one ability for the next game, and calls it tactical, the same people praising the 8 ability limitation, will defend that too. "You need to know WHEN to press the button! Its tactical!"

 

...not just the stupid UI design, those fanboys and fangirls will defend every s****y decision made by bioware. If bioware offered them a piece of rock they would probably praise it as the gaming revolution of the decade.

[Dahae]

3 staves? You know that would make the game easy & not tactical at all.That is the equivalent of using a universal staves that damages all types.That is as tactical as Call of Duty MP.I think taking out switch weapons in mid combat was good call.

 

But in DA:O you could swap weapons mid combat and DA:O was way more difficult than DA:I, so I don't think this is true. 

[Auztin]

But in DA:O you could swap weapons mid combat and DA:O was way more difficult than DA:I, so I don't think this is true.

I found DA:O pretty easy.I played without pausing on top of that with just a few potions & 1 healer that I rarely used as a SnS.Fights were just longer & tedious. Combat in DA:O was weaker version of an MMO.Just because you found DA:O harder does not mean weapon switch is all of sudden tactical.DA:O was an ARPG with tactical elements(AI tactics/TacCam).So is it tactical to have a stave, daggers,& shield all at once to the point you have everything set up so you can solo anything.That is like being a TANK/DPS/HEALER in 1.That is an easy button.

[CenturyCrow]

I am quite sure that if Bioware gives us just 1 attack button and one ability for the next game, and calls it tactical, the same people praising the 8 ability limitation, will defend that too. "You need to know WHEN to press the button! Its tactical!"

Yes

 

One Button to rule them all, 

One Button mash to find them,

One Button to MP them all 

and the RNG to grind them

In the Land of EA where the good old game companies die.

 

(with apologies to JRR)

[Rawgrim]

No, but the rules of combat are an abstraction. I think one has to be careful with how they construct their mental fantasy in that regard.

All that I meant to say was that it's still an RP decision to say that ones PC is aimed at being good at combat and then power gaming a build.

 

Power gaming or builds aren't really required at all in this game, though. People have beaten the game on nightmare simply by casting barrier and button mashing. You can find youtube vids of that stuff. The simplification in this game has managed to reduce tactics and the level up abilites to cosmetic chocies. I'd say that is one fantastic feat, really.

 

I dunno about you, but I am not fond of combat in rpgs that simply requires me to cast 1 spell and then just roll my face all over the controller to win.

[In Exile]

Power gaming or builds aren't really required at all in this game, though. People have beaten the game on nightmare simply by casting barrier and button mashing. You can find youtube vids of that stuff. The simplification in this game has managed to reduce tactics and the level up abilites to cosmetic chocies. I'd say that is one fantastic feat, really.

 

I dunno about you, but I am not fond of combat in rpgs that simply requires me to cast 1 spell and then just roll my face all over the controller to win.

 

I find that all RPG combat basically boils down to casting about 4-8 spells and facerolling combat. BG was much the same way, and so was BG2. POE isn't very far removed from that either. 

 

In DA:O, for example, level-up abilities were really just troll roulette between the almost comically OP abilities and the comparatively garbage ones. Once you understood the game the only limit on your power was an active desire to gimp yourself, with actual "tactics" become entirely superfluous. 

 

It's not that I think DA:I is particularly good at this as much as I think RPGs in general are bad at it. POE is probably one of the best systems out there in terms of a multitude of actually powerful spells and even that game reduces to a few OP abilities on a rinse-lather-repeat scale on anything but the troll-worthy Path of the Dammed, which turns more into RNG trolling until the mid-to-late game. 

 

I'm not saying power-gaming is required. I'm just saying power-gaming isn't necessarily opposed to RP, depending on what you are RPing. 

[Auztin]

Power gaming or builds aren't really required at all in this game, though. People have beaten the game on nightmare simply by casting barrier and button mashing. You can find youtube vids of that stuff. The simplification in this game has managed to reduce tactics and the level up abilites to cosmetic chocies. I'd say that is one fantastic feat, really.

I dunno about you, but I am not fond of combat in rpgs that simply requires me to cast 1 spell and then just roll my face all over the controller to win.

Just like to add to In Exile's comment on YouTube you can find DA:O night mare videos just using a few abilities. Hell you can find videos 1 hitting bosses in MMOs.

[Rawgrim]

I find that all RPG combat basically boils down to casting about 4-8 spells and facerolling combat. BG was much the same way, and so was BG2. POE isn't very far removed from that either. 

 

In DA:O, for example, level-up abilities were really just troll roulette between the almost comically OP abilities and the comparatively garbage ones. Once you understood the game the only limit on your power was an active desire to gimp yourself, with actual "tactics" become entirely superfluous. 

 

It's not that I think DA:I is particularly good at this as much as I think RPGs in general are bad at it. POE is probably one of the best systems out there in terms of a multitude of actually powerful spells and even that game reduces to a few OP abilities on a rinse-lather-repeat scale on anything but the troll-worthy Path of the Dammed, which turns more into RNG trolling until the mid-to-late game. 

 

I'm not saying power-gaming is required. I'm just saying power-gaming isn't necessarily opposed to RP, depending on what you are RPing. 

 

Good luck trying to beat BG2 on the hardest difficulty by only using 6-8 spells. Even on Normal difficulty that would be almost impossible. Can't faceroll BG or Pillars, though. No attack button to mash. Its all about the character in those games, and not the physical reflexes of the player.

[Rawgrim]

Just like to add to In Exile's comment on YouTube you can find DA:O night mare videos just using a few abilities. Hell you can find videos 1 hitting bosses in MMOs.

 

Those make use of certain power-builds. No need for that in DA:I. All you need is barrier and the awesome button V 2.0 and mash away.

[Auztin]

Those make use of certain power-builds. No need for that in DA:I. All you need is barrier and the awesome button V 2.0 and mash away.

DA:O, all you need is a healer.

[In Exile]

Good luck trying to beat BG2 on the hardest difficulty by only using 6-8 spells. Even on Normal difficulty that would be almost impossible. Can't faceroll BG or Pillars, though. No attack button to mash. Its all about the character in those games, and not the physical reflexes of the player.

 

I get that you feel obligated to put these old games on a pedestal, but they're not that great at requiring tactics. Especially POE. I'm currently face rolling it with a cipher using 3 spells up to Caed Nuda: The spark-whatever AOE, the AOE paralyse spell, and that 50+ dmg spell that you have to target on your own NPC to fire it off. If I'm really pushing it I'll have to rely on Aloth to cast his raw dmg base mage AOE. If it gets really hairy then I'll use consecrated ground and whatever that conic flame spell is that mages have. 

 

Higher level combat in POE doesn't require substantially more spells beyond the summons, and that's because POE on hard throws more mooks at you, pretty much like DA2 did in the base game. 

 

As to BG2, the OP sorcerer build is all you need and that's based on a limited selection of OP spells. I'd have to sit down and review BG2 to do an inventory if 8 spells is actually exhaustively all I need, but most encounters don't need much more than that to faceroll. 

 

Those make use of certain power-builds. No need for that in DA:I. All you need is barrier and the awesome button V 2.0 and mash away.

 

DA:O's power build is the same as DA:I. Let's take a mage. In DA:I it's pump ATK%, pick KE, and then spam fire mine and fade cloak. In DA:O, it's pump MAG, pick BM, cast blood wound, and spam fireball. Then you just bat clean-up with whatever direct damage ability you have left. In both cases, on nightmare.